Steven Bradbury Interview (Brink Vault)

Another 'vault' interview from our parent show The Brink today as we chat with the first ever Winter Olympic Gold Medallist from Australia, Steven Bradbury. In this 2009 chat, Steven takes us through is career as well as going over that iconic moment from Salt Lake City in 2002 which still stands out today as one of the greatest moments in the history of the Olympic Games.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.

BEN WATERWORTH: Welcome once again to Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast. As we continue our vault interview series, I guess we're calling them of former Olympians that appeared on one of the, I guess the parent shows of this podcast, The Brink, my former radio show that I hosted for about 11 years in Hobart, on Edge Radio in Hobart, and continues to this day as a podcast download by iTunes if you still wish to find it. But throughout those numerous years on air, I did get the pleasure of interviewing several Olympians, several people involved in the Olympics, and several people who just have a story related to the Olympics. One such person, Steven Bradbury, the name synonymous with glory and achievement in this country because, of course, he became Australia's very first ever Winter Olympic gold medallist, 2002 Salt Lake Olympics. And if I had to rank my top five, top ten sporting moments I've ever witnessed in my entire life, it's got to be in there. For those who don't know the story, you've been living under a rock. Well, you're not Australian, clearly. Basically, Steven made the final in the short track speed skating in the 1,000 metres and pretty much just hung back. He was in his final Olympics, you know, kind of made it into the final through various circumstances. And pretty much everyone fell over in the final corner, leading him to win his gold medal. And if you think it's just that simple, it's a case of that's all that happened. I mean, there's a lot more inspiration to Steven's story. I've had the pleasure of reading his autobiography and certainly is a lot more than simply being a lucky man when it comes to the gold medal that he won. Of course, he was, should also mention, a member of the first ever Winter Olympic medal by an Australian, by Australia in general, winning back in Lillehammer the short track relay. He was a member of that team as well. So he's also up there as equal greatest Winter Olympic athlete in terms of medals won. So plenty to talk about. And this was back from 2009. So this interview is eight years old now, but really his story hasn't changed a lot. You might just hear us talking a little bit about Vancouver. And you'll be thinking, well hang on a minute, that was a while ago, but there you go. And as I mentioned in our Jane Savile chat, there are of course some strange questions at the end. You'll be thinking, what the hell is he asking about folding toilet paper? It was a brink thing. You'll get used to these as we keep going along. So I'm going to shut up, and you'll listen to Steven Bradbury.

BEN WATERWORTH: We're extremely honoured to have our next guest here on The Brink. He was a member of the 5,000-metre short track speed skating relay team that claimed Australia's first ever Winter Olympic medal in 1994, and became the first ever Australian Winter Olympic gold medallist in 2002 after his iconic last man standing victory in the 1,000 metres. He's also been honoured with the Order of Australia for his contribution to short track speed skating, as well as being named one of Australia's 100 Greatest Olympians. Please welcome to The Brink, Steven Bradbury. Steven, thank you very much for your time today.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Too easy, how you doing?

BEN WATERWORTH: Doing fantastic. Steven, how about yourself?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, it's quite balmy in Queensland here today.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's nice. It's nice and getting a bit warmer here in Hobart. I'm sure we're not as hot as you guys are out there at the moment.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Definitely not. No, I think we're looking at about 35 today.

BEN WATERWORTH: We'll be lucky to reach 30, but for us, that's a nice hot day. I'm sure you would be though, being a speed skater, you'd be used to a bit of the cold weather though, wouldn't you?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, well, I've been inside for eight years or so now. I did spend most of my life going from winter to winter, so the moment I retired, I've been enjoying summers most definitely.

BEN WATERWORTH: Sounds good to me. Now, what originally made you want to get into the sport of short track speed skating?

STEVEN BRADBURY: My dad used to be with the national champ a couple of times in the mid-60s here in Australia. That's kind of as far as the sport went back then, so he never got to really see where he sat internationally, but he got me into it as a youngster, and yeah, I suppose had a bit of talent as a kid, and was able to save off some of those things that a lot of athletes don't fulfil their dreams through, you know, alcohol, girl, that sort of thing when you get into your early teens. And yeah, was able to kind of make the world championship team when I was 15 and see the sport globally, and took it from there.

BEN WATERWORTH: Was there a reason why you chose short track over long track? Was your dad into short track more so than the long track?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Well, we don't actually have any long track rinks in Australia. Short track is a 400-metre ice rink, like an athletics oval, and you actually race against the clock rather than against other skaters, so the fastest time wins. Short track is on a normal size rink where they would play ice hockey or where you'd go general skating. So one lap is 111 metres, and you're actually racing packs on the same track. So it's four skaters in a race. If you finish first or second in your race, you move through to the next round of the competition till you get to the finals and you figure out the medals. So I considered going long track a couple of times in my career because my body shape was probably more suited to long track than short track, being one of the biggie guys on the ice in short track. But I would have had to move over to long track, didn't want to do that.

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you think that considering that you're mentioning that we don't have a long track skating rink in Australia, do you think that's something that maybe in the future they'll consider or do you think we're just focused on the short track?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Oh, long track rink is a big call to build in Australia. They have massive, massive facilities. You know, you think the size of an athletics track and you've got to build that out of ice and realistically put a roof over it. I don't think it's dollars and cents are gonna stack up to build one of those in Australia. They do have a fantastic facility that's almost complete, a dual ice rink surface at Docklands in Melbourne, which is going to be the centre for Australian ice sports with the National Short Track Programme. We'll be shifting from Brisbane to Melbourne. It's due to open in about two months' time. So they're hoping to get it open just before the Winter Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you think that will then increase the chances of, say, Australia getting more success when it comes to the Winter Olympics?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Well, it definitely will in short track. I mean, we have a good result in short track over the years, but those rinks being built, and hopefully there'll be some funding for development of the sport. So we should be able to target maybe an eight-year plan and hopefully have some new skaters coming into the sport that will compete for us at the Olympics in 2018.

BEN WATERWORTH: Was it a difficult sport to get established in, considering Australia isn't generally known for our winter sports?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, it's certainly not mainstream, that's for sure. It's not gonna be a sport that takes up a lot of television time in Australia anytime soon. It hits pretty hard every time the Winter Olympics is on every four years, and it is an exciting sport. It's a sport that, you know, it's got the element of danger, it's fast, and you have to be strong, you have to be fit. And it combines all the elements of sport that a human being needs to get good at to succeed in. It's not just about being really endurance-based fit. It's not just about being super strong, like a weightlifter. You know, you gotta have a supreme mix of everything, but probably one of the key ingredients is lactic acid tolerance, being able to cope with that pain bit up in your muscles and not slow down. And that's probably the key ingredient in short track.

BEN WATERWORTH: Lactic acid tolerance, that's a terminology I don't think I've ever heard before, Steven. I'm sure if you could promote that well enough, you could get more kids involved, promote the danger aspect you're saying, the excitingness, and then it could be prime time TV action in eight year plan.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, well, it's a good television sport. Unfortunately, the speed doesn't quite cross over. I mean, you do 55 kilometres an hour, which is standing next to the barrier at the ice rink, and a guy goes past you doing 55 Ks an hour, it just looks insanely fast. And when you hit the barrier doing over 50 Ks an hour and you stop, that's fairly exciting to watch as well.

BEN WATERWORTH: I can see why they have the barriers there.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, well, they've had it. Television doesn't quite do it justice, but even still, as a TV sport, confined in such a small arena with the crowd being right on top of it, the atmosphere at the Olympics just blows your mind, it's incredible.

BEN WATERWORTH: And that was always your goal, to reach the Olympics?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Once I made the national team when I was 15, yeah, I wanted to make the Olympics and see if I could be the best in the world.

BEN WATERWORTH: And you got that chance, I suppose, in 2002, of course, with your gold medal. Now, of course, back in the early 90s, Australia did win the world championship in 1991. Did you feel disappointed being listed as a reserve for the 1992 Olympics?

STEVEN BRADBURY: I was actually part of the team in 91, when we won the world championship, and had some very good form leading into the 1992 Winter Olympics, which was my first. That was about a month or two before the games, and I got a bit of a knee injury, and I started messing with my equipment. You know, your blades are actually bent, offset, angled, everything is turned, is geared towards turning left. And it is an ask to get your equipment set up properly. And back then, that ask wasn't as refined as well as what it is now. And I just couldn't find that feel, and basically lost the plot in the lead up to the Winter Olympics, and ended up sitting on the sidelines of the reserve, which was very disappointing, especially as we were the favourites to win the relay, being the reigning world champions. And it was even more disappointing to see Richard Nizelski, who was arguably our strongest skater at the time, kick one of the blocks and fall down, and we didn't get a medal there, but we were able to come back at the next Winter Olympics and get that bronze medal you spoke of in the lead up, Australia's first Winter Olympic medal.

BEN WATERWORTH: And that must have been a fantastic feeling to know that you're part of history, and you'll always go down as being part of that team that claimed Australia's first Winter Olympic medal.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, it was pretty cool. That was our goal. We knew that we were one of the strongest three relay teams in the world, and in some ways, a little disappointed that we only got the bronze. But being that we were able to take the monkey off the back, so to speak, I mean, there had been a lot of contenders over the years in Australian winter sports that had possible chances to get medals. Danny Carr and Colin Coates in long track speed skating were probably two of the names that could have got it in the past, but didn't. But we were able to do that, and that was an incredible moment to share with your teammates. And the nation was gripped by short track speed skating for five minutes in 1994.

BEN WATERWORTH: Better five minutes than none at all then, Steven. Give it eight years later, and I suppose we got a bit more gripped with that. Now, in the between when you won the medal in 1994, and of course when you were included with the gold medal in 2002, you suffered a couple of serious injuries in your career, including getting sliced in the leg and also breaking your neck. After those injuries, were there any doubts in your mind? Did you think that's it? You're never gonna be skating again?

STEVEN BRADBURY: When I got my leg cut open, that was an extremely serious injury. I had six litres of blood, and I lost four of them on the ice in about 60 seconds. It's funny, you know, you learn a lot about yourself when you're put in a life and death situation like that one. And I learned a lot about myself then, and, you know, kind of realised how much power that you really do have inside yourself when you're faced with the possibility that you might die. And I was able to use that as a positive when I came back to the sport. I was only 21, so it never entered my head that I wouldn't skate again. It was only a matter of when. I felt as though I had a lot of unfinished business. I got my leg back up to the same strength, but I unfortunately never got the power back in it, that explosive power that I had prior to getting my leg cut open. So that was something that I always had to contend with in the back of my mind. You know, from 94 onwards, not having that explosive power, how much was I down on what I could be? That I was able to put that out of my head. The other one was when I broke my neck, which was only 18 months before winning the gold medal, and that was a different story. I was in a halo brace, one of those things that get screwed into your skull and you look like a human building, so. I was wearing one of those for about a month and a half, and I had a lot of time to think, and it came down to, okay, I was arguably passed my best at that stage. I'd raced for Australia at three Winter Olympic Games, and the bottom line was that I hadn't done my best in any of those Olympics, and that's the biggest stage in the world, you know, where you're supposed to produce everything and more that you know you got in yourself. And I knew that I hadn't done it, and really that was all that mattered, you know. Chance to win, I was the favourite to win the thousand metres in 94, and I got knocked down in the first round. In 98 in Japan, I had good chance to win there too, but I got sick in the lead up to the Olympics and I didn't skate well. You know, when I broke my neck a couple of years before Salt Lake, I decided that that was where I was, the big turning point in my career, whether I was gonna keep going for that next 18 months or not. And I thought, I decided that I don't really have an option here, you know. I've trained my guts out of this sport for 10 years, and I'm not satisfied because I haven't done my best at the Olympics. And all I wanted to do up to that point was win a gold medal. I didn't have one. Chances are, I wasn't getting one, so I decided I've got to change my goal, and I reevaluated and said, okay, I'm gonna skate and do that last year and a half and make it to Salt Lake City and I'm gonna skate. When I do it, I don't care where I finish anymore. Probably not gonna get a gold medal. I'm probably not gonna get any medals. But as long as I could get off the ice after one race and say to myself that I finally came to the Olympic Games and did my best, well then, I decided it didn't really matter where I finished anymore. And 18 months of hard work over the course of 12 wasn't that much anyway, so I was just gonna get off my ass and do it and see what happened after that.

BEN WATERWORTH: Of course, in the quarterfinals, you originally eliminated, but before the defending world champion from Canada, Mao Geng Yong, I believe his name was, he was disqualified and that moved you into the semis. When you were originally eliminated, did you think that's it? You know, I've got to concentrate on my other events or did you sort of have slight hope that he might be getting disqualified with the events that were happening on the ice at the time?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, I thought that and I crossed the line third in that quarterfinal. And I remember looking at the draw list before that quarterfinal and I kind of swallowed and got a lump in my throat because that quarterfinal was absolutely stacked. I had the toughest one on paper by far with Mark Gagnon who was four time world champion and Apollo, I know the American, who was the favourite. And you got to finish first or second to get through to the next round. And in short track at that stage, there was the big four and those two guys were two of them. So to knock one of them off was gonna be a tall order. For me, in that quarterfinal, I skated the house down. I made my move at the right time. I was on the front from six laps to go through to about one and a half. Maybe I spent a bit too much of my legs maintaining that speed on the front. But there was a few eyebrows starting to be raised after I'd been on the front for four laps. It was good I hang on and win it. And I thought I might be able to do that for a second too, but unfortunately, the legs got a bit tired and Apollo and Gagnon got by me. And fortunately for me, Gagnon got disqualified for a movie made on the Japanese guy in the race, Tamura Nomoya, and that elevated me through to the semifinals. But no, I wasn't disappointed, because I knew that that was the race where I put it all on the line, and I'd given everything that I could give, and I was able to put those demons to rest in the previous three games, and finally be my best at the Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, so I mean, even if you had gone out in that quarterfinal and Gagnon wasn't actually disqualified, you still would have held your head up high after those games, knowing that you put that effort in that you were talking about before.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Oh, totally. That was the true meaning of success for me right there in that quarterfinal. And if I had gone out in that quarterfinal, I'm not true to the semis, I wouldn't be talking to you today. But I'd be as satisfied in my head. And for me, in the big scheme of things, the gold medal was fantastic, and it was the ultimate way to finish my career, but it wasn't the true meaning of success.

BEN WATERWORTH: Now, of course, in the semifinals, you went through after there was a crash, of course, too, on the final lap. But there's one lap remaining in the final. Your fifth, your last. You're getting ready to congratulate the gold medallists. Are you thinking about a nice warm shower and just sort of thinking to yourself, oh, I made the final. That's a good reward for what I've just been achieving all my life.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, I was excited to be in the final. I was realistic that at 28 years of age and the oldest skater, not just in the final, the oldest skater in the entire short track field, that four races in two hours was probably gonna be a bit too much for my legs because you go through heats, the quarters, the semis, with about half an hour rest in between. From the heat for the final is about two hours, maybe two and a half. And I was kinda realistic to that lactic acid thing I spoke of earlier. The recovery might not quite be there for that fourth race in two hours. And I was also pretty confident. And after speaking with my coach that the other guys in the final, none of them were interested in picking up the silver or the bronze, the other four guys in that final, they all wanted to win. And that meant that there could be a good chance of an accident or some kind of mishap on the last lap. Didn't look like that was gonna be the case. I'd gotten tired and dropped off about 15 metres, which for me was disappointing because I was a stronger skater than that. And to drop off in the final at the Olympics was for me not a big highlight. I like to watch the races where I actually skated my best. And in truth, that wasn't one of them. Chinese guy fell down into the last turn and I thought, well, that moves me up to fourth. That's not really any better than fifth. And setting up my final turn, I saw the other three guys go down out of the corner of my eye and I knew from them that I didn't need to skate anymore. I just had to get around that final corner and glide across the finish line and I was gonna go across first. I didn't know if I should celebrate or hide in the corner.

BEN WATERWORTH: I just remember the images though, just that look on your face. It was fantastic. And it just, it brought out something in Australia. You were talking about before how sort of every four years we pay attention to the Winter Olympics, but there was just something about that moment. It not only spoke volumes for Australian sport and an Olympic sport, but also just the true Australian spirit. I mean, you may have been 15 metres behind like you were saying before, but you didn't give up. You could have just pulled off or, you know, deliberately crashed, but you kept going. You held on. You won the gold medal. And no matter what anybody says, Steven, you are an Olympic gold medallist, and they can never take that away from you.

STEVEN BRADBURY: It's moments like that. And, you know, and there's countless ones of them in Australian sport over the years. You might think of Dean Lucan or somebody like that winning the gold medal at the 84 Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Or Duncan Armstrong. You know, those moments just stick in your mind. Or Kieran Perkins at the land of 96. And, you know, for me, at the moment with all this Crawford Report stuff coming out saying that, you know, that funding Olympic sport isn't value for money, it just makes me cringe on the inside, that Australians could be deprived of those future moments because we're not prepared to fund the lower profile Olympic sports as such. And, you know, I bet people tell me that that moment was the most Australian thing they've ever seen. And, you know, for me, those kind of Olympic moments are right at the top in the Australian psyche and things that Australian people value. So it would be very disappointing to see Olympic sports fall off the radar because they're not going to get funded anymore.

BEN WATERWORTH: I couldn't agree with you more about that, Steven. We're talking about that in the show today, actually. And considering that, I don't think there's an event anywhere in the world that draws together the world as much as the Olympics and brings the country like Australia, whether you like sport or hate it, everybody still pays attention to the Olympics. And it does, it brings the nation together. And I couldn't agree with you more saying that those moments are just burnt into people's memories. And as I mentioned in the introduction before, of course, you named one of Australia's 100 greatest Olympians as well because of that one moment. I mean, that must just be fantastic as well.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's always nice to be remembered for something you did, but for me, it's continually rewarding to know that through something that I did, I'm able to provide inspiration to others. And even today, people refer to that last man standing never giving up, doing a Bradbury thing. And through the motivational speaking that I've become fairly proficient at these days, talking in corporate land or at schools or sportsman nights or whatever, I love the feeling that I'm able to give to other people to just maybe sit back and think, yeah, if I try a bit harder at this goal of mine that I've got, whether it's in their business or their sport or whatever, the rewards are there if I'm prepared to stick it out.

BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely, Steven, and you certainly are an inspiration to many. I'll give you that one. Now, just before we're getting towards the end of the interview here, but how do you think Australia will fare in a couple of months' time when it comes to Vancouver next year?

STEVEN BRADBURY: We have our strongest Winter Olympic team to date, no question. The team is packed to the rafters with medal chances. The team will be probably 35 to 40 athletes. We have Tora Bright, who is the number one women's snowboard half pipe rider in the world. Jackie Cooper and Lydia La Cilla, who are arguably the two biggest favourites in women's aerials. Dale Beek Smith, our ex-pat Canadian, who won a gold medal for us in Torino a few years ago, and he'll be one of the favourites for the men's moguls. And then there's a whole host of others in other sports. Tatiana Borodilina, who is an ex-pat Russian, who now is skating for Australia, who will be one of the big contenders to win a medal in the women's 500 metres in short track speed skating. The list goes on. Jenny Allen's in ski cross, Damon Haylor in ski cross. Yeah, the team is just really thick, and there's no numbers, Phil, as in our 35 to 40 athletes. Realistically, we could get four or five medals in Vancouver next Feb.

BEN WATERWORTH: That would be fantastic, definitely, to come back from a winter Olympics. And considering you were talking before about the report about the Olympic funding, to come back from Vancouver, here's five medals. Shove this in your face, Australian government. This is what we need, you know? Shove this up your blunt and smoke it. Give us more money.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, Dan Strait, I like your adjectives there, Ben.

BEN WATERWORTH: I tried to calm it down a bit.

STEVEN BRADBURY: In winter sports, our eighth programme, winter sports that we have as part of the Olympic Winter Institute, they're all so limited numbers with the athletes that are amongst them that they don't really require that much funding, because there's such a small group of athletes in them, but those athletes are in the top level in the world, and they're 100% committed to bringing back medals from Vancouver. So, in my mind, it's pretty good value for money really, because there's not that many athletes to fund.

BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely, and you were saying before, there's only about 35 to 40 members, and compare that to our Summer Olympics team, which is a couple of hundred people. So I mean, you look at your value for money, and you bring, say, four or five medals out of a team of 40, I mean, that's what, like one in every eight people comes home with a medal. You don't get that for the Summer Olympics.

STEVEN BRADBURY: No, definitely not.

BEN WATERWORTH: Now look, Steven, just before we wrap things up with our five questions we like to ask our guests, I should mention too that down here with The Brink, we're trying to bring the Olympics to Hobart. We're trying for the 2020 Summer Games. We have spoken about possibly trying to get a combined winter effort in there. Now, if we were to include short track and-

STEVEN BRADBURY: Well, you actually have to have Summer.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, that's true. We'd probably be more of a chance at the Winter Games, you know, because it's nice and cold even in Summer. But if we were to hold short track speed skating, and we could say, you know, organise the event so the competitors were to fall over in the last corner like they did in Salt Lake. Could we coach you out of retirement to win a gold medal at a home Olympics?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, well, maybe you could freeze over the Derwent. Or, you know, freeze over the Sydney to Hobart, and I'll skate my way down.

BEN WATERWORTH: Have an outdoor speed skating, back like the classic Olympics. That is this artificial ice stuff, you know, we have natural ice in Hobart, that would work a treat.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Yeah, I'm not sure how your Olympic aspirations are going to work out down there, but I wish you every success nonetheless.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, they're going very well, Steven, I assure you that. Now, just as I said, we'll wrap things up with a set of questions we'd like to ask our guests. They'll only be whittled down to four questions due to the fact that one of our questions, we can't ask because my co-host isn't with me. So if you're nice, ready and relaxed, these questions aren't that hard to answer. So I wish you all the best of luck with them, Steven. First of all, what is your favourite type of cheese?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Better, extra tasty.

BEN WATERWORTH: Extra tasty. Gotta love the extra part in front of the tasty there. It makes it extra good. Are you a folder or a scruncher?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Definite folder. Oh, again. It's not a scrunching thing at all.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, we're on that bandwagon here, two of the show. Folding people are intelligent people and they're Olympic gold medallists. We can use that as a slogan. That works well, Steven. I like your thinking. Question number three, are we alone in the universe?

STEVEN BRADBURY: Ooh, doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo, yes.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, we have our first ever yes. Really, what's your thinking on that one, Steven? May I ask you that?

STEVEN BRADBURY: I don't buy into any of this extra terrestrial activity until they can show me some solid proof.

BEN WATERWORTH: I like that, groundwork and proof. You are our first ever guest to ever answer yes to that question. That's another first you can put on your resume. Fantastic, and our final question we wanna ask you here today, Steven, is what event would you like to see at the Hobart 2020 Olympics? Can be anything, doesn't have to be a sport, it can be dodgeball or bullfrog riding, anything. Let your imagination run wild, Steven.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Oh, there's so many things going through my head right now. How about the sheep toss?

BEN WATERWORTH: The sheep toss, I like that. New Zealand would do well in that one. They might take that a bit wrong way though and think of it something else. Thanks very much, Steven. That about wraps it up for our interview with you today. Thank you very much for your time, and wish you all the best of luck with your commentating for the Olympics in February and everything else in your life that goes your way.

STEVEN BRADBURY: Thank you very much, Ben. And yeah, looking forward to the Vancouver Games. You can check that on Channel 9. And there's broadcasting that starting on February 12. Should be fun.

BEN WATERWORTH: Such great memories, being able to listen to that again. And we have reached out to Steven again, we'd love to get him back on in a different capacity, of course, given that it's actually been 15 years, amazingly now since that win. So hopefully, maybe in the lead up to Beyond The Change, we can get him on the show again to give a bit more of a viewpoint of Australia's chances in the short track speed skating. So there you go. Big pleasure as always to be able to bring the show to you. Like us on Facebook, subscribe to us on iTunes, rate us, feed back, you know the drill. And we're gonna be continuing some of these classic interviews in the lead up, I guess, to Pyeongchang. Still a while away, but we wanna keep bringing you episodes. Just because we don't really have an Olympics to talk about right now, doesn't mean we still don't wanna bring you episodes. So thank you for tuning in to Off The Podium, and we'll speak to you next time.