Catherine Skinner Interview

Another interview episode for you today as Ben chats with 2016 Rio Olympics Gold Medalist in the trap shooting, Catherine Skinner. In a wide ranging chat, Catherine talks through how she got into the sport and just how important mental training is when it comes to shooting. She also takes us through her gold medal win in Rio, tells us about her special diet that helps her focus as well as revealing just what things she managed to get for free since becoming a Gold Medallist.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.

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BEN WATERWORTH: You are listening to Off The Podium, an Olympics podcast with your host today, Ben Waterworth, as you were tuned in to another one of our special episodes, an interview with an Olympian that we know you will love and enjoy as we speak to you today, Catherine Skinner, Olympic gold medallist from Rio in the women's trap. And very excited to bring this interview to you today because this was one of the very first gold medals Australia did win during the Rio Olympics. And I remember talking about this one at length with Colin and with Jared. And a particular note, of course, that added a bit of extra flavour to winning this gold, as Catherine did beat a New Zealander in order to win the gold medal, something that we do talk about throughout this interview. And it's definitely a fun interview with Catherine going over a lot of her build up into getting into the sport of shooting, the preparation that's involved, and just about the sport in general as well. And particularly also very fascinating to find out just some little things in regards to preparation for the Olympics, one of the few sports where you might be able to get away with eating things that perhaps you wouldn't in other sports. And also, the age old question that I seem to try and find out from Olympic gold medallists is whether or not they can end up getting free stuff as an Olympic champion. And Catherine by far wins that answer hands down. So, I'm gonna stop teasing this for you. I'm gonna let you listen to it. Here is my chat, our chat, Off The Podium's chat with 2016 Olympic gold medallist Catherine Skinner. Massive pleasure to continue on our interview series here on the show today with past, present, and future Olympians. And today, big pleasure to welcome another Olympic gold medallist to this program. She won the gold in Rio in 2016 in the women's trap. And we're here to speak to her about that, as well as her career in general, and the sport of shooting, too, because I, for one, am in love with this sport, and I'm always fascinated to hear a little bit more about how it works. Please welcome to the show Catherine Skinner. Catherine, thank you so much for joining us here today.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Thank you for having me.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's a pleasure, as I said, and I'm guessing now is a little bit calmer for you than, say, at least six or seven months ago and even 12 months ago, because, I mean, this time a year ago, you would have been all focused on everything to do with Rio. But I mean, is it calmer for you now, Catherine, than things have been recently? Is life kind of just slowly getting back into a process since the events of the last 12 months?

CATHERINE SKINNER: It's definitely calmer. It's hard to really prepare yourself for what you actually get with the Olympics, because there's so much pressure pre-Olympics to do well and do things properly. But then post-games, particularly with winning a medal, that was the crazy patch where three months disappeared in the blink of an eye. There's no way that you can really be prepared for it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's something that we've found out with talking to people on the show, particularly those from Rio and, as you said, the medallists. It's just getting into that life, I guess, which from now on, you will always be introduced as Olympic gold medallist Catherine Skinner. I mean, I guess that's probably not something that you don't mind hearing, though, when you are perhaps introduced at events or interviews like this. I mean, you kind of like hearing that against your name.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Definitely. It's been a long-term goal, and we've been working towards it for years. But at the same time, it does take a little bit of getting used to, because it's one of those things that, while you're striving towards it, there's always that little voice telling you that you might not make it, because it's really not that, there's not much of a difference between a medallist and Olympian, and one that just missed out. It's such a fine line and so hard to actually just get to the game. But at the same time, I'm proud of what I've done, and I'm proud of those achievements. So, yeah, I'll get to live the life.

BEN WATERWORTH: Definitely, definitely. I mean, in working towards that goal, I believe you started shooting at the age of 12. And I mean, I guess shooting isn't exactly a sport that many people are sort of clambering over at 12 years old. I mean, how do you manage to get into the sport? And was this something that you thought at a young age that perhaps this would be the sport that would take you to an Olympics if that itself was a goal of yours at that age?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Oh, at that age, it wasn't really a goal. It was one of those questions that you kind of like ask kids, you know, like, what are you going to be when you grow up? And they might answer being a fireman. But because I've always been involved in sport on, you know, because I've tried so many of them, Olympics is one of those vague goals. It was just a matter about finding the one that I was good at and shooting. I was lucky enough that my family did it. So I grew up out of the rangers. So it seems kind of natural for me to take it up or at least try it. And I just happened to be good at it. And part of the whole process was being very lucky. I came in just at the right time when they did a whole lot of junior development and talent transfer. So I got a lot more support than previous shooters before me never got. But at the same time, I'm quite happy that we've proven that the process works and we're in a lot stronger position now with our athletes. But years ago, we only had a handful of them that had been in the team, and they were the same people for every team. They were in power for about 20 years or so. So it's quite nice to see that we've actually got enough people that are shooting at that level that we've got a bit of a rotation on the teams now.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, wow, that's incredible to think it's been there, you know, sort of that period of time. I mean, that, I guess, at your age, too, around about when you were 12, I mean, this, I guess, was also coming off the back of the likes of Michael Diamond, Russell Mark, with success, you know, from Sydney and Atlanta, and then moving forward, obviously, a few years after you started in Athens with Suzy winning gold in the trap. I mean, was that kind of that period then that you're sort of talking about that we've had that core group in Australian shooting that then led the way for yourself and other new people that have kind of taken the sport forward to where we're at now?

CATHERINE SKINNER: That's exactly it. And they just realised that while we had such strong shoes with Michael and even Adam Vela and Russell Mark, that we just didn't have anyone coming up. And we went through a patch there where we didn't get as many wins as we had previously. And they were trying to work out what they were doing differently. But then they also realised that there was a big gap between those guys and the other Australian shooters. So I'm quite proud to be saying that we've bridged that gap and we've got a heap of newbies coming through, juniors that are performing very well and are very promising. And we've got a few that have already been out to get a few more medals. So it's really happy to be, well, I've kind of feel a bit weirder also being the old person that's seen that and being part of that. So it's a transition of being, you know, going from a junior to a senior, even though I've been out of the junior ranks for about six years.

BEN WATERWORTH: I can imagine sort of being in your mid-twenties feels a bit weird to be considered like the veteran of the team, I guess.

CATHERINE SKINNER: A bit of that too, because shooting spans all ages. We've got young ones that were 16 when they made the Olympic teams. But then in the same shooting team, we had someone that was in their 50s going for about his fifth or sixth Olympics. And across the world, it's much the same.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's an interesting sport that way, isn't it? It's kind of, as you said, bridging all those ages. And, you know, it's, I mean, this is potentially a sport that, you know, given that you're at the age you are now, when you've already won a gold. I mean, if you continued on for many years, I mean, you could potentially, you know, five, six Olympics. I mean, that's kind of unheard of in a lot of sports.

CATHERINE SKINNER: That's it. And I think they're kind of hoping that we're going to go on for that. But at the same time, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it just because our level of competitiveness has just gone up so much. But also, it's hard to predict what you're doing in the next four years, let alone trying to plan what I'm going to be doing in the next 40. So, we just have to wait and see what we're going on.

BEN WATERWORTH: What were some of the other sports that you tried your hand at, I guess, growing up? I mean, were there other potential sports there, Catherine, that if shooting didn't work out, you might have been going for gold in another sport in the Olympics?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Oh, I was a big fan of rowing for a season there. I don't know how much of a... how good I was, really. But I remember having the decision of going, like, I really enjoy this, but I can stop all my other sports and focus on this one and maybe make state team, or I could stay with shooting when I'm already on the World Championship team. So, you know, getting in early is one of the big motivating factors. And like most... well, there's plenty of other sports out there where you have to start early just to get the core strength and flexibility. Like, you're not going to come across a gymnast that didn't start before they were five years old. It's very hard for many sports for you to come in and learn from scratch, say, even as a teenager. So I tried rowing for a bit. I did tennis. And there was just so many sports out there that I was having a shot at. I tried softball for a bit. But shooting was the one that really stuck.

BEN WATERWORTH: And you've obviously made the right choice with it. I mean, you kind of have an Olympic gold medal in it now. So, I mean, it's kind of warranted after these years with it, I feel.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, it definitely has made a lot of questions disappear of why are you doing it? But at the same time, it's a lot of sports that you can take it as seriously as you like, or you can be a punter that comes out once in a blue moon and just has a shot. It's not like some of these other sports where you've got to maintain a certain fitness level, just prevent any sort of injury as well. We're very low on injury factor.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, and I can imagine that. Yeah, exactly. I guess at the end of the day, if maybe you hurt your trigger finger, that's maybe the only injury there. I mean, what injuries do keep shooters out of events here, Catherine? That's a good thing you raise because I don't know if, you know, you don't hear of being out of action for 12 months because of a knee reconstruction or something along those lines.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, I haven't really heard of long term injuries being a problem. Well, we're more likely to miss an event than having the flu for an injury. But it's all the injuries that I know of that have pushed people out, have come out of things unrelated to the sport, like a car accident, which could happen to anyone. But I know of lots of smaller injuries. We hit up the massage therapist quite a bit, because we get very lopsided in muscles, so it's no different than someone needing a massage, because they spent too long at the desk.

BEN WATERWORTH: So it's like RSI and those sort of those injuries like that kind of, yeah.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, and posture correction. So we're very low on that scale of things that could easily be maintained by doing some gym work. But like other people, we tend to be quite lazy. So if you don't have to do the training, you don't always do it.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's an interesting way of looking at it too, because I mean, it's also, I guess, not a sport that you can exactly just go out into your backyard and pull out a gun and start shooting things. Because, I mean, that's kind of not normal in suburban Australia, I guess. So, I mean, outside of being able to go to the shooting range whenever you get a chance, I mean, are there other training things? Because it's a very mental sport, isn't it? So, I mean, are there sort of mental preparations that you can do outside of going to the range that helps you in your shooting?

CATHERINE SKINNER: There's a lot of mental training for it. So some of it is just being in a good frame of mind before you go out to shoot. So it's a bit odd being one of the sports where you can turn around to a coach going, not feeling it. I'm having a mental health day, not coming to training. And that's kind of the framework of it. There's times where you're being lazy, and there's times where you've got to muscle through it. But at the same time, a lot of the things that I've done to improve my scores, even prior to Rio, was occasionally skipping the training day, just because I wasn't fearing it and I wasn't feeling right. And if you go and try and sort of muscle through those days and force the issue, you end up just training bad habits. But outside of just shooting the range, a lot of it's just keeping your life in balance as well. We're one of the sports where you can't just be a shooter very well, because life gets involved. And because it's so psychological and mental, life affects you. Being stressed in the home or even when I was studying, it was knowing that I had a big assessment coming up or exams, my scores would always do a dive there. And it was just because there was stress outside of shooting that was affecting it. So a lot of it's just looking after yourself and making sure that you're OK.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's such a... I mean, it's... You could use that to your advantage in so many levels, because you could be like, Mum, Dad, I'm training for the Olympics. No, I can't clean my room. It's going to stress me out. Little things like that. But I mean, all jokes aside, as you were saying, like, you know, you're studying, you've got other life matters going on, and kind of saying what you were before in terms of... It's not like other sports where, you know, externally you can see you've injured yourself. You know, it's that internal pressure and that internal, that psyche that you've got to keep going. And particularly, you know, in a high pressure event, and you're trying to, I guess, also out-psych your other competitors. I mean, this is, I guess, when a lot of people look at the sport, you know, a lot of people's attention is only honest every four years for the Olympics or the Commonwealth Games and things like that. I mean, is this kind of one of the many sort of things when you're trying to, I guess, sell the sport of shooting to people and really try to show how diverse and how tense this sport is? There's so many layers to it, I guess, that you've got to try and sell to people, rather than just we show up every couple of days and shoot some targets.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, and it's a very hard thing to actually sell when everyone's got their own idea of what sport actually is, because we're so used to defining sport about athleticism and muscle power, so being the fastest, the strongest, or doing the biggest tricks. So it's very hard to sell shooting when you're saying it's a mind game, because some of them turn around and go, then why aren't we doing chess or something at the games? I'm probably going to get in trouble at some point over this, but I feel the same way about some of the gymnastics, because when you get some machines where they're getting points on choreography, what is the difference between them being a sport and being an art form? Because we can't deny that athleticism is a ballet dancer, but they're considered art. So it comes down to finding the facet of what interests you and what motivates yourself as well, because there's people that just thrive on the whole adrenaline and now about now using going for doing the fastest or now the challenge of pushing their bodies to the limit. So there's nothing wrong with that. But then there's plenty of us where it's about the mind games and finding that little basis then. And it's a hard thing to really sell when it's something that you learn further along. Because it seems enough to introduce someone to being a runner. You just need to let them win a race, and they'll get that high winning and get the addiction. Well, shooting, because it's just about hitting that one target, you get the high when you first hit that target, but you also need to have the drive that you want to hold up perfectionism. But you want to get all of them. But at the same time, to be an Olympic-style k-target shooter, you've got to be wanting a harder challenge, because there's plenty of other shooting disciplines that are non-Olympic sports, where the targets are easier, so therefore it's easier to hit all of them. So the challenge is a bit like comparing a sprinter to a marathon runner, where they're about hitting hundreds of targets in a row and not missing a single target. Well, the Olympic discipline is, we've got our set little pool of it. It's very hard to hit a single target, but then you're after hitting all of them. So every sport's got their own little facet, and it's just finding one that fits the person. And the other side of shooting is that they're one that everyone can transfer to later in life, too. We've been called a dead end sport on the talent transfer, because they often get... Gymnasts will transfer to doing diving or things like that along the way of their career. Well, when the athletes are truly broken down, they push them to try shooting, see if that was interesting for them. So it's a bit upsetting from my perspective, because I'd really like to try some of the other stuff. But at the same time, it means that if you got injured in one sport, it's not the end of your career in sports. It might be the end of it in that one. But there's always another pathway. There's always another challenge.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's, yeah, I've never kind of thought about it that way. And that's an interesting way of kind of talking about it. And I mean, I was sort of reading some other articles and sort of interviews with you leading into this. And I mean, you're an advocate for shooting. I mean, of course you would be. You know, you've dedicated your life to this. You've gone to an Olympics. You're one of gold medal. And it's rightfully, of course, you know, you want to be able to, to, you know, really defend this sport. And I mean, this has been a sport to me, Catherine, that, you know, I mean, I've grown up, you know, loving the Olympics. And, you know, I remember in Atlanta watching Russell Mark and Michael Diamond win gold. I remember in Sydney seeing Michael Diamond win gold again. I mean, you know, Susie in Athens and keep going forward. I mean, I've always been fascinated by shooting. And it's kind of one of always these sports that I always look forward to in an Olympics or a Commonwealth Games just because, you know, it's not a sport we see every day in Australia. As I said, it's really kind of a sport we only see every two or four years in these big competitions. And the tension, I guess, involved from a spectator's viewpoint, you know, watching you in that final, just wanting you to obviously win the gold. And it's not like, you know, as you're saying, a running race where, you know, in nine seconds, the same bolt is going to be a gold medallist or not, and we're going to know how it's over. This can keep going on, and we're tense. We're on the edge of our seat. We're wanting you to hit every target. We're wanting the other competitor to miss. I mean, it's got tension and everything with it. And I'm just fascinated by the sport, and it kind of, you know, intrigues me that there are even people out there who question this as a sport, because it's great. It's a great sport.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, it's a great one there. And as you say, the tension that you hold, it's a bit like the difference between AFL and soccer, is that it's not about getting every goal. Because AFL, you get plenty of goals, plenty of points. You're on the edge about the end result. Soccer, it's one goal. So you hear them getting so psyched up about the mere misses. Shooting is very similar to me about that. Like most of the time, we'll hit the target, but at the same time, you still get those ones that miss. And there is so much pressure in there, and admittedly, with the Olympics and the Commonwealth Games, because they're such big events, you get caught up in the atmosphere of it. And the atmosphere is a big part of it. But I think one of the biggest cultural things that we've got is just because we've got so anti-gun over the years, whether it's media or just incidents. They don't have an understanding of our sport, but they just hear gun and think it's bad without actually understanding it. So, yeah, it's great to hear that I'm not the only one that's looking for the sport that we can never see any other time.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's just... I mean, I think we talked about on the show, it's one of these sports that... I mean, you could really turn this into a big, huge TV sport, if you really kind of got behind it. I mean, there seems to be this big craze within the last, what, five, six years since the introduction of 2020 cricket. We've got to make sports shorter and faster for the viewers. Let's introduce shorter tennis and shorter netball and things like this. I don't even think shooting is one of these sports you need to do that. It's exciting by itself. It's not five days' worth of cricket that you've got to shorten it down. I mean, just put trap on TV, you know, and have this tension of going on. And particularly, just like, you know, you're beating New Zealand athletes. If it's Australia versus New Zealand, we're sold already, aren't we?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Pretty much. But we've been a victim of the media influence in the recent years, too. In my shooting career of the ten years, the past six, I've shot four different final systems. So what you saw for Rio, that final system is completely different from what we last saw with Susie Balog in St. Athens.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

CATHERINE SKINNER: We've had rule changes about trying to make it more exciting for the Olympics or for viewers that don't know our sport. So I think all sports are getting that change, and some of them, it is refreshing them, but then there's others where it's getting so frustrating because they're losing sight of the intention of our sport or what the key goal is. And while you really enjoyed the tension of Australia versus New Zealand at Rio in my final, in a way I don't really like it because of how our final system goes. I wasn't the one that shot the most targets at the end of the day, I think. So out of the six of us that made the finals, because we had other shooters that were a few targets ahead, I don't know if I was the one that actually shot the most.

BEN WATERWORTH: Overall, I guess, sort of throughout the whole tournament, right?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, and because of how it's all been done, it's not coming out like that. And many of our changes are doing little things like that without actually considering what is the intent of the sport. The general gist that I've got from all the shooters is at the end of the day, we want the person that's hit the most targets to be the winner. But that's not what TV wants, because we might have hit the most targets when they weren't looking. But at the same time, there's big culture change like this. Now, we've got a shorter attention span these days. And when you know that wrestling is getting threatened of being kicked out of the Olympics, and that is one of the original sports, the Olympics is basically wrestling, or that it's the home of wrestling. When they're getting threatened of kicked out, and then you hear that they're considering pole dancing coming in, you say, what's the difference between making this the Olympics or making this X Factor? Yeah, very true. It's a fine line of keeping it relevant, but at the same time, we've really got to make that definition on, are we doing this for entertainment, or are we doing this because we want to see people strive for a goal?

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I haven't thought about it that way. It's an interesting thing. Again, we talked at length with that in terms of sports. There are sports that, of course, from an outsider's perspective, we're going to be like, well, how is that an Olympic sport? As you were saying, the likelihood of something like a pole dance, I think even cheerleading was on a roster for potential Olympic sports. I think they're introducing about 700 new sports in Tokyo. There's karate, there's surfing, there's all these new ones that are coming on board. But it's interesting how they do that, because as you said, it's like the short attention span. They want to attract younger audiences and everything. But that's why we've got things like the X Games and even little things like X Factor and things like that. I mean, the Olympics are kind of that sacred, traditional, pinnacle of sport, which, like I agree with you, wrestling. I mean, that is the most surely traditional. That and athletics, I mean, they've got to be the sacred ones that perhaps you never touch in the Olympics.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, and they're threatening about, you know, shortening some of the throwing events. Because I think, you know, shot put might have been under threat or something. And while there's always been changes that have actually made, like javelin, they used to actually spin like a hammer thrower to throw the javelin. But then they changed it because they were, you know, getting too dangerous about throwing the javelin, and they were throwing it too far. So it was landing on the track. So then that was why they started running in a straight line to try and shorten it so they weren't likely to, you know, hit an official not paying attention or a runner. But there's always changes that have had to keep up with the time. And relevance is a big one of it because back in, you know, when they first started doing the modern Olympics, we were still shooting live pigeons. So for, you know, I don't think shooting would last very long if we tried to bring that back.

BEN WATERWORTH: No, no, I can imagine that, you know, organisations like PETA would be quickly on board of that to get rid of shooting.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Exactly. And so we've always got to have that relevance. But at the same time, we need the attention. And sometimes it's money is a big driving factor because you have the 2020 cricket, but it's advertisers that are kind of driving that one. There's big money in it because there's big attention. And there's plenty of other sports that are looking at it going, well, they've changed something that was sacred to make big dollars. What can we do to try and get some of those dollars? And relevance is one of those big struggles without losing the soul of your sport. So hopefully we'll see what the next generation is going to bring. Because there's a big cycle of it. We go in those phases of keeping it traditional and going back to the old ways. But then there's always that time we just go, we have to keep it relevant, we have to update it. Or maybe it's just that we're suddenly hitting faster times. We're throwing it longer. We're shooting all of the targets, so we've got to just change it up to make it interesting and get the tension back. So sometimes it's the athletes that progress it, sometimes it's culture. So we'll see what happens.

BEN WATERWORTH: Definitely will. That's a very good way of looking at it. I mean, just on the... You mentioned previously in regards to shooting the different categories. Obviously, she said there are some which require you to shoot a lot more targets like air pistol, things like that, and then you got the trap, which obviously is your category. I mean, was there a particular thing that drew you towards trap? Was this essentially the one that you were best at or the one that you felt you were more comfortable rather than something like a rifle or an air pistol sort of event in shooting?

CATHERINE SKINNER: It was just because I started with shotguns, and I started with a different clay target event called Down The Line or DTL. And because it's the similar, it's the one that's the most similar to trap, is where I got the talent transfer across. So it was, you know, I'd been trained in it, you know, in the basics of that clay target discipline from when I was 12. But it all comes down to where you start, I suppose, might be the key way to answer the question. Because I've got, you know, one of my good friends, sadly missed out on the Rio selection, Laura Coles. Her dad was originally a rifle shooter. So she grew up around rifles, but then they came and tried clay target shooting, but they started in sporting skeet. And that was the pathway that she got into the Olympics skeet, which, even though it's still clay target and shotgun, is completely different than in, you know, the skill set, I suppose, because they've got to start gunned down, they've got delays, they're shooting the same targets repetitively. So they're even more perfectionist than traps. And then friends that are rifle shooters started with shooting the occasional bunny, or they started in rifle and stayed in rifle. It's not often that you get transfers across the different barriers. But the difference, I suppose, is that with shotgun, we've all become very specialised, where rifle shooters will be able to shoot multiple rifle events, but you don't get anyone that really goes and does a rifle event, and then a pistol event, maybe a shotgun event. They're all, you know, even though we're all shooting, we're our own little separate categories.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, and I guess it also, in each of your categories, I mean, you know, with a majority of sports, of course, when you're travelling to these events around the world, you know, you're competing against the same people, and I mean, on the grand scheme of things, while the Olympics, I guess, is the pinnacle, I mean, in essence, it's also just another event competing against the same people you have been for the last Olympic cycle. So, I mean, I can imagine you also get close to these people, you get to know these people, not just your teammates, but, you know, people from around the world. Is it a tight-knit little community when you're travelling to these events, or because they're your competitors, you kind of have to put that aside and be like, no, I've got to beat them tomorrow, I can't go out and have a drink with them the night before?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Oh, you definitely make the friendship groups from it, but it also comes down to what style of athlete you are. Like, there's always the social bunnies that are out there and know everyone. And then there's the others that are purely there just to compete. And it's a difficult one when we're spending so much time preparing for it, and sometimes it's just language barrier. And it's even competitors' cultures within their own team, because even though one of the largest teams that travels around with the shotgun is Italians, we don't know many of the Italians out of it because they've got a team culture of being very isolated and only looking after themselves. Even though there's ones there that are fluent in English, you only really get to know them at other events. That's where they don't have the head coach breathing down their neck. So you do make the friendships, but at the same time, there's some people that I've been competing against for 10 years that I don't know at all. I know their name and I know where they're from, but that's it.

BEN WATERWORTH: There you go. I mean, in the lead up to Rio, I mean, you sort of, you know, I guess really started to make a name for yourself, you know, years leading up into it, you know, doing well in the university games. Obviously, as I mentioned, competed in Glasgow in 2014. You finished fifth there. I mean, kind of sort of throughout in the years leading up to the games, did this really become the main focus was the Olympics and was something like going to the Commonwealth Games, obviously, you know, pushing towards that goal and just baby steps eventually leading into making an Olympic team?

CATHERINE SKINNER: It's definitely Olympics has always been the end goal. It's always been the big one. And the Comm Games really was an experience on it because it also, you know, it let me experience it when things went wrong. So it's all baby steps and it's all things, you know, all your experiences sum up. And I think I've said this before in other interviews about that final where people have asked me about the no birds, the targets weren't coming out, and several of the things going wrong, they're all normal, you know, all common errors. But they're things that have pulled now, that have made me fall to pieces in previous events. And because I've run the gauntlet for it, because I've been there and I've failed, I already know the worst that could possibly happen, but I've learnt from them. And that was the sum of experience that got me across the line for that gold medal. So all of these other events, even though I've had some successes and some failures on them, they've all been the experience that's led up to this point. Because I think London Olympics was the first one that I really had a crack at, and thought that I had a chance at making the team. But post that, I looked back at it and thought I really wasn't ready for it. I would have crumbled under the pressure for the Olympics, because you have so much more attention on it, there's so much pressure on you to perform. And I just wouldn't, I wasn't ready for it. I thought I was ready in that sort of naive teenager way, but honestly, I just really wasn't ready for it as a competitor either. In that four year cycle, I've now come so much further.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, and kind of going back to what you're saying about the whole mental preparation for your sport as well. And I guess, I mean, the interesting thing which I find with like a sport like shooting and that, which as I was saying, you know, we sort of only the focus really goes on it. You know, media Australia sort of com games and Olympics, you know, in say previewing the Olympics and people are talking about these are our medal chances, you know, we're going to win 300 in the pool, you know, here's all this happening here, there and everywhere. You know, it's not like shootings often talked up that much, unless we've got like a raging gold medal favourite. And it's kind of like once you win the gold, you know, a lot of the media articles the next day are like, you know, three days ago, you'd never heard of Catherine Skinner, you know, and all these sort of things. And now she's a gold medallist. I mean, going into this kind of, I guess, with not going in potentially as a gold medal favourite, you say to yourself about obviously the pressure of the Olympics, but given that, I guess, unknown factor, particularly, say, from Australia, does that kind of help it in a way that you can clear your mind? Whereas, say, in four years' time in Tokyo, not trying to put the pressure on you, Catherine, but you're going in as the reigning champion. So the focus is going to be a little bit different as it was going into Rio.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Going into Tokyo, it's going to be a very different preparation cycle for it. And I've always really reveled in being the dark horse of being that unknown factor that came up out of nowhere. And even when I got well known in the shooting circle for being a good shot, I would still have really enjoyed being that she's not shooting well. Oh, hang on, she's just did the top score. So shooting is one of those lines you really can't predict. It's not like Usain Bolt where we can look at him and go, he's by far the fastest. He's the favourite. A real reigning champion one day can be really struggling to shoot a single target the next day. And it's such a fine line because I've worked out now that out of a qualifying event of 75 targets, I've worked out that it's three target increments between a good day, an average day, and a bad day for me. So 72 plus, good day. In 72 to 69, average. Below 69, not a great day. Three targets.

BEN WATERWORTH: That fine line. Wow, that's not much at all.

CATHERINE SKINNER: And 72 plus is usually what it takes to be top six. So that's where we sort of stand where, you know, you can't really be a favourite for them, because anyone can come up and get into that top six. And when you're in that top six, everything's set to zero again. So then you're deciding, you know, who's going to win over another 15 targets. We were under that final system that's now been scrapped. So it's such a fine line where we couldn't predict who was going to win. And the times that are in good form and have historically been strong performers, but you never know what they're going to do on the day. And even going into an event with people saying that you're a favourite, that puts a new spin on the pressure too about having that in the back of your mind. When it's something you're not used to, it can be really negative. But a bit like what I was saying before, how everyone's got their own little preparations and how they operate during an event, pressure like that feeds into different people. Some people that really thrive off it, and they keep on performing really well when they know that they're the favourite or they know that they've got everyone backing them. And then there's others that just crumble on the pressure. And I personally, I don't like that attention prior to an event. I'd rather be congratulated for my results afterwards rather than have all this hype over something that isn't definite.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. And it's fascinating kind of hearing you talking about those fine lines and those scores. I mean, even just looking at the qualification round in Rio, the fact that, I mean, obviously you got in on the shootoff, but I mean, even then you've only shot a 67. I mean, Letitia's only shot a 70. So kind of going on those numbers where you were saying like 69 and under is bad. And nearly everyone in that qualification round got that. So I mean, that fine line you're talking about, isn't it?

CATHERINE SKINNER: It literally was conditional. There's been events that I've seen that where 66 got you into the final. Because we are shooting in the same conditions. And over in Rio, we had gale force winds come through in the middle of the day, in the middle of our qualifying. So a lot of us missed a lot of targets in that patch. So there is conditions to it, but that is generally in most conditions, or most events that we're at in most conditions, that's the level we're shooting. And, you know, we've still got to play the day. I've heard of stories. I think it was at prior Olympics, as 63 made the final. Not for it that low. I think that might have been Athens, actually, but it was town in Gale. So again, weather conditions play a part of it, but also sometimes it's just pressure. The fact that when we don't have that much experience dealing with media and public attention, it does get to us because you do want to have situation normal at such a big event, but it's hard to do when you've got cameras following you around or even just the hype where you've got a lot of media coming after you, asking about your preparation. Well, if you're used to having absolutely no one paying attention to you, that question in itself kind of disturbs the what is normal. Catch 22, because we've got to talk to media for profile and play the game, because that's part of being a professional athlete, and it's part of our role as spokespeople for our sport and to promote it, or even just get the message out of whatever we're doing. Sponsors are a big indicator or a big pressure for us to keep talking to the media, since that's what they're after. But at the same time, it's a balancing act, because how much of it is being a sporting celebrity or being a professional athlete. And everyone sort of sits somewhere on that scale of grey. There are some that really thrive off being a celebrity and have egos huger than cities. And then there's others that have got incredible performances, but they just say, thank you very much. That's another one on the wall. I'll see you next year.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's interesting. And also, like you're talking with that pressure and everything that goes with it in such this massive event, the Olympics, it is the biggest event I guess you can have. And it's kind of the format that you're talking about as well. As I said, you had to go into a shoot-off against Canada's Cynthia Meyer just to make the final. So, I mean, I can imagine that, you know, you're trying to qualify for a final. You get to a point where you've got to get into a shoot-off to make that final. You make it. I mean, I can't imagine the pressure that's then building with everything. But, I mean, I guess you mentioned before, though, that based on past experiences and knowing where you had been in prior events, I'm guessing that really helped you moving then into the final, that you can clear your mind. You've gone through that extra pressure step of a shoot-off. So now it's like, operation reset. I've got to now simply focus on the new goal. I've got five other ladies I've got to beat at this point. Is that kind of how you worked into that after then eventually getting into that final?

CATHERINE SKINNER: I was actually more nervous during that shoot-off than I was in the final for it. I think my brother mentioned that he's got a brilliant shot of when I won that shoot-off where I was doubled over. They thought that I was going to be sick, but that was just the relief because so much of it is getting into that final. And then whatever you do in that final, it's kind of irrelevant because you're only against those other people. And anything can happen in that group. You might have someone shoot all of them, or all six of us might shoot all of the targets, but you've got to be in it to win it. And it's such a hard thing to gauge such a small patch of time. But once you're in the final, it is system reset. You can forget about what you did on the rest of the day. And it's about just shooting that one target, and you focus on the process. And that in itself is a really hard thing to do, because they keep on bringing in new things to make it more difficult. So like we've got new time delays. We've got time restrictions. So I've got 12 seconds from when the person beside me shoots their target before I've got a call mine. And if I go longer than that 12 targets, it's an automatic lost target. They have music playing behind us now. They have commentators where we can actually hear where we're ranking in the results, because normally when we're shooting, we don't look at the scoreboard until we've all finished our round. But now that we're seeing a running total plays a part of it, there's all sorts of pressures that you've had to learn how to deal with and cope with. And as I was saying before, there are things that have tripped me up at other events. So now by learning from those experiences, I was able to get across those lines. And that day was my day.

BEN WATERWORTH: And did you feel that confidence in the finals going into it that you, I mean, you've got a 50% chance at a medal, I guess, if you even look at it, there's six of you, three of you, going to walk away with a medal. But did you go into that, just really focus on the fact that I've got a real shot, and I guess not even just at a medal, you want the gold. So were you that confident at that point of the tournament?

CATHERINE SKINNER: To be honest, I was off in Fairyland during that final, because I've been in that real focused zone and formed the peonies. So I went out there just going, all right, let's just see what I can do. And when things were starting to go wrong in that final, like no birds, and the microphones weren't working that well for me, I do remember having this moment of going, oh no, it's all about to go terribly wrong. All right, just do what you can and smile for the cameras. Just have a bit of fun out there, and focus on the one target. And then when I looked up and got told I was in the gold medal match, I had this moment of going, oh wow, that worked. Hang on, I've got an Olympic medal. Wait, don't think about that. Just zone out and focus on the process. And that's why it was such a big shock after I shot that last target, because I was somewhere else in my head. I hadn't actually thought that, hang on, I'm shooting for a gold medal, or shooting for an Olympic medal. And it all just sunk in after that moment of going, no, that's the last one. I'm one ahead. I just won. And the rest was a big blur, because it's such a big enormous thing to hit. But it's like running that 10 second race. You know, for me, it was just the one target snapshot.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's such a fascinating, and this is why I love chatting to people like yourself, Catherine, and just athletes and Olympic athletes in general, because I guess a longstanding dream of mine was to always just be an Olympian, and clearly never going to happen unless I turn to curling or something like that. You know, that's my dream perhaps. Or maybe you can get me into shooting. I mean, I'm still, I guess, young. I'm only 29. That can work, couldn't it?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yep, definitely. One of the shooters that won, I think he was in double trap, was 52.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, there you go.

CATHERINE SKINNER: So he definitely got a shot, and funny you brought up curling, because some of the people have been asking me whether I go try biathlon, because now I've got a Summer Olympic medal. Clearly, I need to go try and get a winter Olympic one. So far, curling is about the only one that we've settled on.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, yeah, I go for curling too, because I remember several years ago, when I was on another radio show, we actually tracked down the president of the Australian Curling Federation, because there's actually a thing with that. And he was mentioning there's literally about 30 people in the entire country that compete in curling. So, I mean, if you think four or five or six make a team, nearly a quarter of the people who play this sport in this country can make the national team. And Australia's never been at the Olympics in curling, but we narrowly missed out against New Zealand one year. So just by the odds itself, I kind of worked out the chance as well. Probably maybe curling based on athletic ability and chances of making an Olympics. So there you go, Catherine. If you don't make biathlon, want to try the winter Olympics, we can be on the same curling team, perhaps. But I mean, I guess what I was trying to say, it's like I've always kind of thought mentally that when it comes to a sport in the Olympics where there's such thing as a gold medal match, and as you were kind of saying, like you make that shoot off and no matter what, you're going to win an Olympic medal. And of course, you're in that position where you are so close to a gold medal, you're going to go for gold. But I've always thought if I made one of those things, I'm still going to be satisfied losing in a way because you've walked away with a medal. And it's kind of interesting in that aspect what you were saying with that because I could imagine that, as you said, there is that mentality. But once you're in that gold medal match, and then you've realised that you've won it, you've come from behind, you've beaten Natalie, you've got it. I just can't imagine what takes over you from thinking, you know, an hour ago, oh, at least I might win a medal too, all of a sudden, whoa, I've actually got the gold. I mean, that's obviously a feeling you couldn't even describe. I guess even to this day, what, seven months later.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, everyone's had that moment where their mind's gone blank. That was my moment for it. And I've been blasted from the sponsors where they were expecting the big celebration, and instead I turned around and sort of gave them a what just happened look. But everyone reacts differently, and that was my moment. And at the same time, that is the zone that we've all been training towards, striving for, where you get that moment where everything clicks after the results are in. You can only focus on what you've had the progress that you've got or the things that you can control, and you can't control what everyone else is doing. So I was just very lucky to be ahead for Natalie to miss the target later in the round to let me get ahead. But that's the sport. You can't beat someone that doesn't miss.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's one of those weird ones, isn't it, where it's like, I mean, I know I was watching it live, so it's kind of like this weird thing where, you know, I'm rooting for you to hit the targets, but I'm also rooting for Natalie to miss the targets. And it's kind of one of those fine line sports where you feel bad for rooting against someone to do bad, but you kind of have to. And I guess as an athlete yourself, you know, going back to this sort of the friendship thing and knowing these people, I mean, I don't know your relationship with Natalie, but I guess it's kind of that weird thing, isn't it, where you're like, oh, come on, please miss, please miss.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, you do feel a little dirty after that, but at the same time, it's part of the sport. And where you have the cricketers, they're famous for doing the sledging, and they'll be good friends off the field, but they'll be giving each other as much hell as they can on the field. It's competition. Now, your fight on the field is only within the rules, then it's all fine. It's just sport. Everyone gets competitive. At the same time, I still remember sending Mother down to watch for certain people, telling her to say the evil words, going, Oh, isn't she shooting well? Classically, as soon as you said that this person's gonna win, is when they start missing targets.

BEN WATERWORTH: You jinx them. You jinx them. I like that. To reverse sledging.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Professionally, we're all very much a skill set, but we're very superstitious too.

BEN WATERWORTH: Is there any ever sledging, like, in between rounds? Or is that what you were saying? Instead of just walking past someone going, you're totally gonna miss the next target, you're doing the opposite. You're shooting so well, Natalie. You're gonna hit the next target.

CATHERINE SKINNER: In between our qualifying rounds, there's definitely a bit of sledging and a bit of, no, a bit of talk, but it's very frowned upon as well.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

CATHERINE SKINNER: It's one of those sports that's very hard to tell what is malicious or what is, you know, genuine encouragement, because we've all been there where something very positive has come out and it just felt slimy. So mind games is one of those things that just we try, we really strive not to do. So more often than not, you just don't end up talking to that person because you don't know where they're at and what they're doing in their preparation. But Natalie, we've had a long history with her. She's always come over to Australia for part of the New Zealand selections and also just experience and everything else because there's not very much competition for her over in New Zealand, just for facilities. So we've got a long-standing history for it. So I remember having the thought of going, Yay, we've got Oceania in here. I couldn't wait for our event to go over so we can turn around and start giving it to the Europeans who have been campaigning to take the Oceania quota office. There's a bit of politics in it, and so on one hand, Natalie's kind of an adopted Australian, as much as she's a Kiwi. But we do look out for her, and she's the next person that, outside of Australia getting the medal, she's the next one that I'd be barracking for.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, we were talking about it a lot on the show, actually, because we were saying, your gold had more meaning as well, given that you actually prevented New Zealand from winning their first gold medal. So we were looking at it from really a stress. And I guess deep down, I'm sure, did you feel a little bit of that there, Catherine? Oh, well, at least New Zealand didn't get a gold.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yes, I definitely was feeling it. It was a bad couple of days for them, particularly when we had the rugby servants beat them. Yes, yes. I think the next day. Yes.

BEN WATERWORTH: We love New Zealand, deep down. Yes, exactly. How long, and again, going back to my longstanding dream of being an Olympian, you know, again, if I won a bronze, I would just be, you know, wearing that medal forever. I would never take it off. I mean, did you just keep that medal on? Are you wearing it right now, Pats? Have you taken it off in the last seven months?

CATHERINE SKINNER: No, I've definitely taken it off. Over in Rio, I had it off because of security reasons. They, now, when I had it out for media, it was around my neck. I had a firm grip on that lanyard, but it wasn't going anywhere that I couldn't see it. But most of the time, it's been over there, it was in a safe that they brought over specifically for the medals. Just because things had been going missing earlier in this day, and you don't quite trust people to not nick them, because, well, third world country and all. Yeah. So there was a bit of a security question there. And then when I got back to Australia, you don't want to wear it too long, because the medal is very heavy. You know, you think that it... Now, I think I've weighed it, and it's about 500 grams. So having that around your neck, like the lanyards are all pretty and wide, but they're not... They need a little bit more padding. Otherwise, I'll have a really, really pronounced stoop.

BEN WATERWORTH: Going back to what you're saying about the sort of, you know, the muscles and everything, and the massaging is not just for shooting now, it's for wearing a gold medal a lot.

CATHERINE SKINNER: I definitely need my neck cracked a few more times.

BEN WATERWORTH: So what do you do? I mean, I always find it fascinating talking to Olympic medallists because so many people just say, oh, it's just in the sock drawer, or, oh, it's just in the cupboard. I only get it out when I go to a school and give a talk. I mean, again, I would have it, like, as soon as you walk in my house, there's a shrine to it. Everybody look at my bronze medal that I won in curling. Like, seriously, get down to it and appreciate it. What do you do with it?

CATHERINE SKINNER: I'm still very much, it's in the sock drawer. It's currently wrapped up on my desk in front of me. Part of it, also just what you're up to. Like, I can't put it into the shrine just yet, because I've still got so many functions where they say, can you bring the medal? Like, everyone wants to see it and touch it and hold it. So, it's doing its yards as much as I am. But I plan, well, after I won the medal, we've got this family. My grandfather was a copper smith, and he built these bookshelves that we've never actually put together and had the wood done for the insets and things like that. So after I won the medal, dad finally said, well, instead of turning one of these into a bookshelf, maybe we should do it into a trophy cabinet.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's a good idea.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Now we've got something well worth locking up and putting on display.

BEN WATERWORTH: Very much so.

CATHERINE SKINNER: And he says that, as I think one of the bookcases we did have fixed up, it has a bit of a slant because I've got all these Australia Cup medals and chess Grand Prix medals all looped on on one side, and everything's kind of tilted one way.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right. Perfect. Perfect excuse there now. Definitely to do that. Have you tried to get free stuff from it though, Catherine? Like, I mean, people say, like, wear it around your neck, you get into free to things, or you'll get a free here, there. I mean, have you at least tried to exploit the advantages of being an Olympic gold medallist?

CATHERINE SKINNER: I got some free maccas.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow.

CATHERINE SKINNER: I'm terrible at organizing parties, so a friend of mine organized it, and she decided that in honour of our record line in the Olympic Village, because if you weren't aware of it, there was a 40-minute wait on average for the McDonald's. In this new village.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow.

CATHERINE SKINNER: 40 minutes. And she decided that that's performance food. And we had a party that was Olympic themed for it. So she went and got organized that we have this big spread of maccas. So when she went to pick up the order, the guy behind the counter said, if she can get here before my shift ends at X time, I'll give her whatever she wants. Well, when we found that out, I was quite drunk, and it would be, right, who wants what? Who's still good to drive? So we've got a couple of McFlurries and apple pies out of it that he placed when I walked in, because I was in full uniform for it too.

BEN WATERWORTH: So was this in Rio or was this in Australia?

CATHERINE SKINNER: This was in Australia.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's awesome. I'm so glad you said that, because it seems to be a case that people are like, oh no, no, I'm too, you know, I couldn't do that. But that's the best answer I've ever had, because I think that that's something you deserve. You've won Olympic gold. I mean, free Mac, is that standard, surely?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Well, yes. For me, it sounded like a bet. Originally, I heard that it was the manager that told her that, but turned out it was someone that was working the counter.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

CATHERINE SKINNER: So, he paid up. So, he was very fair on that one.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic.

CATHERINE SKINNER: He made a bet and he got called out on it. He paid up.

BEN WATERWORTH: That is amazing. That guy is- he's an Olympic gold medallist in himself. That is awesome.

CATHERINE SKINNER: When someone makes a bet, there's nothing more disappointing when you hear people that make bets that don't hold themselves to it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly.

CATHERINE SKINNER: And there's no better marketing than people getting called out on something, but still sticking to their words. This is a bit famous, but one of our ammunition companies said that he does pay $10,000 to anyone that broke a thousand targets at one of the nationals in a different clay target event. To give you a rundown, I think it's maybe been done once before in the history of those nationals. Six people did it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, six people.

CATHERINE SKINNER: And he paid up. Five or six people did it. While it had been unheard of, he paid up. So how about that for marketing?

BEN WATERWORTH: That's all. I mean, that spurs you on to do better as well, doesn't it? I mean, it's only been once before, and then six people do it just to the chance of some money. I mean, wow, gee. This is why people need to get more into shooting. Look at this. There's all these things going on that people don't know about. Come on.

CATHERINE SKINNER: There's so many little things going on within the sports, and we're not the only ones. I mean, I only really know the shooting. Another good one is, I think it's the Paw Paw Club, or it's the Palm Tree Club. So the shooters wear this little badge on their jackets, and it's basically making them personally accountable for what they do. By being part of this club, if they miss their first target on the day or the last target of an event by being clean, they've got to donate $5 or $10 to the Royal Flying Doctors. And it's things like that that kick over. The only thing that's holding them accountable is the fact that they wear that badge and other people are watching. But at the same time, we've got Culture Robert, and that's been going on for years. So who knows how many thousands of dollars has been donated to it. But it's something that we did.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, and it's that bonus incentive that you're obviously helping out a good cause at the same time, and you ultimately don't want to miss, but, you know, for the fact that...

CATHERINE SKINNER: But the first target and the last target are the most frustrating targets of the whole lot. So you don't want to miss, but at the same time, something good comes out of it if you do. And at the same time, the other side is it gives ammunition to plenty of other people to sledge you later. One of the reasons we don't like missing those targets is that they're the ones that people just hammer you for.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's crazy. One thing I want to quickly say before we wrap it up, Catherine, I mean, I'm glad you brought up McDonald's. You brought up this great story, one of the best we've had so far in the show. But I also read that in other interviews you gave out that your food of choice is ice cream. You've eaten whole tubs of Ben and Gerry's ice creams before events, and I think you couldn't find it in Rio, so you went out and got a McFlurry. I mean, is this kind of the, again, going back to what we were saying about shooting and its benefits, that you can go out and just gorge on ice cream? And does this help you? Is this ice cream like the Catherine Skinner food of choice for winning Olympic gold medal?

CATHERINE SKINNER: Well, I'll say that because it means that I've got license to do it again. But I think it comes back to a bit of superstition because everyone's got their little pet routine. For me, it happened to be ice cream, and it was purely because that was what I had for dinner the night before I did my personal best. So, the trick is that you try and recreate whatever it was that you did. Well, I'm deciding it's ice cream. That was the different factor. I've got friends that are a bit more healthily inclined that swear by having a salmon dinner. They have grilled salmon and the salad. That's their meal to go to before an event. And I'm sure that there's plenty of other athletes that do funny little things, whether it's just that they practise yoga, or they make sure that they have a run before it. Maybe it's just that they don't shower, or they wear those lucky pair of undies that haven't been washed in months.

BEN WATERWORTH: You don't want to be next to them. You don't want to be next to them when you're shooting.

CATHERINE SKINNER: No, I was downwind of Daniel Rappacoli's rainbow socks.

BEN WATERWORTH: Again, I'm liking these sports where it's OK to eat a tub of ice cream. I mean, again, I can imagine curling. I mean, you're in ice anyway. I'm sure ice cream is there and it's easy to do.

CATHERINE SKINNER: That's one of the factors that I like about curling, because I can also see that during training, we can totally have the beast on the side of the wrist, just waiting, a little bit like Paul.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. And it would be very... It's almost like Paul, isn't it? Because it's very similar. I like your thinking here. This is the future curling prospects of Catherine Skinner. I know Yana Pitman was our first dual winter Summer Olympian, but I think you might be the second and our first ever dual medallist in both Summer and Winter Olympics.

CATHERINE SKINNER: And it also breaks up the cycle there, where I won't... I don't have a four year cycle of shooting. I've got a two year cycle of shooting and a two year cycle of curling. So it just keeps the variety going for the years.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep, I see it working.

CATHERINE SKINNER: The other thing is that someone pointed out, is that finally I'll have clean floors. I'll have to train and all of that sweeping.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, the benefits, going back to what you were saying about post-careers in different sports, at least the transfer with curling, is that you're always going to have clean floors. That's perfect. We've learned a lot here. This has been fun. Catherine, thank you so much. Best of luck for everything moving forward. Obviously, Commonwealth Games next year, Tokyo 2020, everything else that comes your way. And for sure, I look forward to joining you on an Olympic curling team perhaps in, I don't know, 2026 or 2030 or something along those lines.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Yeah, I'll definitely let you know. I'm slowly building up a team here, so that 30 people doing curling won't suddenly boom into 50.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, exactly. We're starting a trend. It's the Catherine Skinner effect, curling taking over Australia.

CATHERINE SKINNER: Why not? Sounds like a fun one. Well, thank you very much for having me.

BEN WATERWORTH: An absolute delight to chat to Catherine, and we wish her all the best of luck heading into the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games in 2018, and of course, moving forward then to the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. And we have more of these interviews still to come. Myself have some more up and coming, including a very exciting chat that I have with a bit of a childhood hero of mine, I guess you could say is Ali Stegel, Australia's first ever individual Winter Olympic medallist. She won bronze in the slalom in Nagano back in 1998. And it's definitely a fun chat, and we're looking forward to bringing that to you. And we also have some more coming up, some more Canadian ones coming your way with Colin. He's been busy troweling the entire country of Canada, basically finding people who have been to the Olympics and who are also looking towards the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang. So I look forward to those. And we'll also be bringing you some special interviews in sort of interviews that I've done in the past throughout various other shows that I've been involved in. For those, I guess, long-term listeners of My Voice was involved for over a decade in a little radio show in Hobart called The Brink. And over the course of that decade, we interviewed several Olympic athletes. And we're gonna sort of bring a sort of a flashback series to you where I'm gonna get these out of the vault and bring these to you. My chats with former Olympians, you know, past greats, people who went on to further success. And they're a lot of fun. And we hope that you will enjoy those. So stay tuned to those. Of course, you can subscribe to us on iTunes. Easiest way, remember to rate us while you're on there. Subscribe, as I said, leave us feedback. And if you don't use iTunes, other services, servers, we will be putting up more on those that are available as well. And easiest way to stay up to date with what's happening is on Facebook, Off The Podium Podcast. Just search for us on there and you will be able to stay up to date with what's going on. And we are, of course, hoping to get the entire gang back together, Colin, myself, and Jared, all on the line all at once. You heard my voice, you heard Colin's, you missed Jared's, I missed Jared's voice, Colin's missed Jared's voice, you missed Jared's voice, everyone does. So we're all gonna get together very soon and come together for a bit of a preview episode, I guess, of Pyeongchang 2018, or just more of a get together and just a bit of a chat about how things are going and the lead up to it, obviously. We're looking at doing something perhaps in the Commonwealth Games as well here in Australia. So that will come after Pyeongchang and a bit of Commonwealth Games news, of course, recently, with Durban being stripped of the 2022 games. So perhaps there's some discussion there. Wim Flom, maybe, putting their hand up for the Commonwealth Games. Have to fight it out with Hobart. We'll have to wait and see. But we appreciate your support, listening to us here on Off The Podium. More great interviews coming your way, as I mentioned. And once again, big thanks to Catherine Skinner for her time on the show. But until next time, we speak on Off The Podium. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll speak to you next time.