Mandy Bujold Interview
Excited to bring you a new sport to cover on the show today as we punch our way into Boxing by speaking with legendary Canadian boxer Mandy Bujold about her extraordinary career! We learn from Mandy how she got into the sport and just what the boxing scene was like in Canada for females as she progressed her through the sport. We also learn about her incredible experience at the Rio Olympics and just how she was able to overcome a sudden illness to still compete. Added to this we find out more about the extreme circumstances she had to overcome to make it to Tokyo and how that helped spur her on as she entered the ring during the Olympics. It's an inspirational and entertaining interview you simply can't miss!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
COLIN HILDING: Welcome back to Off The Podium, man. Let me start off by saying hello, Ben.
BEN WATERWORTH: Hello, Colin. I'm glad you remembered I'm here straight away. Thank you for doing that awkward bit already. I'm this week's guest, talking about my Olympic experiences.
COLIN HILDING: Yeah, well, I mean, close, because this for the first time, we get to talk to somebody in a new sport, somebody in a sport you have a lot of experience with, a lot of experience of holding open doors.
BEN WATERWORTH: And hey, I didn't hold open doors. I ushered them off the maps in the media. Thank you.
COLIN HILDING: Saying no to people. Get away from my athletes. This is your sport. This is where you have your history. But we get to talk to our first ever boxer, which is great. And if we were to go back five years ago, when we started the show, in fact, I think we even talked about this five years ago. You know, who are some of the guests you'd really have to have? I mean, the name Mandy Bujold was one of the ones who came up for me immediately. And we're talking all the way back in Rio. And here we flash forward five years. She's had a lot go on in the last five years. So, I mean, there are plenty stories to tell even before Tokyo, but we're going to get so much stuff in here. I mean, this is definitely one of those interviews that I sort of thought about for a long time. It would be great if we could get her to talk. It was zero work. I mean, she's got so much to tell. It was just fantastic.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, no, I'll be honest. I wasn't overly familiar with Mandy until you told the story. I think I don't remember if you told it on air. I think you did tell it on air, but you told Jarrod and I a bit of it, sort of the situation. Might have even been in either our preview episode or sort of a look ahead to Tokyo episode. And yeah, I was fascinated by this story. Obviously, Mandy gets into a lot of it in this interview. But yeah, the interesting fact of this interview, you're talking about my history with the sport, my one month working at the Commonwealth Games in boxing. Didn't even bring it up with her. I was restrained. She wasn't there at the Commonwealth Games, so there wasn't a lot really to talk about.
COLIN HILDING: She knew there was going to be a bad media guy.
BEN WATERWORTH: I remember that guy. That's why we're avoiding having anyone from the Gold Coast on from boxing.
COLIN HILDING: You got that Waterworth guy working?
BEN WATERWORTH: But no, this is really, and like sort of mentioning in terms of a sport we haven't covered before, it's always exciting to do that. But this is a great chat. Learn a lot. And definitely is going to make me rethink the next time I want to call in sick to something. So I'll just put it that way.
COLIN HILDING: Yeah, stay tuned for that. So enjoy a long-awaited interview here. Boxing great, Canadian great, Mandy Bujold.
COLIN HILDING: It's always exciting to check off a new sport as we get to talk to an Olympic athlete that we've never talked to in a sport before. Even more exciting when it's somebody who probably made more news going into Tokyo than most of our gold medallists did coming out of Tokyo. Today we have Canadian Olympic, two-time Olympic boxer, Mandy Bujold. Mandy, thanks so much for joining us on Off The Podium.
MANDY BUJOLD: Thank you so much for having me.
COLIN HILDING: You have such an interesting story. I think that even before everything with Tokyo happened, which we will eventually get to, when we did this show a couple of years ago, one of us on the line here actually worked at the Commonwealth Games, and I remember telling him, I really hope Mandy Bujold is there. I mean, there's a great story to tell and everything like that. I mean, forget about Tokyo. You've got such an incredible history. I'm interested to dig into all of it before we even get to a lot of the drama that you've experienced over the years. Let's just start with how you got into boxing. I mean, this is something that I grew up watching, probably played around in the basement with some big mittens but never actually gotten to sports. So how did you actually land into boxing?
MANDY BUJOLD: I mean, that's actually a perfect segue into how I started. When I was younger, I was never really involved in sport. Like my parents would put me in things like baton twirling or artistic gymnastics. And I was just never really good at them. I wasn't flexible. So like really early on in life, I was just like, okay, I'm just not an athlete and I'm okay with that. And I kind of just went in a different direction. And one day, my brothers were fighting all the time. And my parents decided they were going to go buy a boxing bag and two sets of boxing gloves, and like hang this up in the basement so that my brothers would hit the bag instead of hit each other. This was their big strategy. But it didn't work. But what it did do is it like, it gave me some interest in the sport. And I remember like, I mean, I don't want to age myself, but back then you couldn't like YouTube, you couldn't like how to anything. So I would just like put these gloves on and hit the bag. I didn't know what I was doing, but I just like really enjoyed something about it. So yeah, around that time, I was probably about like eight, nine. And then a little later on, my family moved to Kitchener, Ontario. There's just like huge history for boxing in Kitchener, Waterloo. That's like the gym I started at was where Lennox Lewis started at, for example. And yeah, like I just, you know, initially walked into the gym thinking, okay, this is just for fitness. This looks like a really cool skill. I want to learn how to be able to throw punches and protect myself. I never thought like I was ever going to take it to this point. It was really just more around learning the skill of boxing. So anyway, needless to say, I stuck with it and here we are today.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's fascinating to kind of hear that. And I'll just say, you're allowed to age yourself, Mandy, because I believe you and I are both the same age. So Colin's the old one on this episode.
COLIN HILDING: We've had far too many guests on where we feel really old.
BEN WATERWORTH: When we ask a question of what's the first Olympics you remember and they start saying things like Beijing and London. Well, this is this is going well. But I mean, I'd be intrigued to sort of know, like sort of with that, that history of of the sport there, what was in terms like when you got involved at sort of where was women's boxing at at that point in Canada? Because obviously it was a bit late to the party and coming to the Olympics, as we'll obviously get to. But I mean, kind of what was the scene like? Were there high participation numbers sort of with female boxing at that point?
MANDY BUJOLD: No, like when I started, there were a few girls in the gym, like I would say Canada had a national team. They may have travelled, you know, once or twice type thing. But it wasn't like super big. Like I do remember one girl in my gym in particular. And again, that was one of the things that like kind of motivated me is like watching her spar with the guys. And I was just like, wow, like that looked pretty badass. Like she was beating them up and it was like, I want to be that girl. So yeah, there were there were a few around. But I mean, over the years, there was so many moments and so many days where you'd look around. I wouldn't even really notice at first, but every once in a while you look around, you're like, oh, yeah, I guess I'm the only girl here. And now it's like it's obviously changed quite a bit. But yeah, there was definitely some some growing that had to happen. I think the Olympics was a good thing for women's boxing. It really helped us, you know, just get to that big stage where young girls can now see it on TV and be like, hey, maybe never thought boxing before. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
COLIN HILDING: I was very excited to hear you mention Lennox Lewis's gym there. Just a bit of a history for me. I mean, my wife and I, we have an older boy that we weren't sure if we were going to have any other kids. So he had three middle names that we had twin boys. We had run out of boy middle names very quickly. So I told her I'm like, I get to name one of the twins middle names from James Bond. So his middle name is Bond. And the other one, I said, I want to name him Lennox. So we have Lennox is one of the middle names because of Lennox Lewis. But I didn't even realise until just recently reading up a little bit. But you actually shared a trainer with Lennox Lewis as well. I mean, was that what age did that, I guess, training start with him? And what was that like to train it as somebody who actually trained an Olympic medallist slash world champion slash all time legend?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, so I so Adrian Tude rescued the coach that took Lennox to the Olympics. And like Adrian was a legend in the boxing world. You know, he coached he came over from Romania and he literally coached any Canadian who ever won a world title or Olympic medal for like, you know, the 50 years that he was coaching full time. So yeah, having the opportunity to work with him was amazing, especially because, you know, when I started going to him full time, it was after 2012 when I didn't qualify. And the coach that I was working with at the time essentially told me that research I don't know where he found this research research says that if you don't qualify for your first Olympics, you're never going to qualify for the Olympics. So essentially, your career was over. So 2012, my career was over. So that's when I went to Adrian because I had kind of met him. We were doing a little bit of work here and there whenever I was going over to Europe. He was just kind of like teaching me some of the stuff that I would need to know when I was fighting these girls. So there was always a little bit of a connection there. But, I mean, I wrote it down like three years before I even went to him that like, if I could work with him full time, it would take my boxing to another level. And it did. So like working under his gym and with him in my corner, like, he just coaches at a different level. Like, he doesn't even have to really say anything. You just know what he expects from you. And he just brings the best out of you. Like, and even if you want to give 100%, he makes you give 110, because he just demands that greatness from everybody that works with him.
BEN WATERWORTH: We always like to find out from our guests in terms of just Olympic aspirations, obviously going through boxing at that point. It didn't come on to the Olympics, female boxing, I should say, until 2012. I mean, did you grow up sort of with aspirations of an Olympics in general, maybe in another sport, or were you sort of so focused on boxing that given that it wasn't part of the Olympic program for a lot of your junior career, that it really wasn't something you strive to until they announced it and thought, OK, well, this is actually achievable now.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, no, I did not. I don't even think I knew what the Olympics were when I was younger, to be honest. Yeah, no, like, definitely not from a, like, athletic family. You know, we would watch, like, the hockey playoffs. That was probably the extent of, like, sport that really, like, happened in my house. So, no, definitely no. I mean, like I said, growing up, I wasn't really involved in sport until I was 16 that I walked into a boxing club. And I had no idea, you know, where the sport was going to take me or, like, if the Olympics were even a thing. So after I started kind of competing and realising, hey, like, I'm pretty good at this, then, like, you know, I started to be like, OK, let's win a provincials. Let's win a nationals. And then once you're a national champion, then it's like, OK, like, what else? You always want that next step. So right away, like 2012, it was obviously the dream is to go to that Olympics. But, you know, for me, it didn't work out. It was, you know, the whole qualification system there was a little bit confusing, I guess, for people because it was the first time and they were just figuring it out. But now, now things are, I think, a little bit smoother.
COLIN HILDING: Was there a lot of disappointment when you realised you weren't going to make London or because that was the first time? I mean, had you heard yet that or did it come afterwards that bad advice of, if you don't make it the first time around, you're not going to make it? Because, I mean, you were coming off of success with the Pan Am Games, and you must have at least thought to yourself, hey, if the Olympics don't work, there's Commonwealth, there's Pan Am after that?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I mean, I was definitely disappointed. Again, there was just so much politics involved with that Olympics in 2012, too. There was some wild card spots that were being handed out. Even Boxing Canada tells me my names, entered in for one of these wild cards, come to find out they didn't even submit my name. So there was just a lot of like, well, wait a second, does my own sport organisation believe in me? Am I the only one that believes in me? What's going on here? So yeah, disappointment, but also, like you said, there was, okay, I was still young enough, and just kind of really getting that international experience, starting to get those big wins, like the Pan American Games, that it was a pretty easy decision to stick it out for another four years.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is there a peak age or sort of an age in boxing where you work towards? You mentioned sort of you were still young, sort of London, what about 25, I believe. So I mean, that's still relatively young. So I mean, is it kind of a case of that, okay, well, I'll be 29 by Rio. So that's more of an ideal age where I want to be or looking forward to Tokyo. I mean, kind of what sort of how does that work in boxing?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I mean, I think for women, we see it a lot. And I don't know if it's because like, like we were talking, like the Olympics started a little bit like later. But a lot of the girls in boxing are peaking a little bit later. So I would say like women peak between that, like 28 to 32, 33 range in boxing. That's what I've seen. So, yeah, again, I just it was more of like, OK, am I still in this for the right reasons? It was more of like a do I still have the passion to do this? Because obviously the training and everything that goes into boxing, it's, I think, like no other sport that you can really compare it to, because it's just, you know, mentally, physical. It's just it's everything that you have to put into it. And it's, you know, it takes up your entire life. So you have to be really committed. And then also there's someone else in there that wants to essentially take your head off. So if you're not prepared, it's not a good thing. So I think you have to really just make sure you're 100% in it. And I think that was all I had to really, you know, figure out after 2012.
COLIN HILDING: I know in boxing, oftentimes the weight class, you know, sometimes there's even strategic moves as to which one you want to be in. You know, fighters will go up weight class, go down to weight class, because maybe they want a shot at something or they think they have a better shot. For you, I think you're in the flyweight category. Was that just the natural fit for you? That was where you're most comfortable? Or did you figure, okay, I want to actually fit in? And then also, how hard is it to be able to stay in that weight class, you know, when you're training all the time? Like, do you have to weigh yourself three times a day to make sure that you're actually going to make the class you want to go out for?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, 51 is actually a pretty comfortable weight class for me, I will say that. I did start out, like, cutting down to 50 was the old weight division, and now I think they actually just changed it back just recently. So it was natural, and then when they announced the Olympics, they moved it to 51, which I was like, great, I get an extra kilo, which was good for me. But no, I don't think I really have to struggle too much, which is something I never really enjoyed for boxing, is making weight. Like that's just not a good feeling. So I do, I mean, I try to stay active all the time so that I don't have to worry about like those big weight cuts. I'll usually walk around like 116, 117. Then like as my training gets closer, you kind of get it down to a science, but you have it, you know, so that you're maybe two pounds over, then you just kind of lose the rest in water weight. So it's not so much of a struggle. You kind of, again, you learn as you go along with like what you can eat, what you can't eat as you're getting closer to weigh-ins. And yeah, I mean, naturally, I think in any weight management sport, you step on the scale a lot. It's probably not the healthiest thing. But yeah, you just get so used to like having your body feel a certain way, look a certain way, and then like weigh a certain amount. So you can almost like put all those together, and you're always just like almost obsessing about, oh no, like, what's my weight? It does become something that you have to kind of make sure that when you're not getting ready for a competition that you don't step on a scale because it can become an unhealthy habit for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: You mentioned about the training and I mean, yeah, just the uniqueness around sort of what you have to do in the sport. I mean, sort of at your peak, what's a general week like? I mean, you have to kind of really balance between physical and then strategic, and then even kind of like things like agility. I mean, our Australia's boxer, Harry Garcide, famously when he won the bronze in Tokyo, a lot of the talk was around the fact that he did ballet to kind of help, you know, his agility there in the ring. I mean, kind of take us through some of the things that you're doing out there to kind of really hone your skills when you're going to these major competitions.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I mean, obviously the physical training is a huge part of it. So you have like your regular boxing training, which could be like, you know, your bag work, your sparring, your pads, just doing that one on one technical work with your coach, which builds like the muscle memory conditioning. But then you have the other side of things where like you still have to be able to run because you got to build up like the cardio aspect and the endurance and you got to do sprints because you got to be able to like turn it on because boxing is not like, like it's only three minutes, three minute rounds. So you have to be able to like go at a pace and then like pick it up really quickly and then slow down and then pick it up really quickly. So you really need to be able to do intervals. You have to have like fast feet. So doing a lot of like ladder drills, that type of thing. Yeah, there's so many aspects. Then you also have to be strong enough to like, okay, when you're landing punches, you want to have impact on those punches. So you have to have a strength program to do. So you do have to kind of find a balance on like, well, what works? How many times a week are you going to do each of these like aspects of training? And then trying to fit in some like, you know, flexibility, recovery. So, you know, for me, massage is usually like the biggest recovery piece and like rolling out, stretching, that type of thing. And then you're also adding in maybe some reaction training. I do a lot of stuff with like blaze pods, just trying to like work on some different reaction. Doing some like mental performance stuff with my like sports psychologist. So that would be, you know, added in like just working through different scenarios. Yeah, there's so many aspects. Something more recent that I've added would be like some cognitive training. So just really doing some like multitasking things. So I think like if you if you watch boxing, like Lomachanko does a lot of that type of training. So, you know, if you have like a number board in front of you and you're trying to find the numbers from like one to 30, but you're also, you know, singing Oh Canada while you're doing it, for example. So like trying to do things like that and then be able to like react to catch a ball, you know, so you're always like thinking and being able to see all the reactions or all the openings when you're sparring. So, yeah, tons of components to put in. But yeah, the training is, you know, two to three times a day, six days a week. So, yeah, it's a pretty pretty busy schedule.
COLIN HILDING: Yeah, I think the first time where I probably noticed you on the media radar and everything like that was during the 2015 Pan Am Games, which maybe because that was here in Canada, you know, it was just so much of a bigger deal. I remember just being on TV everywhere. You know, what was it like to be able to not only compete in your home country, but to be able to to meddle in what I guess outside of the Olympics, at least here in North America would be considered like this is the peak. This is as big as it gets for your sport.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah, very much like one of the highlights of my career. And a big reason for that too is that like in that final, it was a very like personal fight for me. This was a girl that had beat me three times before. We always had really, really close fights. I knew that like this was the girl I had to prepare for. At the time, she had just won the World Championship, so she was the number one in the world. She was on like this like 28 fight win streak, and they were talking about it all over the news, and she was, you know, sponsored by Coca-Cola and Nike and CoverGirl. And, you know, like we're just like, okay, we're going to try and like go with there, and we got zero funding and zero whatever, but we're going to do it. So it was kind of fun, like just to be like on the other side of like, this girl's walking in here thinks she's just going to like take it. But I don't know, it was just it was a really cool, like I was so mentally tuned in for that fight. There's like a lot of like really fun moments leading into that fight for me that make it like a really good memory. And then obviously to be on home soil, to actually be able to like have my family there watching like the whole journey, like every fight in the tournament, which they've never done even since, was pretty cool.
COLIN HILDING: You just described the plot of Rocky there. I mean, the dominant unbeaten champ who has all the funding against the unfunded underdog in their home city. I mean, that's incredible right there. Let's make the Mandy Bujold Pan Am Games movie.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, there was honestly like that's probably one of the stories I share the most because there were so many like funny moments leading up to that, leading up to that fight where like even like at the weigh-ins, for example, I got to the weigh-ins that morning and she was the only other, like normally like the room is full of boxers who were fighting that day. And she was the only other boxer in the room when I got there, which was like at first like, okay, this is kind of awkward. But I kind of like, I'm going to take advantage of this moment. And I like went over and I like just put my stuff down beside her, but like kind of brushed her shoulder like a little bit. And got like this reaction from her like, what the hell are you doing? And I just like pretended, you know, I'm just a nice Canadian. That never happened. But it's funny because like later she tried to like get me back for that by like being in my area where it was warming up. Like I was supposed to be in the red corner area. She was in the blue corner area. And then like when I got there, she was already all set up in my like space as though to be like, you have to go somewhere else. Like make put me out of my comfort zone right before the fight where I was like, oh hell no. So like it was all like little things, right? Where it was like a mental fight between us before even stepping into the ring. So I think, yeah, it was, it was just, there was lots of fun, fun parts to that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Typical American. Let's just put it that way. The thing I was like asking sort of, you know, in different sports, that aspect of, of, you know, sledging, mental, you know, kind of like having a bit of a go at the competitor. I mean, boxing is kind of the quintessential sport when it comes to that. I mean, I can almost imagine it's kind of the opposite. I mean, do you often look at a draw at an event and just look at your opponent and say, oh, I hate her. Oh, I can't wait to punch her. Like, and then, oh God, it's gonna feel so good just punching the crap out of her. Like, I mean, maybe it's the opposite question for boxing. Is there ever sometimes when you go, oh, I like her. I don't want to hit her. She's nice.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, no, it is. I mean, it really depends. Like, I honestly don't usually think like that. Like, for me, it's really like I don't I don't love the trash talk and all that, like stuff that goes along with, let's say, the pro side of boxing. And some people try to bring it into the amateurs. I've never been one to do it. Like, I just like to let my skill do the talking. But no, like, I mean, when I go in there, honestly, I'm so tuned in. It's all about strategy. I don't usually have anything personal. It was only this girl was probably the only fight that I was like, this is personal, like, because of some things that were said. But other than that, no, I try to keep that out of it, because then you just get too emotionally involved. And then you're not just you don't have the same focus, right? So I like to have like a super clear mind going into fights. And yeah, but yeah, sometimes you actually do have people that you really like. And you're like, well, I kind of feel bad for this person, especially if you're really beating them up, then you kind of like go easy. Like, OK, I won't stop them, but I'll just like uppercut.
COLIN HILDING: I'm sorry. Right hook. Sorry again.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's a Canadian boxing way I can imagine. Now, every time you hit someone, you apologise.
COLIN HILDING: I mean, obviously, you know, you have the story from London. You know, you just miss out the Pan Am Games. You have your great victory. Rio was a completely different matter. I mean, really, I think you were doing quite well. And then you were you were hit with an illness or something like that. What was that?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, so right before my quarterfinal match, I ended up like I had everything ready. I had made weight. My bag was packed. Everything was ready. I was fighting the next morning at 11 o'clock. And then I just started to feel sick. And I was like in bed. It was about 10 p.m. And I was just thinking, OK, maybe it's just nerves. Like, OK, I'm at the Olympics, like I'm just maybe going through, I don't know, like nerves. And then I got up and I got sick. And then I thought, OK, like trying to mentally tell myself, like, I'm good now. Like, got that in my system, just going to go to bed. And then I just like kept waking up and getting sick. And after the third time, I was like, OK, I think I'm actually sick. And I should probably call my coach because I remember he told me that there was a doctor on site. So I called him, and then right away, they brought me to the doctor. I ended up coming down with some sort of like tourist virus. So they brought me over to the hospital in the morning. And I had lost like five pounds of fluids on top of like making weight. So I was like completely dehydrated. So they just tried to like, you know, give me some fluids through an IV, you know, give me medication. But it was a bit of chaos. Like I was like there and I was so weak and tired from like just being so dehydrated that I could just see all the doctors. There was three different doctors. There was language barriers. They didn't know what they could give me, what they couldn't give me because of all like the anti-doping regulations. And like I was about to step into the ring, and they weren't sure if I was going to step into the ring. It was just like a little bit crazy. But nonetheless, like that was a moment where I knew that, you know, in 2012, I didn't make it. And now it was just like, this cannot be happening. Like 13 years of training, I'm at this moment, like this has got to be a nightmare. And I mean, I just kept thinking about like something that my sports psychologists used to tell me all the time. And it was that it's not about what happens to you that counts. It's about how you react to what happens to you that matters. And like, I don't know why, it was like really weird. I felt like a dream. But I just like kept going through my head because it was like, I could be really pissed off right now and just like waste my energy and just like not even try getting into the ring because that's what the doctors like thought I was going to do. Or I can just like, you know, take it all in and just go one step at a time. And then just again, it was like moment by moment. I had no idea I was going to step into the ring till like my foot hit the canvas. So yeah, that's what I did. And then I about, I think it was 950. So an hour and 10 minutes before, like we took the IV out. I got on a bike. Lucky the hospital was like right across, or not far, I should say, from our venue. And like biked over again. It was like out of a movie. Like there was this volunteer. He had to like, his job was like to run beside me to make sure I didn't fall off this bike. All my way over to the venue. And yeah, so I got there and everything was kind of like laid out and set up for me. I tried to warm up, couldn't warm up. So I just like focused on being mentally prepared. Like what would I normally be thinking right now? You know, the doctors were trying to convince me that it hadn't been 24 hours since I like first got the illness so that my muscles were still going to be able to react. Even if it felt like you feel really weak right now, like you just have to trust your muscle memory. And they were giving me like, like an instant insulin. Like it was like a gel or something. They were trying to like, give me this to like boost my like, I don't know, like it was just the sugar levels and stuff. Anyway, it was just a complete nightmare, to be honest. And the next thing I knew, like I was standing there behind the curtain, the cameras in my face. And yeah, I went out there and I boxed. And you know, I didn't just box anybody. I boxed like a three time world champion and an Olympic silver medallist, now bronze medallist from China. And it was still a really close fight. And yeah, like it just, I guess it just kind of shows you, like how, you know, mentally strong, like all the training and you know, all the things you go through leading up to that can really make you. And definitely made me very stubborn because I didn't want to give up. And I just, I knew I'd come that far and that I would have regretted it forever if I didn't at least step in there and give it a shot.
BEN WATERWORTH: What I love about that story is that I think we can all relate on one level, is that you've always got one of those days where you're sick and you're like, gosh, I need to go to work today. I've got a busy day ahead. Like, I have to go. Like, oh, but I'm sick. Ah, screw it. I'm going to go to work. Right. And you always feel a bit like you walk into the office and you're like, yeah, look at me. I'm committed. You know, I'm sick, but here I am. You're literally telling that story an hour and 10 minutes before an Olympic quarterfinal that essentially you probably shouldn't be competing, but stuff it. It's an Olympic quarterfinal. So if anybody needs inspiration listening to this today, maybe you're listening before going to work. No, I'm a bit sick. Should I go listen to this story? Because, you know, if Mandy can do that in the Olympics, I think you've got a bit of a sniffle. I mean, it's incredible to kind of just think that. I mean, after that bout, do you just go back to the village and collapse and sleep for three days? I mean, kind of like, do you then all of a sudden have to like recover from that? Not only from, I guess, disappointment of losing an Olympic quarterfinal, but then all of a sudden, you're, oh, shit, I'm still sick. I've got to recover from this.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it definitely went back. I kind of went into like quarantine because obviously we didn't want to make any of the other athletes sick who were still competing. But yeah, I mean, I had a lot of time to like reflect. It was, you know, it was something that was really hard for me. Like, I mean, I couldn't tell this story even like for about a year or after it had happened because it was just, I was so emotionally like attached to this, like this dream and like how much I put into it and you know, everything that happened leading into it. So it was it was really tough for me to go through all of that and just you just think about like, oh my god, like even like I had four days off in between my two fights and it's like, what if it would have happened like right after I like the first fight and like maybe I would have had time to recover and like, you know, you think of like every every scenario and it's like, why did this happen? But nonetheless, like that definitely did become a motivating factor for me on why I continued to go because that was supposed to be my last Olympics. And then it was like, well, I can't leave it like that. And then it's like, okay, now we have four more years.
COLIN HILDING: Well, five almost, I guess you thought at the time, which, which really that that kind of brings us to, I guess, outside of Canada. I mean, here in Canada, people probably know your name, but outside of Canada, I guess most people would associate you with a lot of the stuff that happened pre Tokyo, which, again, I most feel like, you know, how do I even set this up, you can just basically tell the story. But basically, what it comes down to, from what I understand is, I mean, you you had a baby, you plan this, I think a lot of people maybe have misinterpreted the story by not reading enough thinking, well, you know, she had a baby, and now she wants into the Olympics, she miss qualifying, you plan this around the qualification, you're like, I want to I want to make sure I'm there to qualify. And then of course, COVID happens, which nobody's really faulting the world or Olympic Committee or anything like that. But I guess, what was it, it was more just the fact that they were they were not going to give an opportunity to you, or I guess, others who had missed that? Or can you kind of give people the gist of the whole drama going into Tokyo?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, so much drama. Yeah, like, it was, I mean, just, again, it's a crazy time, but, yeah, like you said, um, as an athlete, as a female athlete, I should say, you're you have to plan your if you want to have a baby between Olympic cycles, you have to plan that properly, because there's going to be specific events that you need to attend, that are going to be qualifying events or for some people, it's like a point system, and you have to get x amount of points, so you have to think about that and plan around the Olympic cycle, which I did. I planned it so that I would have one year, I'd be back to training and competing one year before any qualification tournaments happened. So I could like have that build up to being like prepared and actually having the best opportunity to qualify. So yeah, everything was perfectly fine up until like COVID hit. So I had essentially completed step one before COVID hit, which was winning our Canadian Olympic trials. And that was like the end of 2019. And then the next step, which would have got my spot at the Olympics was the America's qualifiers. So each continent has their own qualifiers. So that was in March, literally a week before or like a week after COVID hit, like the pandemic hit. And, you know, I was kind of watching things on the news thinking like, Oh, I think we'll be able to get there and get back before this gets too crazy, like when you're watching the numbers go up. And then we just got a call that like essentially Argentina shut down flights and people couldn't go in. So it was cancelled. So that was devastating because it was, you know, obviously the Olympic trials and you're thinking like, Oh, no, like now what? And then you're kind of like in this panic of like, the Olympics are still going forward. But you're kind of being left out. And then the Olympics get cancelled and postponed, which has never happened in history, right? Like, so now this is like, okay, well, a little bit of hope, but also like, oh, man, now I have to train for another year. And like, I'm already pushing this by like being here for another for the for that I was. So that was that was tough. But again, so we go through the whole cycle, we, you know, get prepared, do what we can, we're pretty limited. You know, in Canada, we couldn't really do much contact, we weren't allowed to compete, we weren't allowed to like travel to compete. So like we had essentially 18 months of like no activity, leading up to the Olympics, which is absolutely crazy when you think about it. But yeah, so get to that moment again, where things start opening up, okay, we're getting dates on the calendar again, here's the two Olympic qualifiers. And then in February of 2021, we hear that the the world qualifier gets cancelled. So we're like, Oh, no. There's one cancelled, now they're just going to have our continental qualifier. So you only have one shot. And then we're getting ready for this. And again, like, two weeks before, we kind of got a call and it was like, okay, like, they're going to make the final decision next week. They're looking at a few different things and you're thinking, Oh, God, what do you mean final decision like this was supposed to be happening? Anyways, it gets cancelled. And then we're just all sitting in limbo trying to think of like, how are they going to qualify the athletes like every other continent was able to get back to their qualification systems and get the athletes qualified in the ring. And now the Americas are like, our continents not going to have that opportunity. So what they did was they retroactively selected. So from that time, they looked back and they were like, okay, let's just randomly pick, you know, three events that will just say those were the qualifying events. And of course, the three event they picked were like, in an 11 month span, like essentially the only events in 16 years that I missed and due to my like pregnancy and postpartum period. So initially, I was just like, a little bit like, oh, no, like, do I the only person that feels like this is like, how can that be like I'm being left out for this reason? It doesn't make sense. So I called a friend of mine who just happened to be like, the number one litigator in Canada. And I don't usually ask her for legal advice, because I'm like, everyone probably asked, like calls her all the time asking for legal advice. I never do. But this one was like, okay, I have to just like put this out there in a conversation to see what she says. And like, it took her like three minutes and a quick like Google search of like the Olympic Charter to be like, well, no, they're in complete violation of the Olympic Charter. And this is like a case of discrimination based on sex or a gender equity case. So yeah, that was the beginning of it. And then we, you know, again, we tried to bring it forward. We tried to say like, hey, like, give them the benefit of the doubt. They didn't think of this. Let's just put it in a formal letter. Let's even have the letter hand delivered in Switzerland to make sure that they realise that we want to bring this forward and like show them what's happening, that this is serious. And just again, just kind of getting pushed off, pushed off. So we had to just take a next step and say, okay, well, we're going to file for at the Court of Arbitration for sport. And you know, that's the highest level of court you can take them to. And I think even at that point, they didn't think we were going to take it as far as we did because then they just try to keep throwing stuff at you to get you to like, you know, not take it that far. But I don't think they realise, but now they do that the lawyer I had in my corner was quite fierce and was not going to back down from a fight.
COLIN HILDING: And not to mention a mother. I mean, and a boxer like this is the one sport that I think you don't want to take on.
BEN WATERWORTH: Like maybe I don't know, an equestrian athlete, sure, but not a boxer.
MANDY BUJOLD: Exactly. So anyway, yeah, it was it was quite the journey, quite the battle. And I guess, you know, despite all odds that were it seemed like the odds were against us like a lot of the way through just kind of, you know, how big the IOC is and just being the largest, you know, sport organisation, they just they kind of make it seem like they can do what they want. But it came down to the panel and there was a panel of arbitrators and they were the ones that had the final call. So when we got the decision, it was it was a pretty big moment and a pretty exciting moment because it was, you know, it was a win for for not only for my spot, but for I think the future of sport and it can definitely make some change, you know, in the future.
COLIN HILDING: This was like such a huge news story. I mean, outside of Canada, I mean, everywhere, there are people all over the world who are carrying this. I remember when that decision finally came down, I mean, we're talking it was within what was it like two weeks of the Olympics or something? Well, I had a notification pop up on my phone and at this point, I'm thinking, oh, there's no way she's going to compete even if this is just going to be a decision for future athletes. But all of a sudden, you're like, oh, yeah, and I'm going to Tokyo. I'm like, well, how do you actually transition from you've been involved in one of the biggest legal battles in Olympic history, one of the biggest, arguably the biggest fight that you've ever had and it's outside the ring to I've got two weeks, I'm going to Tokyo. Yeah.
MANDY BUJOLD: Well, I definitely stayed ready as ready as I could during the entire like court case and back and forth, which was a very, very hard because it was, you know, you're spending three or four hours like, you know, on the phone with lawyers going over witness prep and like, like, I just kept telling my lawyer like, I don't know how you do that. It's like one minute. It's like, this is really good for us. Oh, no, this sucks. Like, oh, this is really good. That's just like way too much of a like a roller coaster. So yeah, there was definitely days when I was in the gym and I just show up and I was just completely deflated or completely in tears. And I'd like would just walk in my coach's office and sit there. And then he would just have to bring me back up and get me through the workout. You know, a lot of it did kind of feel like I was just going through the motions sometimes. But I was there. I showed up. I showed up to every session. I never missed a session because of it. Because I knew, like, OK, like, I have to win this case to go to the Olympics. But if I win this case, I have to be ready for the Olympics. So there was always just this, like, uncertainty hanging over me. And yeah, so I definitely tried to try to balance both. But I do think that, like, the mental energy that I put out into, like, fighting the case was more than I've ever had to do and something that was hard for me to, like, come back and then really want it. Like, when I was at the Olympics, it was almost like they kind of took away that, like, like, I don't know, like, in my mind, how I had built up the Olympics for so many years. It was just like all about, you know, fair play and, like, bringing people together and equality and, like, just so many, like, things you think when you think of, like, the Olympic movement. Just their response and the things that we were seeing behind the scenes was just like, whoa, this is not at all what I thought it was. And it took a little bit of that, like, you know, the value I put on the Olympics went from here to, like, way down here. So I think that was hard, like, to try to be like, okay, this is something I had to turn it around, like, from, this is something, like, I really want to win an Olympic medal because I won an Olympic medal, to, no, I just want to go there and I want to box the best in the world, and I want to be able to prove myself because that was a better motivator for me at that point. But trying to change that, like, mindset of, like, not really about a medal, it's more of, like, I want to, like, be able to prove myself. But yeah, I think between going through that and the fact that we did not get to step into the ring for 18 months before the Olympics, you know, the combination of those two things were just, you know, it's not, it's not ideal preparation. And I just wasn't able to actually perform when it got to time for the Olympic fight.
BEN WATERWORTH: So the thing, though, that I think learning from all of what you're telling us today, Mandy, is that, I mean, it's obviously, you know, not great to hear that that kind of that opinion can change. We had Evan Dumphy on recently, and he sort of was saying, you know, similar things, kind of like, you know, the opinions of the Olympics can change when you're sort of involved in the politics of it all. But I think what's always going to be tied to your story is, it's almost like you've got a bit of a curse around the Olympics, but you've always kind of fought against it. I mean, after sort of London, the disappointment of that, and Rio comes along, you're doing well, you get sick, but you fight against that. And then your whole fight just to get to Tokyo. I mean, do you think this is something that, you know, in a few years time, when you sort of reflect on your career, the fact that you're an Olympian, they can never take that away from you, that you fought so many more things that, you know, sure, a medal would have been great, but you, I guess, showed that, you know, just being an athlete and kind of getting to a games and fighting against all this sort of stuff, and that can still withhold sort of those Olympic ideals, maybe that you once held a little bit higher than you do now.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, absolutely. I think, like you said, the fight outside the ring, especially at this last one, was definitely the biggest win of my career. It was something that I can be proud of, and I think that it's a way for me to, like, leave the sport better than I found it. And yeah, I think it's... There's obviously lots of really great learning experiences through sport. I mean, I wouldn't change any of it because I learnt a lot about myself. It made me stronger. It made me the person I am today. So definitely wouldn't change anything in that sense. And yeah, there's been obstacle after obstacle. We all have obstacles in our life. We all deal with them a little bit differently. For me, I just never let those obstacles become barriers, and I just keep pushing through for what it is that I'm working towards.
COLIN HILDING: And I mean, ultimately, obviously, your story coming into Tokyo put a lot of spotlight on you on women's boxing as a whole. I think one of the big testaments to what a big deal it is is the fact that CBC's coverage, for some of the boxing that goes on for days and days and days, they're going to show it in replays and stuff like that. They cut live when you had your fight. And I think one of the best things that I saw for the entire Olympics was the fact that you lost in that fight. And I don't think of it, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but there was contentment from losing. Your victory was, I'm here and I fought. I think you had a little thing communicating with your daughter back home, too. Was it like a happy moment or is it just a little bit of, you know what, I'm not in this anymore, the Olympic dream has died, or is there happiness just in this was my fight, I came here and this is what I wanted to do?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I think it was a mix of both, to be honest. Obviously, I would have loved to have that, just imagine how great that story would have been. You win this and then you come home and you end up on the podium, right? That's obviously the dream, and it seemed like things were really lining up to make that happen. I had a great draw. A lot of those things were in place when I was looking at it. Wow, when I got there, I was like, man, I think I can actually do this. But, I mean, yeah, there's some elements that were just out of my control on that side, I think. There was a little bit of, I think, at the end of that fight, was kind of like, it's over, finally. There was definitely that relief moment because there was just so much tension and stuff leading up to it. But yeah, then there's the disappointment, there's the excitement around, you know what? Like, hey, I still got here, despite all odds, and there was still just a big win for women in general to be part of that, and even just for the people around the world, like you said, just to have that much interest in the story and to see that it was important to so many people was really amazing, right? At first, it was about me, and then it was like, no, it wasn't about me anymore. It was just a bigger fight. I was the one that was going to have to push for it, unfortunately, but it was something that was going to affect so many people, and there were so many people just reaching out, even out of the sporting world, that were just relating to things that maybe happened in their workplace or how they have dealt with different situations. And honestly, the support around it was amazing.
BEN WATERWORTH: And do you now hope to kind of use some of that and sort of further develop the sport for women, sport in general, kind of fighting against these things that clearly men don't have to face in the world of sport? You're hoping to take that forward?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I mean, obviously if there's opportunities like that, even just by sharing my story or working with other athletes as they develop. I love the sporting world and I love so many aspects of it, even on the branding, marketing side of things. That's definitely something I'm very passionate about. So yeah, I mean, I want to stay involved in different ways. So yeah, I'm excited to see kind of where that takes me to.
COLIN HILDING: Before we get to our final series of questions here, there's one question I have to ask, because I thought for a couple of years I've been patting myself on the back. It's like I've got two twins, one of which has middle name from James Bond, the other one from Lennox Lewis. I think you put me to shame because your daughter, it had to have been intentional. She is KO. Bujold. That was not intentional?
MANDY BUJOLD: It wasn't intentional.
COLIN HILDING: How is that possible?
MANDY BUJOLD: I know. Well, initially, I really liked the name Olympia because, I mean, Serena Williams named her daughter Olympia or her middle name is Olympia, too, and I really liked that name when I heard it. But then we weren't sure, like, do we name her that or do we give her that as a middle name? Anyway, so we ended up on Kate, and then my husband essentially, like, we were the NICU. She was premature. And then finally, they kept coming in, like, does she have a name yet? Does she have a name yet? We couldn't decide. And then finally, he's just like, you just give her the middle name you want. So I picked Olympia. And then when I posted it, someone was like, wait a second, her initials are KO? I was like, oh my god, that's so brilliant. Yes, it is. Totally planned.
BEN WATERWORTH: No. I was going to say, just roll with it. Just be like, yeah, absolutely. And then she goes on to a massive boxing career as well. Gold medal around the neck, you know? Like, oh, this was planned. Mum, my great, you know, look at this. And just go for it. Or is it the opposite? She never going to leave that down? Now, we close out each interview with a series of questions, sort of a get to know yourself questions. I'd actually be intrigued. We always like to ask this particularly to our Canadian guests, because this is a Canadian questionnaire. This was given to athletes ahead of both Rio and Pyeongchang. And we're learning that a lot of you obviously do sort of a media day, I guess, before the Olympics, and you do a lot of questionnaires, a lot of interviews. So you don't have one published on the website for Rio, but maybe you were given this questionnaire. Do you ever remember filling a questionnaire called My Name Is, where you're sort of getting to know yourself questions and drawing some silly pictures and things like that?
MANDY BUJOLD: Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how many things like that you fill out over time, but yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: They all sort of blend together. Well, yeah. Unfortunately, yours, if you did, never made it online, but we've chosen today to go with Erika Wee from wrestling, just because we thought combat sport, there's no boxes on here. And again, if you want to draw, you're always welcome to. There's always, if you want to send us in, we can publish it on our social media. You could probably do a bit of a better job than Erika here. That's a very interesting frame. Anyway, we'll start off with the first question. The greatest Olympian of all time is?
MANDY BUJOLD: The greatest Olympian. Oh, my goodness. I don't know. I mean, I'm such a Serena Williams fan. I'm going to say that, but like, I want to say, I want to say, like, most people would go with, like, Usain Bolt or, like, someone in sprinting.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I think Serena's a, I think she's a legitimate one. She's three four-time gold medallist off the top of my head. I know she's won at least one singles and two doubles gold. So, I mean, that's pretty incredible. Obviously, she's sort of a bigger athlete than the Olympics probably, but she's still a pretty good Olympian too, so.
COLIN HILDING: Next one would be, the first Olympics you remember watching was?
MANDY BUJOLD: 2012. No, I watched, I watched 2008 because I had started boxing, and I know we had, we had a Canadian in there boxing, so I did watch 2008.
COLIN HILDING: Which is really sad.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's not an age thing we know, because you said before about sort of with the Olympics sort of growing up. So that, that, that we're fine with that. If you could be any superhero, who would it be?
MANDY BUJOLD: Um, ooh, that's a good one. Maybe Wonder Woman?
BEN WATERWORTH: Great answer. I want to be Wonder Woman too. I just, I'm just, I feel like I never admit that.
COLIN HILDING: Absolutely. Uh, your favourite ice cream flavour is? Oh, okay.
MANDY BUJOLD: This is like a really easy one for me, because basically when I'm training every Sunday, I go get ice cream. Um, so I usually get a double dark chocolate mixed with peanut butter.
BEN WATERWORTH: Ooh, nice.
COLIN HILDING: I always get so hungry at this part of the questionnaire.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. Now there's some questions in here that you sort of regret. You never ask these on an empty stomach, basically. Um, here's a good question, actually, because obviously boxing, there's plenty of movies sort of about this. So this could be something maybe you've thought about. I don't know. In a movie about your life, who would play you?
MANDY BUJOLD: Oh, gosh. Um, I don't know. I'm so bad with, like, names of actors. Can I play myself?
BEN WATERWORTH: We're not going to say no, because we know you're pretty good at fighting.
COLIN HILDING: I mean, hey, Muhammad Ali played himself in the biopic. There you go. Appropriate for your sport. If you weren't an athlete, then you would be. Feel free to answer actress.
MANDY BUJOLD: Stunt woman. No, I'm going to say, oh, like a chef.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, nice.
COLIN HILDING: I'm getting hungrier.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yep. That's that food element. Do you have, like, do you cook a lot? Do you have, like, a speciality go-to dish that you always like cooking?
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, no, I just I just love. I love cooking. I love baking. Basically anything, really. Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, we're going to go into another food question. We like to torture ourselves.
COLIN HILDING: I'm going to take a break, take a snack while you're doing this.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, speaking of snacks, what is your guilty pleasure snack?
MANDY BUJOLD: It's probably the ice cream. Yeah, ice cream, and it's got mix-ins in it, like just lots of chocolate. Chocolate's a good one.
COLIN HILDING: Yeah. This one is one of the trickier questions, but if you can answer, think one, if not, just go with the song. Your favourite song lyric is? A specific lyric from a song that you really love.
MANDY BUJOLD: Oh, my goodness. I don't know.
COLIN HILDING: I'm gonna fly now.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah. The Rocky songs. I don't even know. I don't even know what my favourite song is right now.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm thinking either Tauke or my favourite song.
MANDY BUJOLD: That's definitely a great one for making videos, but I don't know. I'm going to pass on that. I'm never good at naming songs or movies or anything like that. I don't pay enough attention.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I'm glad this isn't one of those ones where there's a lot more. I mean, there's a question now, though. I don't know how this will fit into that. But if you do sort of have the time, the most recent TV show that you binge watched is?
MANDY BUJOLD: There's a show. I think it's called Good Girls on Netflix. It's like the mums that are like turning into like money laundering. Yeah, it's hilarious. So, yeah, that's probably the last show I watched. But again, I don't watch TV very much.
COLIN HILDING: Your favourite place in the world to compete is?
MANDY BUJOLD: Compete? I mean, anywhere in Europe is pretty awesome. Italy?
BEN WATERWORTH: Good answer. I like it. Now, I'm going to change. Like I sometimes do this just because I look at the question here, and there's other questions on different questions that I like that I always want to have on. So I'm changing this one up, Colin. I'm not even telling you that I'm changing this one up. Growing up, who was your favourite sports team?
MANDY BUJOLD: Um, I mean, like I said, I don't really watch sports.
BEN WATERWORTH: I was wondering when you said you watched the hockey playoffs, because this is just more of a person. Was there a team that you kind of always, you know, cheered for?
MANDY BUJOLD: Well, no, it was just whatever my dad was cheering for.
COLIN HILDING: Did he like the leafs? Please tell me he liked the leafs.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, my dad definitely liked the leaves. I feel like my brother liked Boston.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow.
COLIN HILDING: Your dad and brother were mortal enemies, I think.
MANDY BUJOLD: We were kind of all over the place.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's all right. You got pain from the leafs. That works.
COLIN HILDING: I'm going to skip right to the end here, because Erica has about, I don't know, 1700 questions here. This is a good one to end on, though. I'm really liking the answers we're getting for this. The best nickname you've ever been called is? Oh, nickname.
MANDY BUJOLD: Oh, my gosh. I don't even know. Mean Mandy? Mean Mandy.
COLIN HILDING: That's appropriate.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, Mean Mandy or, yeah. I don't really have, it's funny. I don't even have a boxing name. Most boxers have...
COLIN HILDING: Mean Mandy sounds like a good boxing name.
MANDY BUJOLD: Well, that's exactly like it was like whenever I would beat someone up inspiring my teammates, would obviously be like, Mean Mandy.
BEN WATERWORTH: Someone that announced it to be like, Mean Mandy. Kind of just goes in there. Okay. Just before we let you go, Mandy, as always, we like to give our guests an opportunity to plug whatever you like, social media, websites, sort of anything that maybe listeners can keep up to date with you or sort of anything else that you sort of want to promote before we let you go.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, I guess the best way for people to kind of follow along my journey or I do post lots of different fun training videos is probably on Instagram. And that's just my name, so at Mandy Bujold. Yeah, that's probably the best way.
COLIN HILDING: All right. I mean, this definitely lived up. You had a million stories to tell. It was great having you on the show, and I'm very much looking forward. I think there is a potential here for possibly 2032, you in the corner of KO in the Olympics.
BEN WATERWORTH: Come to Brisbane. You missed out on Gold Coast. Brisbane's calling. Like, you know, Australia wants you here, Mandy. Come on.
MANDY BUJOLD: Yeah, it would be quite amazing, absolutely.
COLIN HILDING: And that was fantastic, like we said it would be, so... We live up to our word, right?
BEN WATERWORTH: Sometimes.
COLIN HILDING: Sometimes, yes.
BEN WATERWORTH: Today we did.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, snappy Colin.
COLIN HILDING: We gotta get the Patreon started from... We got more people listening to Off The Podium, and we're still trying to get patrons for our other shows.
BEN WATERWORTH: Colin, we've had two patrons for our other shows, and I think we've had one Patreon sign up between both, so I'm kind of not too confident on the... And plus, we play sort of copyright music on this show, so maybe we probably couldn't get away with it. So, sorry, John Williams.
COLIN HILDING: He has the wealth to spread around, but... No, that was great. I mean, I think when we do our next Best Of show, I mean, we got plenty... We could just pick the Pan Am game story, and that's good enough on its own, but all the other stuff from there is great. Obviously, follow Mandy. She's still pretty active on social media, like she said. And we've got more stuff coming up. How close are we now to Beijing?
BEN WATERWORTH: Very close. Colin... It's just, look, it's hard to just kind of pinpoint. I want to say, like, right now, the day of recording this, I have a scheduled day for this to air. And so I could literally right now be like, it's a certain amount of weeks away. But the difficulty there is, if all of a sudden we get another 20 interviews and I have to bump this up earlier than we thought, then it kind of sounds awkward. So...
COLIN HILDING: That's why we cut the Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from our opening.
BEN WATERWORTH: And it's also why we haven't announced the news that Beijing got cancelled and postponed a year, which is going to throw all of these bloody interviews up the windfall all of a sudden, you know, Delta.30 takes over the world and we're all zombies by the time this airs. So let's just say that it's soon. All right?
COLIN HILDING: It's soon.
BEN WATERWORTH: So is Paris, so is LA, so is Brisbane, so is Milan. They're all coming soon.
COLIN HILDING: By the time you heard this, we might be that close to Brisbane. So that's exciting. We're almost there.
BEN WATERWORTH: We are a day closer to Brisbane than we were in the last interview, Colin, so.
COLIN HILDING: Get ready, KO is coming.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes.
COLIN HILDING: A KO from KO. I really want that to happen. If KO just has zero interest in boxing, that will be a shame, but maybe there's something else that KO can apply to.
BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, we've had athletes on the show where their last name just screams their sport. There was a famous Formula One driver from America. His name was Scott Speed. I mean, it's just kind of like it's just you should be in your sport.
COLIN HILDING: Usain Bolt.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, exactly. Right. So, uh, Lightning McQueen. Clearly, he was meant to get into car racing. Um, it was obvious from day one. That's what he was doing. But, um, yeah, KO. I'm looking forward to it. And also, KO, great sports broadcaster in Australia, please sponsor us.
COLIN HILDING: Yes, please do. Then we can stop asking our listeners for money.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which we've never done before until Colin just made it all for us. That's why Colin never on these episodes, he's poor at everything he does. We need money, Ben. Stop putting these out for free.
COLIN HILDING: I'm the one who makes money on our podcast. I'm doing this for your benefit.
BEN WATERWORTH: You actually have a job. What's that like?
COLIN HILDING: Anyways, make sure to like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, Instagram. It's free in all those places. If you want to find our two to five year old episodes on YouTube, it's free on there. Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, free everywhere. We're the free Olympic podcast, the one and only, the one and only called Off The Podium. Thank you, Ben. This was fun again.
BEN WATERWORTH: It was always fun with you, Colin. Thank you.
COLIN HILDING: And let me see if I get this right. This has been Off The Podium and turn left.
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