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Mack Horton Interview

Mar 25, 2022
58 min read

An exciting episode to bring you today as we sit down and chat with one of Australia's favourite swimmers in two-time Olympian and Gold Medallist Mack Horton to chat about his incredible career and Olympic experiences! We find out from Mack just what it was about swimming that took him to the successes he has achieved and why it was the only real sport he focused on growing up. We also learn about a chance meeting with an iconic Australian swimmer who set him on an Olympic path and just why the history around a certain event helped spur him on more. Added to this we learn more about his love for all things hummus and just how he compares the joy of watching his beloved Melbourne Demons winning a premiership to that of winning an Olympic Gold Medal. It's an incredible chat that you will love so get to listening and avoid missing out!





EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.



BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, an Olympics podcast coming to you today for an exciting interview. So excited to bring this one to you today. We are speaking with the one, the only Mack Horton, one of Australia's favourite swimmers. Everybody loves Mack. I want a t-shirt that says everybody loves Mack. Of course, Olympic champion from Rio in the 400 metres, also a bronze medallist, part of the four by 200 metre relay team in Tokyo, world champion, multiple Commonwealth Games, gold medallist. And this is a great chat with Mack, learning a lot about his journey into the sport of swimming, his days going up the ranks, kind of moving through, how close he actually came to the London Olympics, could have seen him swimming in London as a 16 year old. And also how he went from being a 1500 metre swimmer to winning the 400 metres at the Rio Olympics. It's quite an interesting story how that all played a part of it. A fun chat here. You're gonna love every single second of this. So sit back, relax and listen to our chat with Olympic Champion Mack Horton.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So excited for our guest today on Off The Podium, a man who needs little introduction. He's an Olympic champion, a world champion, multiple Commonwealth Games medallist, and something that I'm intrigued to talk about, a hommus connoisseur, which I think maybe needs to be introduced more when you introduce him on shows like this. It's a pleasure to welcome to the show Mack Horton. Mack, welcome to the program. It's a pleasure to chat with you today.

 

MACK HORTON: Thank you, I'm instantly regretting putting that in my Instagram profile.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, everyone goes for the whole, like, yeah, I won an Olympic gold medal. Sure, that's kind of cool. But I mean, homers, like talk more about homers. It's great.

 

MACK HORTON: I love homers. My favourite, well, I think best value for money is Umi's, the big like one litre tub. I can honestly, I could smash one of those in a day if someone, if I needed to, or if I felt like it and didn't want, like I was okay to feel sick for a bit, I could do it. Yep, yep, but yeah, I like to delve and adventure different homesses, homessesies.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Homess-i. Homess-i, what is the plural of homess? Kind of going that way. I remember in Canada at Costco, they would have like, I think it was like a $5 odd thing, and it was like a, yeah, one kilo, two, it was giant, but it was so good. And you just couldn't stop eating it. You were like, oh, I shouldn't probably have another couple of crackers of this, but fuck it, I'm just gonna go to town.

 

MACK HORTON: With, you know, lockdowns in Melbourne and stuff, and you're only allowed to eat mix, the go-to is the Yumi's Homestom. You just cut up some carrots and crackers. You don't need anything else. That's a meal.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly. That's why, and I'm sure it works with the training regimen too, right? Like, is it the worst thing you could eat?

 

MACK HORTON: Good protein, I think.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, kind of, it turns into the secret of Olympians. You know, there you go. I remember Kieran Perkins used to write his name on your milk. You should be getting a homesteele here, right? Mack Horton's name on some hollis, come on.

 

MACK HORTON: If they won it on the carp, sure thing.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I found a very intriguing stat about your gold medal win back in Rio, that you were the first male Victorian swimmer to win an Olympic gold medal. How is that a thing? 124 years of Olympic history and no male Victorian swimmer had ever won an Olympic gold medal. I mean, if that was a Tasmanian bag out my own state. Like I took it to Arianne to win an individual gold medal. There's that record broken. But Victoria, this should be a thing, right? You should be producing lots of swimmers.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, I don't know how that's a thing. I mean, I think I'm the first Victorian individual male. I don't think it's first. Yeah, so I think-

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So there's some relay members there at some point, right?

 

MACK HORTON: We had some relay members win it. But yeah, it's pretty crazy that Victoria has, I don't want to say failed to get medals up until this point. But I mean, so many swimmers have come through Victoria and unfortunately a lot actually end up moving into statement stuff, which is the thing that happens when swimming, just mainly around climate. But yeah, it's pretty cool and it's pretty special. Particularly, I mean, Melbourne and Victoria is a city that loves their sports so much. And we have so many iconic sporting events, it's cool to be. It is a long title, the first individual male swimmer to win the Olympic gold medal. But I'll take it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You take it. That doesn't quite fit on the Instagram. No, you can't have that and hummus connoisseur, right? You kind of have to choose one.

 

MACK HORTON: I'm much more about the hummus lines.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's interesting. You say about the whole the relocation, because that's what, you know, as a Tasmanian, we kind of got a bit annoyed during the whole Tokyo thing, where it was like it was almost like the way the commentators are wording it, like, oh, she moved from the depths of Tasmania, Arian, Mr. Queen. She was being held back by the the archaic state of Tasmania. But it's it's been great that she sort of embraced it when she's come back and gone to a school and launched this. Because that that was a great stat that we were covering during Tokyo, that Tasmania had never had an individual Olympic gold medallist before. All our gold medallists in any sport, in any sport. So like hockey, rowing, cycling, they've all been members of teams. But it was our first ever individual Olympic gold medallist. So Queensland stopped stealing Arian away. I realise she lives there, but she is a Tasmanian. We know our Tasmanians. She's out.

 

MACK HORTON: And Queensland are very quick to say, oh, she's a Queenslander. But it's kind of, you gotta go off state of origin, I think.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly.

 

MACK HORTON: Which they would very quickly go to in rugby or NRL or whatever that sport is. I don't know, because I'm from Victoria. So we have to play by the same rules.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. It goes that way. Just quickly on that, actually, I feel like one thing I want to talk to you about at the time of recording is I believe you're a demon supporter. Are you still celebrating? Is it still something that you've calmed down from? Because this means something you just want to shout to the hills, right?

 

MACK HORTON: Yes, I'm a demon supporter. It was fantastic to see it finally happen. I think it was probably bittersweet being in Melbourne for it, though, when it was over in WA. I mean, so many people have waited so long to see them pull it off and to be in the midst of a very harsh lockdown was kind of cruel. But, yeah, I haven't been in Melbourne while they've started opening up, but I'm sure everyone will begin to start celebrating now. And I think they're going to do a tour with the car and what have you. So it's very exciting for Demons fans out there.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Can you honestly relate? Like, this might sound like a dumb question, but as a sports fan, I think anybody could probably relate to this. Can you compare watching your beloved demons winning an AFL premiership to winning an Olympic gold medal? Because, I mean, like, seriously, like with Olympic gold medal, it's a great achievement. But if you've supported a club like that for your entire life, not literally in your lifetime, have they won a premiership? And you've seen this. Like, can you compare the two?

 

MACK HORTON: Well, I mean, Demons winning a premiership won in 57 years. And then I don't know how many Olympic gold medals they hand out every Olympics, but there'd be a couple of hundred every four years. So I think demons winning is rarer and more special.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly, exactly. I mean, look, I'm a cult supporter and like, you know, I can complain about lack of success, but I mean, come on. You couldn't do that until recently. You'd be telling me to shut up 20 years ago.

 

MACK HORTON: Yes. When was your last one?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You know, 95, 95. So the year before you were born, I think. So I remember it. I was alive. I remember it. I was eight. So at least I can say I remember it.

 

MACK HORTON: Are you like a diehard sporting buff? All sports?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, too much. It's a bit sad sometimes just because it is a case of the teams you end up going for, you think to yourself, why? Like, why do I torture myself, you know, with that? It's kind of like you just, but I'm loyal, you know, like it's sort of like cult. I mean, I've seen some like Cronulla fans. So I was lucky enough to go to that grand final, see them break the drought. Raptors fans saw them win a championship.

 

MACK HORTON: I don't even know what these sports are though.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Just nod and smile, Mack, it's fine. They won something every now and then, but...

 

MACK HORTON: Well done to them.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, exactly. Go team. But for yourself growing up, you know, swimming, it's such a sport that many Australians, well, pretty much all Australians, we do at some point and we've got to learn to swim. But what was it that kind of took you over that edge to take the competitive route and kind of pursue this as something that you wanted to go towards?

 

MACK HORTON: I don't know if there was an edge that was like, this is the competitive route I want to go down. It was just, I loved swimming and it's fun. And I loved pushing myself. There's, I've like quite fond memories of when I first joined swimming squad and I was maybe 10 or 11, everyone else in the squad was like 15 or 16. And I would just rock up and just try and chase them down for like an hour and a half. And it was just the best fun. And then I guess it just kind of evolves over the years and it's like, how can I continue to push myself? And how can I, I guess, prove that I push myself harder than everyone else? And that just happens to be racing. But you touched on a point that I love about being Australian is that everyone, I mean, you just have to learn to swim because we're surrounded by water and it's such a big part of our culture to go to the beach or lake or the river and get wet, basically, so I just love that it's so deeply entrenched in our DNA.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which it's fascinating talking to athletes from other countries or say some of the winter athletes where it's kind of like, yeah, we grew up near the mountain, so skiing was part of school. And to an Australian, that's so foreign. It's like, wow, skiing in school, whereas sometimes-

 

MACK HORTON: It's also way cooler than swimming.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, on many levels on that one. Whereas there are some countries where it's like, in Canada, it was like a thing like, oh, you like swimming like that age? Like it's sort of like, well, yeah, we're kind of surrounded by water. So it's sort of, it's often more of a safety thing, right? Like it's kind of, we need to learn how to swim.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, and skiing would be too, it'd be a safety thing. Like if you're living up on the mountain, you have to know how to navigate the mountains and maybe avalanches and stuff like that. So yeah, it's just one of those things that we grow up doing. And I guess that's why our GDP for Olympic swimming or whatever is so good compared to other nations.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Were you a very sporty kid with other pursuits? Like were you dreaming of pulling on the blue and red for the Demons one day? Were you doing Aussie rules and things like that as well as swimming?

 

MACK HORTON: It's funny you bring this up because I've been reflecting on this, particularly around the Demons winning the premiership. I used to hate football at school. And it's because I was, I mean, I was always swimming and I didn't really do other sports because it took up so much time. And then, you know, at lunchtime, whatever, everyone would be kicking the footy. And I was just, I'm completely uncoordinated because I'm a swimmer. And so I like almost despised it. You don't watch it. I was like, I can't be involved in this. And then I was, I, you know, thinking back, I was like, look at all these like sporty people, these sporty athletes. And then it's like, I am the sports person now. It's like, I just never thought I would be a sports person because I hated all sports, but I just loved swimming.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So what would you do instead? Were you kind of like in the library or something instead, or like, you know, kind of doing non-sporting activities?

 

MACK HORTON: Just sitting around and chatting or eating. I like half of my lunchtime was probably eating because I was so hungry all the time. Or like, honestly, I just had no energy at school. I mean, I was waking up at 4.30, swimming, coming straight to school, then swimming after school again, getting home at like six. And so that were big days. And so, I mean, even if I was coordinated, I probably didn't have the capacity to be participating.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Keep doing it, keep doing it that way. Were you somebody that would watch the Olympics? Was that kind of something that kind of came to you while you were swimming, or were you an Olympics fan sort of before you took swimming further, the way you did?

 

MACK HORTON: No, no, I definitely watched the Olympics. I remember watching it in... I have a really clear memory of Beijing, 2008. I remember I'd met Grant Hackett a couple of years earlier in Melbourne when the, must have been the World Championships or Comm Games or at MSAC or something. And I bumped into him at the front, got a photo with him. As a kid, I didn't really know who he was at that point in time, but he had like this presence around him. And I was like, oh, he's an athlete. I should get a photo with him. He's famous. Well, I went home and Googled him. And I was like, this is my man. This 1500 man is my man. And so I have this like really clear memory of Beijing 2008. I knew the 1500 was on during the day while I was at school. And I was like, no one tell me. Mum recorded it for me. I got home, sat down in front of the couch, like on the floor, just like glued to the screen and watched it. And I mean, I have other little snippets of memories of watching the Olympics, but that's like the clearest one. I was like, wow, this is, the Olympics is the real thing. It's the dream.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Cause that was, I mean, obviously that was the last time we've meddled in the 1500 metres, but that was really almost like the end of this golden era of 1500 metres swimming for Australia, wasn't it? I mean, it's just through Kieran and then through Grant, it was just, that was the event. That was the one, if any Olympics came around, you're like, well, 1500 metres is ours, no one is touching it. I mean, was that kind of a bit of a draw to you that once you Googled it, you knew who this guy was, like you kind of learned a bit of the history and it was like, wow, this is this event that is just amazing. This is Australia's event at the Olympics.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, I think, I mean, I used to swim 1500 as well, as I'm sure you probably know. And I think, you know, part of the draw to me doing it was understanding that history and understanding that it is Australia's event. But then also just, it's the hardest event there is. And it's just cool to, I mean, just the respect and I guess what you have to put your body through and the challenge of, you know, tackling an event that is that big is special. And if you can do it, it's like, why wouldn't you? There's a lot of people that potentially, you know, could do it, but shy away from all the work and stuff. I just think, you know, you got to make the most of, you know, if you have the talent and the ability to do it, you got to go after it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: And with that sort of talent and ability, is that something that gets discovered while you're kind of going through the ranks that maybe you're going to be more attuned to the distance events rather than the sprinting, or does it come down more to a personal preference that you want to challenge yourself for the further events rather than just doing the 100 metres?

 

MACK HORTON: I think, I mean, there's an aspect of physical ability, but then also, I guess, like mental capacity. It's pretty hard to find, you know, a 13, 14, 15 year old kid who's willing to push themselves that hard. You have to be a little bit nuts. But for me, I bounced around quite a bit actually, trying to find the event that best suited me. I actually started doing backstroke. Well, I was pretty young though, so it was like, we'll just toy around with backstroke for a bit and then kind of did freestyle. And I mean, when you're like that young, you can rock up every second weekend and swim a 200 and take 10 seconds off your PV. And it's the best thing ever. But I just progressively got longer and longer and longer. And I think what kept me getting longer and longer was just getting enjoyment out of those events. And I enjoyed the hard work, but also just finding the rhythm. And I guess 1500 is almost like meditation, because if you aren't relaxed in that, in those 15 minutes, then it's going to hurt a lot more. So it's almost like a forced meditation. And I guess you learn a bit about yourself through that process as well.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: That's a great way of looking at it, actually, because it was always the event that I loved watching growing up. You know, I remember a similar thing to you, sort of saying, like, I don't want to be spoiled on the event. I think it was Atlanta. I was playing hockey or something along those lines. And it was like, I knew that was on that morning. So I'm like, I don't want to be spoiled. I know this is going to happen. And you kind of, you go home and you just, you're enthralled by watching, obviously, what happened there with Kieran's win. But it's just, it's always been the event that has fascinated me because it also seems so strategic. Like in the fact that you've got to no doubt pick and choose when you swim faster or kind of, you know, okay, I'm going to conserve the energy and everything along those lines too. So it's sort of, it's always that unique aspect of the 1,500 metres.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I think part of the draw to Australians and Australians swimming 1,500 is that historically, we've probably had the most cuts. I mean, you look at the way Kieran Grant swam it, they would just go out and just hope that they could hang on. And just, it's taken many years for the rest of the world to catch on, I think, and to figure out how to, I guess, back themselves in to swimming 1,500 like that. And I mean, you see, I think in Tokyo, even a little bit, there was a bit of maybe complacency at the start of that 1,500. It's very easy to fall into the trap of waiting for someone else to make a move or just all sitting together and swimming off for the last 100 or whatever, which almost like tunes in to what happens in open water. And so, I mean, that history of going out really hard, I don't know if you remember in Rio, Jared Port was in the 10K and he went out max from the start. I think he had a three-minute gap on everyone. And it's only something in Australia to do, to try and push themselves that hard, with the hopes that maybe they'll hang on. And he almost pulled it off. But yeah, it's an element of bravery, I think.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I like that. Was there any of a temptation to look at open water swimming? Kind of like you talk about pushing yourself, like go for the longer, 1500, that's nothing, 10K, why not?

 

MACK HORTON: No, it's too much of a push. I think, I mean, you have to be built for it as well, as an element of that. And I mean, to be good in open water and chop, you probably need like a shorter length of a stroke, so that your rate sits a bit higher, otherwise you get thrown around too much. And my stroke's a bit too long for that.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: And also you got to deal with fish, wasn't it in Tokyo? There was bloody fish jumping around everywhere.

 

MACK HORTON: And I also can't see anything as it is, so. It's just navigating, yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: How does that actually work with like, are you wearing contacts in the pool? Or is like, are your glasses kind of like, are your goggles, sorry, prescription goggles? Like does that, do you need that?

 

MACK HORTON: Yes, Speedo make me like prescription goggles so I can see.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: That's crazy.

 

MACK HORTON: Special order.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Is that common? Like is that sort of something that a lot of swimmers actually do?

 

MACK HORTON: Not really. Most people would just throw contacts in, but then, I mean, I like wearing glasses, so then I wouldn't wear glasses if I had contacts, you know, I have to take my glasses off for my goggles on, et cetera. It's all about keeping up appearances.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, yes, exactly. You've got to look to maintain, Mack. We all know you with the glasses, but all of a sudden you're like, no, I'm gonna wear a condom. Who's that guy?

 

MACK HORTON: Oh, do you recognise me?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: That's not Mack Horton, he wears glasses. Don't know who that guy is. Sort of as you're progressing through the ranks, Junior, PAM PACs, kind of Youth Olympic Festival, things along those lines. Was there a point when you set the goal for Rio? This became sort of a realistic goal that you thought, okay, this is possible. I could be at the Olympics in 2016.

 

MACK HORTON: I think in 2012, I signed at the Olympic trials, and I was in the 1500 then. And I think maybe in the back of my mind, I was like, maybe I could make it. I was 16 at the time, and I led 1,450 metres of the 1500 trials. And so I came second, and the selection for swimming is you have to be first or second, and you have to be under the A qualifying time. So second, but not under the A qualifying time. And so I think, you know, that was kind of unexpected. I kind of didn't... I mean, there's always, as a kid, there's like in the back of your mind, like, oh, yeah, I want to do this. Maybe I could do this. But I think after that, it's like, okay, genuinely, I could have a serious crack at, you know, making the Australian team. And I mean, you know, from that Olympics to the next one's four years, obviously. So it's a realistic timeframe to make a big push and I guess solidify a spot.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: And in terms of that focus on the 1500 metres, how did you at that point sort of balance it between say the 400 or obviously like, you've got 800 at world championships. I mean, was to you, your event, the 1500 metres and the 400 was secondary or kind of was it just a bit of a balance between the two?

 

MACK HORTON: I think it was, yeah, 1500 was my event and then 400 was probably secondary, but mainly out of like, it had to be secondary to help my 1500 get better. And same with the 200. It's like out of necessity, I had to have a decent 100, 200 and 400 to be able to progress to 1500, because you need to be able to swim fast easily. And so, I mean, if I could choose, I probably at that time, I probably would have just been 1500, but it was out of necessity that I had to have decent other events.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: How amazing is that moment when you crack the 15 minutes? Is that like that glorious barrier that as you're going up, you kind of, you're getting there and when you do, you're like, wow, okay, I've done it. I've cracked the 15.

 

MACK HORTON: It is pretty good. I actually can't remember when I did it, which sounds really bad. I think I, I reckon I went 1501 once, and I was like, damn, it's so close. And then maybe my next one would have been like a 1456 or something. And it's, yeah, it's, it's like the four minute mile. But then also there's the realisation once you've cracked it, that, you know, you get to an Olympics for World Championships and you have to crack it comfortably in the heat and then well and truly crack it again in the final. So it's, I mean, you just have to swim under 15 minutes now if you want to get to that level.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of Commonwealth Games 2014, come away from Glasgow with a gold and a four by two, a silver and 1500 metres, just fast forwarding a little bit, then add in the Gold Coast as well. Just what are your sort of experiences like at a Commonwealth Games? Because I always loved the Commonwealth Games. The Commonwealth Games to me, I've always said is kind of like, this is how America must feel at the Olympics, right? They just win everything. So it's like the Commonwealth Games, Australia win everything. So like, this is fantastic. But I mean, do you remember sort of that first experience, kind of a big multi-sport event like that? And does that like also help you then towards when you're experiencing an Olympics a couple of years later?

 

MACK HORTON: I think for me, I remember at the time thinking, you know, this is like the perfect stepping stone, because my first team was the 2014 Commonwealth Games, and it was Worlds next year, and then Olympics, obviously, after that. And I guess, you know, in terms of the swim mate part, they build up in intensity and focus, and that progression slowly built me up and got me ready for the Olympics. But it's also the first taste I had of a like village environment. And the village is just wild. Like, you just can't explain it. It's just like a theme park for sports people, I guess. And it's just, I mean, I remember in Tokyo, and it's the same for all village environments, but Tokyo is the closest one, so it's easy to reflect on. Just sitting outside the dining hall and just watching everyone walk past, it's like, wow, there's just so many incredible human beings here, and they're all trying to achieve the same thing. It's just the coolest thing.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which is it more relaxed at a Commonwealth Games? Like, is it kind of a bit more of a, you know, chill-out-y?

 

MACK HORTON: As an Australian swimmer, particularly. And I mean, Gold Coast was probably the most fun I've ever had, because I don't want to sound arrogant, or the dolphin just destroyed the pool.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You can be arrogant, it's true, you know?

 

MACK HORTON: So it was good fun. And in fact, I know Home Proud, and I mean, that's the first time I've ever had a meet of that scale in front of a Home Proud, so it's, yeah, it's just super special.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: One thing too, at any else, Tokyo was a bit different because you couldn't do it, but at any of these Olympics Commonwealth Games, going out and watching different sports. Now I actually have a story about you, weirdly enough, from the Gold Coast. I worked at the Commonwealth Games. I worked boxing. I was the mixed zone group leader. And at one point, sort of we're there, and it was in between bouts, and somebody kind of was like, we'd always spot, try and spot people in the crowd. And we had like the prime minister, or president of Nehru in at one point, like Prince Andrew. It was kind of cool. Anastasia showed up one time. And also I was like, oh, Ben, look, he's up in the crowd. Mack Horton, there he is. I'm kind of like, oh, there he is. There's Mack, there's children there watching the boxing. So did you enjoy the boxing on the Commonwealth Games?

 

MACK HORTON: I enjoyed the boxing. Kong Games is the, I mean, you go to the Olympics, and you have a dream of seeing a little sports, but it's pretty hard to pull off. But Kong Games in a home country, you can get away with anything. So I saw boxing, lawn bowls, athletics, like just everything.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: It was amazing. How was lawn bowls? I sadly didn't get to the lawn bowls, but I wish I had of.

 

MACK HORTON: We went the night, an Australian won gold and like ripped off his top. There was like, I can't remember his name though. Everyone was incredibly rowdy.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Nice, nice, nice. Did you get it, while you were out sort of out where the boxing was, did you sneak into the table tennis or the squash? Because that was kind of all at the same area. It was kind of a great little venue area.

 

MACK HORTON: I think we had planned on doing it, but we couldn't, either there wasn't something on or we couldn't sneak in. I can't remember. But I remember thinking we're going to tick off a lot of things and it just didn't work.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I will say that was a slight benefit of the boxing, given that you had like a morning session and an evening session. It was like a three hour window in between. And kind of, you know, it was all right with some of the accreditation. I'm just going to go watch the table tennis on my lunch break. Why not? You know, just.

 

MACK HORTON: Was this a volunteer role?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Were you volunteering? No, I was an actual employee of Goldock. So proud employee, Mack. It was, I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun.

 

MACK HORTON: I say, when I'm done swimming, I just want to be involved anyway. I can't round the village, right? Doing, I don't know, anything. Just like watch the sport and be a part of it. Because, I mean, I've lived one side and I know how amazing, you know, those sorts of events can be.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: It's actually really fascinating because like I've spent the majority of my time as a journalist or a radio host. So this was kind of the first time where I'm, you know, as you know, you go through the mix zone and kind of you're being ferric to talk to the journalist. So I'm that guy who's like getting you off the pool deck, going like, hey, he's the journalist to speak to. So it was kind of strange dealing with journalists and like going like, I'm usually one of you. And realising some of them can be dicks. I'm like, okay, am I that way? But then it's also like the thing I found fascinating because I didn't know anything about boxing. I'd never really experienced it. But like meeting the athletes and kind of seeing that and just, as with any sport, the pure passion and emotion. I mean, I nearly got decapitated, I think, by a Samoan boxer who threw his water bottle basically directly at my head because he'd lost. And then there was another athlete, I can't remember where he was from, but he was so pissed off that he'd lost. And one of our volunteers, you know, because they were doing it for the games media website, was just kind of like, oh, like, like, how do you feel? Like you're obviously disappointed. It's bullshit, it's fucking bullshit. I'm so fucking angry, I'm fucking bullshit. This poor fella. Thanks for your time.

 

MACK HORTON: I think, I mean, we're quite lucky in Australia that, you know, if we don't swim well or perform well, we're probably gonna be fine and live a fairly comfortable life. But for a lot of people, you know, when they come to a Commonwealth Games or Olympics, it's like their families, lives and futures depend on them performing. So the passion and the emotion is there. And I guess desperation in some aspects as well.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it is. And it's also like the aspect of like, say a Commonwealth Games too, where again, all jokes aside, Australia, we do very well. Whereas like some of these smaller countries where this is almost like their Olympics, right? Like, you know, they may be never gonna achieve an Olympic spot. So this is as high as they can go. So it's kind of that element of pride that some of these smaller nations have by getting to a Commonwealth Games.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, definitely.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: It's very, very interesting. What was that moment like at the trials before Rio to make it sort of, you mentioned sort of London, get so close, but then all of a sudden, boom, you're going into, I mean, obviously having a very good year in 2016. You had a good year in 2015 with the World Champs as well. But, you know, do you remember that sort of moment that the first time you knew you were officially then gonna be going to the Olympics?

 

MACK HORTON: I think just sheer relief. 2015, we had World Championships in Kazan, Russia, and I picked up a parasite. I lost like five kilos in three days. I was just crook as. I swam, I don't think I made the fine on the 400 or the 1500. I'd made it in the 800, and I think I somehow got to a bronze medal. Anyway, it took me a couple of months to recover, antibiotics, whatever. And, you know, I was coming in, and maybe I'd only get through 3K sessions just because my body couldn't handle it. And so that like last push towards Rio trials was big. It was, yeah, it took a lot. And it's like, am I gonna be ready? And, you know, so once I touched that wall in the 400, I had the position. It's just relief. And then the beauty of the 400 trials and most events is it's on the first night. And that is a beautiful thing because you can relax for the rest of the week. And just enjoy it, you know, try and pick up a spot in the 200 or another event and just support everyone else as well who's going through, you know, I mean, I think trials is more stressful than the Olympics. There's more pressure. In some events, it's probably harder to make a final at our trials than the Olympics as well. So yeah, once you take it off, it's good.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which at that point, too, I mean, going into Rio, you were the fastest 400 metre swimmer in the world. I mean, was that kind of, was there a switch? Like, were you all of a sudden focusing more on the 400 or was it just things kind of fell into limer all of a sudden you go, hang on a minute, why am I so good at the 400? I want to be concentrated on the 1500, but I'm doing all right in the 400 as well.

 

MACK HORTON: I think, you know, being sick in Russia, I probably didn't get as much like endurance work in. And so we slowly kind of realised that maybe we wouldn't be ready for the 1500 and kind of shifted our pace work and stuff to 400. And I think I was like kind of partly in denial. I still, I was still going to the Olympics thinking, you know, the 1500 is my best shot.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: It's hilarious.

 

MACK HORTON: And then, you know, as we got closer and closer, I got more and more confident in the 400. And I was like, okay, well, it's difficult when you have an event at the start and the end of the week, particularly if you're split on probably what the priority is because tapers are so finely tuned and that's eight days difference and what can happen in eight days. Anyway, we set up the tapers for the 400. And yeah, I guess the belief just grew and grew. And then, you know, it's almost getting into that mindset of, you can't look forward or can't look towards the end of the week. It's just get through this and then you can think about whatever comes after that. So yeah, it just kind of happened naturally, I think. Is the answer to your question. I sort of, I'd dig to it there.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, winning an Olympic gold, it just happened naturally. Yeah, gold medal. Yeah, just there already, because you got to kind of all float in together.

 

MACK HORTON: That's not what I meant.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: But when you go into an event like that, knowing that you are the fastest in the world at that point, does it add pressure that you've kind of maybe got to live up to the fact that you are the fastest in the world at that point, or do you kind of take it more as a, I can take this on board and go, well, people have to catch me because I am the best in this one, and try and catch me if you can?

 

MACK HORTON: Neither. I don't really think about it, to be honest, which is a very boring answer, I know. But I think, I don't know how it happened, but I still felt like I was an underdog going into Rio and probably still like betrayed as an underdog going into Rio, because there were a lot of people that had still swum faster than I. I was just the fastest that year. And so I got the confidence of being the fastest that year, but then also, I guess, the ability to lay low with, my ranking against people's historical times.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which is also to the history that Australia has in the event. It's interesting you sort of talking about, watching the Olympics Beijing. I mean, I don't know if you sort of remember Athens and kind of seeing Thorpe and Hackett go one, two, or if you obviously, what about four around Sydney? So probably, don't remember all that sort of stuff. But I mean, outside of the 1500 metres around about that time, it was kind of an event that we have a storied history in it as well. So, it's always interesting. That is an event that Australians, we always have it. I mean, even in Tokyo just gone, like what? First night boom where we're straight away delving into the history of kind of what's gonna happen.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, I think that coming from the 1500 and having understanding of that history helped me to have an understanding, I guess, appreciation of the 400 history as well. In saying this though, this history in every event is just like successful history in the men's 400 and 1500. And I mean, partly, I still think we should have that world record in the 400 Australia, so we'll be able to take it off 0.01.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Anyway, whole other conversation, right? Won't happen to get into that. But I watched the race before this interview, just kind of had been a while since I'd watched it. And I mean, what was...

 

MACK HORTON: The way you said that is like, you know, I watch it every couple of weeks.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I do. Like it's literally, it's just like, what's it, Tuesday, three o'clock. Haven't watched Max Gold in a while. You know, I just kind of put it on. There it is. That and Atlanta 96. All I do in my life is watch your gold and carry gold from Atlanta. That's a privilege, thank you. That's it. It keeps me going, Mack. It keeps me fuelled up. But what is the strategy going into a final? Do you relate to what you do in the heat or kind of turn it up? What's your coach kind of saying to you at that point? And was everything executed perfectly? I mean, you win the gold. I'm guessing it was kind of executed perfectly, but did it all kind of fit into what the strategy was going into the race?

 

MACK HORTON: I think, you know, when you think about the Olympics, a lot of people think it's like a high performance environment, but it's actually not. And it's not about swimming the fastest time ever. It's about just racing and being the first one to the wall because realistically, the conditions of the Olympics aren't ideal. And so everyone's just dealing with the same thing and doing the best that they can. And so I guess we had a strategy based off racing and I guess like an internal feel of where my body's at. And it's a race strategy we practised over and over and over again, just like local swamings, stage championships, what have you, just the way I paced each 100 was something I was really familiar with so that when I did get there, I didn't have to think about it. But I didn't have to consciously change my strategy. I think a lot of people get to an Olympics and they're like, I see what so-and-so is doing from another country. That's a bit funky. I need to do something different or special to try and level up, but you actually just have to stick to the plan that you've been practising for the last four years, because that's what you know best, and that's what you know how to execute. And you don't have to tap into anything extra to execute a plan that you've been rehearsing. So for us, it was just, yeah, continuing to do the same thing, just a little bit faster.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: In that last 50, when you sort of go into that wall, you touched with the gold, I mean, how aware are you of sun next to you? Like, are you able to see, like, do you know as soon as you touch that you've won the gold, or is it literally that moment, because it's so close, you look up at the scoreboard and then realise that you've got the gold?

 

MACK HORTON: Aware, but also not aware, if that makes sense. I think I was aware of how close it was, particularly for the last 100. And a big aspect of us, our strategy was improving my turns a lot. And so that last turn was the fastest turn I've ever done. I think it's the fastest turn out of that whole field, and maybe the fastest turn anyone's ever done in a 400. I'm not sure. I don't have a lot of confidence in that point. So what was the question? Was I aware?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. Were you aware?

 

MACK HORTON: I think there's also an aspect of sheer pain on that last 50. Probably almost blacked out. The world kind of goes dark, my eyes are just closed. But on a finish, I think as a swimmy practise finishes so much that you are actually aware of where you place. I mean, it's the worst finish I've ever done and I probably could have gone a fair bit faster if I didn't look, but as I touched, I looked across to see if I got it. And so I knew I had it in that moment, but then you never actually know until you've seen the scoreboard. But then, of course, I couldn't see the scoreboard properly. So I had to wait till Dave McKeon, who was in the race in the Australian, came over. And he's like, you did it!

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I was wondering what he was saying to you because I'm watching the footage. I kind of like, you know, what he's being said at that moment.

 

MACK HORTON: A few bad words in there. And that was the gist.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Just, you know, you've done that, but like, when you realise, like, it's the question you no doubt get asked all the time, like, what's that feeling like when you touch the world, you're an Olympic champion, but within this time limit that has been out, the time record has been more than five years. Like, is it something that you compute more and more that the time goes on? Maybe if you watch the race a few more times and kind of see it, that it means something differently now reflecting on, okay, well, I am an Olympic champion.

 

MACK HORTON: I honestly never think about it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I clearly watch it too much, man. I'm doing all the thinking for you.

 

MACK HORTON: When I do try and think about it, I wish I remembered more from the whole experience. I think, you know, just in like an Olympic week, there's so much focus. You can't really take much in and even like touching, winning, it's just overwhelming. Like normal humans can't compute that, I don't think. And so, yeah, I wish I had clearer and crystal memories of the whole thing. The main things I remember, Dave, coming over to me and also the step up onto the podium, because I remember putting my hand on my chest and feeling the weight of the metal clank on my sternum, and then sticking my arm up. And then I also remember looking to my left and like my gym coach and biomechanist and going nuts. And they're just like the three crispest memories I have. Yeah, I wish there was more.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: My favourite moment is when you're being interviewed, Pooldeck, basically the first thing you turn around and say is, I didn't beat my personal best. He just won an Olympic gold medal. You're like, oh, shit, I didn't beat my PBR.

 

MACK HORTON: I don't remember that.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You're just like, you're so disappointed in your time. It's like, oh, don't want.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, that's how it is, though. That's the Olympics. It's just racing. It's like, it's not about PBs. But yeah, you always want more.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: There's always always always want more, which that was our when we started this show, we started back in Rio. So basically we do daily coverage during the Olympics. And that was our very first daily coverage. And I remember coming on that night and being like, stop the Olympics, Australia. We've won the Olympics because obviously with the girls winning the gold that day, we were on top of the medal tally after day one of Rio. And look, I don't know my history that much to know if Australia's ever topped the medal tally at one point, but there it was Rio. You helped achieve that. So like, could you have done something to cancel the Olympics for us on that day? I mean, you'd help us get to the top of the medal tally, so the Olympics over.

 

MACK HORTON: I don't mind disrupting a bit, so I could have tried. I don't think it would have gone down very well.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Not quite. Just with the 1500, though, ultimately, how do you reflect on that? Because, I mean, people would obviously no doubt look and go, you've had a successful meet, you're an Olympic champion, you've won the 400 metres. But as you're saying, your event was still the 1500 metres, not to medal in that. Like, do you reflect on that and actually leave disappointed because of your pet event you weren't able to achieve, maybe what you set out to achieve?

 

MACK HORTON: There's this excellent quote, you're only as good as your last race. And so I remember leaving the Olympics coming fifth. But I mean, in hindsight, it's really just experience. And I think this, for me, put into perspective, how great Phelps is. Like, the emotional roller coaster and the physical toll of just winning one Olympic gold medal takes on you. And everything that comes with it, it's exhausting. And so, I mean, not that I was exhausted when I got to the 1500, but there's, looking back, there's probably things that I've learned that I could manage a bit better going forward. But also, I remember swimming the Heat and it was one of the easiest 1500s of my life. And then it's just like, that deeper fatigue the next day. You know, one of those races where you dive in, you know, you're cooked and you just gotta hang on. So yeah, it's, and that was probably one of my last decent 1500s or shots at a decent 1500 as well. Sounds a bit sad, but what can you do?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Is it a case of someone like Phelps in the sport? Obviously, that was his last Olympics, but do you look back and think like, damn, I wish he swam the 1500 or the 400, so I could have gone like toe to toe in like my pet events? Or is it a case of, well, thank God, like he stopped winning the golds, Michael. Like, you know, I wanna have a chance.

 

MACK HORTON: No, I think you always wanna go toe to toe with the best. And I think, yeah, it would have been cool to get, you know, Phelps in his peaks, and then a 400, that would be unreal. But yeah, there'll be someone else.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, there will be, right? Plenty to go with that. One thing I always love to learn from any Australian gold medallist on this show, you come home, you're on a stamp. Do you remember the first time you see your stamp, and do you keep them? Like, do you just wanna constantly have a bunch of Mack Horton stamps ready to go and send a bunch of letters?

 

MACK HORTON: I have a pile somewhere. I don't know where they are. It's like one of those things you wanna use that you also wanna save, and just never end up using. I think my mum bought a heap, and obviously the grandparents and stuff, and then friends would start buying them and giving them to me. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's very cool. I bought Zach Stublety Cook, who won the 200th breast in Tokyo. I bought a sheet of his stamps, so I'll hold on to them and probably never use them as well.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Just send him a letter with just his entire cover, enough of the address in the little thing.

 

MACK HORTON: But it's a whole envelope. And then I need another sheet, because I want a perfect sheet.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. But is that weird though, if you receive a letter and your face is on it, like, oh, bloody Telstra, oh, wait, there I am.

 

MACK HORTON: I think I probably did, but again, I wish I had clearer memories of all these things. But I think just lack of sleep and lots of early mornings has actually destroyed my memory. So unfortunately, I don't.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which then sort of in between Rio, then through to Tokyo, how detrimental was that break, the pandemic year ultimately? I mean, we obviously know what happened sort of with Tokyo, missing out on the 400 to defend your title, but was that down to something that could have, like if we had have gone normally in 2020, would that have been different? Do you feel?

 

MACK HORTON: I was feeling pretty good in 2020, but I'm not about blaming things. I think, I mean, when you, for me, I think a good training block is good weeks, not just good days. It's much harder to piece together a complete week. And weeks are designed so that you, I guess, tick everything off that you need to work on across that week. And I mean, leading up to trials, I had to flee lockdowns three times, and I had to go to Queensland for two weeks to get into Adelaide, to get into trials. But before that, we'd had training camps, we had to leave early, et cetera, et cetera. And so I said too many weeks that we interrupted, you know, isolate for three days this week, try and catch up sessions the next week. And so eventually it does start to add up a little bit, unfortunately, but I mean, what can you do?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, which on the flip side of what you're talking about before, when you qualify for Rio, first event done, you know, you're there. How then is that on the opposite side of things when you've missed out, there's obviously that media attention around like, oh, you know, Mack Horton is not going in the 400 to try and then back that up to get that slot, which you ultimately do get for the four by two.

 

MACK HORTON: It's awful. The other hard thing was because of lockdown in Melbourne, my mum had booked a house for like my family, my girlfriend, we're all gonna stay there and whatever, but it just ended up being me and only me because someone could come across. And so, I mean, that was a pretty grim night after that 400 just sitting on the line in this big house. And I think, I mean, obviously a lot of people say they don't get scared or have fear or anything, but like for the first time in my life, I was like, geez, what do I do now? I didn't actually know what was gonna happen next. And I think I probably only slept like two hours or so that night as well. Just like, okay, do I get a job now or what happens? And then slowly I started to shift my mindset, but it took a long time. And it was like, okay, I can still swim fast, this wasn't fast enough in the 400. And I have the experience in the Olympics behind me, I'm gonna get on this relay team and just help get the guys the best result they can, try and put them in a position where they're comfortable and swimming fast. And that's gonna be my job, these Olympics. It's the shift from Rio, what do I need to do to be the best that I can be to Tokyo, which was how can I help everyone get through this week? And how can we get the best team going forward?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: As much as it obviously was disappointing not to be in the event in Tokyo, what was it like being able to be in the stands and cheering on, you know, Jack obviously going on to get a silver, very narrowly nearly sort of defended the 400 for Australia?

 

MACK HORTON: It was, I mean, it's hard to watch, obviously, because I would have loved to have been in there, but incredibly happy for Jack as well. We're very good friends. I think he is the hardest worker I've ever seen. He's been slogging for so many years. And so Stokely got the silver, but also he would have loved that gold. And we're actually in an apartment together, and it was like this, yes, yes, yes. But then also he obviously wanted more, which is just what comes with being an athlete. Yeah, it was great to be there and be able to support him. And I guess live that experience with him and everyone else in the team.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which at the end of the day, though, obviously, if you're not going to win gold, you want a teammate to win a gold medal. But then ultimately, if you're going to lose, you don't want to lose to like an American or a Brit and all that sort of stuff. But to lose to Tunisia, I mean, we were very excited on the show to celebrate Armand's gold. Like, I mean, I think we gave him our athlete of the day on that day. He was like, great, Tunisia, like, this is fantastic. I mean, is there a weird sense of joy seeing someone from a country like Tunisia, Armand winning a gold medal, and the celebrations that he obviously had after that gold?

 

MACK HORTON: It was pretty cool. He played the, I guess, the like pure underdog game. He literally came out of nowhere, which is the way to do it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, which it's fantastic sort of, you know, to see kind of that sort of stuff. Look, I'm not here to dwell on any negatives and all that kind of stuff, Mack, but like, can you take the experience from Tokyo, everything that kind of led up to it now, and then weirdly use it as a positive to spur you on towards Paris? Like, can you take the negatives and go, okay, well, I don't ever want to feel this crap again. So this is gonna bring me back into where I was back towards Rio and kind of push me towards the third Olympics?

 

MACK HORTON: Definitely. I've never been so motivated or hungry before. I think that was there after trials. I was like, we're going again. I think leading up to Tokyo is like, I'll do what I want to achieve here, and then maybe the focus of my life will shift or whatever. Oh, as soon as I can tick that box, it's like, all right, swimming's still it. We're still going. We haven't got all of it out, and we need to do it. So yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Keep on pushing forward.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which also then too, I mean, you'll be what, 28 come Paris.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So I'm thinking 32 LA, 36 Brisbane. You know, I mean, does that legitimately give you, like, pause the thought, like, could I push the body that far to end my career at home Olympics?

 

MACK HORTON: Definitely not. I've got too many other things I want to do in life. And I mean, I love swimming, but I also love swimming fast, and I just can't imagine just going to feel that great at 36. But I do, I want to be involved in every Olympics going forward somehow, somewhere, even if it's just going to watch. I mean, once you've caught that bug and experienced it, it's pretty hard to step away from it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Mick Zone, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Mack, I mean, you've been so many ends of these, stupid journalists asking you stupid questions, right? You can be the one on the other side of it now. Stop asking me, but I've answered that one. I got splashed, get over it. I want a gold medal, come on, move on.

 

MACK HORTON: I saw a bus driver, actually, maybe.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, how would that be? Like, you know, welcome, oh, Mack Horton, how are you doing? Didn't recognise you without your glasses, but hey. Wait, hang on a minute, shouldn't you be wearing those glasses? I might not be getting on this bus anymore. I kind of, I don't feel safe with it. You've, I mean, you're moving to the Gold Coast now, I believe, sort of, is that to help you out, sort of on that progression towards Paris, kind of like what's brought about that move?

 

MACK HORTON: I've been with Craig, who was my coach up until now for 13, 14 years. So I started with him when I was 11. And so I've just been, you know, not doing the same thing, but in the same program for, you know, as long as I've known, it's all I've known. And I mean, realistically, I may only have three years left. So it's like, I may as well try something new, something different, and see what happens. So I guess it's a part of refocusing for Paris, but it's also just like, I guess, answering that question of, you know, what if I try this as well? The cliché, leaving no stone unturned.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Keep pushing it that way. And then so in the meantime, you know, like Commonwealth Games, Birmingham, you know, World Champs, obviously, as well, big year in 2022. So kind of that's just where the focus is at, right now?

 

MACK HORTON: Come Games and Worlds next year. Worlds is quite early and trials are quite early. They haven't left much time for everyone to have a break after Tokyo, which seems a bit cruel. So, I mean, we'll see how we're tracking. And I think, you know, across the board, there's going to be big opportunities for people to step up and secure a position on the team because of that tight turnaround. There'll be people that won't be ready, but there'll also be, you know, after Olympics, it's natural for people to step aside as well. And then Comm Games World's next year, I think it's, wait, sorry, in two years. My years are very confused with COVID. And then we're there. So, I mean, realistically, it's only two and a half years once you get into it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: That's crazy. I mean, you know, here we are, time of recording this, you know, months away from another Olympics in the winters. So it's kind of, you know, that way. Have you thought about switching folk? Like, I mean, you know, we see it a lot. You say, you know, Yana Pittman did it. Obviously hurdles to Bob said, I mean, I don't know where you can relate the swimming to any sort of winter sports, but I mean, you know, there's a opportunity wanting to go to all these Olympics. You can switch focus to curling or something like, who knows?

 

MACK HORTON: Maybe not winter, but I've been getting into, in my like off season, I've been getting into ocean kayaking. So maybe like K1 or K2 or something.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. And that's a sport where you can go deep into your thirties. I mean, you know, Ken Wallace, I mean, how old was he? Like still going. So yeah. I don't know.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah. And it's transferable, shoulder strength, rotation, big stretcher. Yeah. And I've always loved sailing as well. So maybe sailing.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

 

MACK HORTON: But I think, I mean, you need to start sailing very early and have an unbelievable amount of natural talent to make it. Yeah. So probably-

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You never know. Stranger things have happened, right? Like you never know. Now, we close out with a series of sort of get to know questions I'll get to in just a second. But one thing I wanted to touch on, you're talking about things to do post-swimming. Your website is filled with amazing photos, which people can buy.

 

MACK HORTON: I like this. Thank you for the plug.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes. Well, tell us about this sort of, has this always just been a hobby? Is this something you've always wanted to do? I mean, tell us about your photography.

 

MACK HORTON: I've just always loved taking photos. I mean, when I was like maybe 13, 14, I'd just ride my bike a lot with my mates and we'd just go nuts around the neighbourhood and I'd always have a camera that's taking photos, which sounds lame now that I'm saying it out loud, but that's the way I had the passion.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: We won't judge, it's fine.

 

MACK HORTON: Just like capturing, I mean, memories with friends, and I guess part of being able to travel on Zoom and go to these events is I enjoy capturing the sort of behind the scenes stuff that people don't ordinarily get to see. All the prints I think I've got on there are just like cliche travel shots because that's what people like to put on their wall. But I'm going to keep plugging it. There's a good photo of all the medals on there.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I was going to say, that's my favourite. I'm looking at that right now sort of like black and white, and sort of these wheat bicks there as well, and like water bottles, and just like it's looking great.

 

MACK HORTON: And that's honestly what our table in our apartment looked like a week, just like breakfast cereal and tuna bowls and medals.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Like random Olympic medals mixed with that sea lubics.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, it's just like the perfect summary of the Olympics. Yeah, it's just always been a fun little thing. And I mean, if I can sell a few prints, it's a nice extra revenue stream.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, bargain, five bucks. I might have to pick up a few here, Mack.

 

MACK HORTON: That's very small for five dollars.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Will you sign it? Will you sign it for me if I buy one?

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, but it ships to you, so you have to bring it to me, and then I'll sign it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, okay, so just like that sort of, you know, that extra element. All right, okay. Make me do all the work. I see how it is. Actually on that too, I forgot to ask my standard question in terms of our medallists guess. What do you do with the medal? Like, is it on display? Is it kind of somewhere safe? Like, where is the Rio gold?

 

MACK HORTON: It's in Melbourne somewhere.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: In Burke Street. There it is. It's on the ground. There it is.

 

MACK HORTON: No, no, it's, Mum and Dad have it, and it's in a hiding spot.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Nice. Is it something that like legitimately, when you do retire, reflect, you know, house, kids, wife, all that sort of stuff, that you might put it up on display, something like that?

 

MACK HORTON: Oh, I don't think so.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: No. A lot of people just put it in the sock drawer, Matt. Like, oh, there it is. You know, get my, get my pair.

 

MACK HORTON: No, I'm all for that. It's not for me, really. I think it's, you can get quite philosophical about it, but I think the gold medal just represents, like, the journey and the process and everyone that was involved. And it's not actually for me. It's for the people to enjoy and to share. And I mean, you should, you should see it. It's like banged and scratched and the ribbons like shredding. Because I honestly go to school groups and just like throw it at the kids. Yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I saw a post on Twitter. I can't remember which Olympian it was. They'd won a medal in Tokyo and they were like, oh, I've dropped it, you know, shit. And then like somebody else has commented like, well, if there's no scuff marks or, you know, the ribbons not worn, like, you're not doing it right. Like that's kind of the point of an Olympic medal to show it off.

 

MACK HORTON: Exactly. It's not for you. It's for everyone to enjoy, try on, touch, scratch with their rings and their watches.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep. Pass it around. Yeah.

 

MACK HORTON: You can't do that in COVID, unfortunately.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: All these Tokyo Olympics have these pristine medals.

 

MACK HORTON: What are you doing with these?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I can't imagine Emma McKeehan's kind of like, all these photos she's doing around her neck, kind of banging around, clanging around. It's kind of like, they've got a few chips on it.

 

MACK HORTON: She can take one out for show and tell and then leave everyone else in pristine condition.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: She can just share them. I think she can just give them around, right? You can have one, you can have one. You have three, you have seven. I've got plenty to keep me busy. All right, sure, let's just do it that way. As I said, we close out with a series of fun, get to know your questions. Now these are based on a Team Canada questionnaire they gave their athletes, the head of Rio and Pyeongchang. I always like to choose an athlete from the same sport and thankfully Canada asked some questions to some swimmers. Now, Santo Condorelli, is he a swimmer that you came up against at all in any of your races, Canadian?

 

MACK HORTON: Maybe, I don't know.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I'm not too familiar sadly with Santo, so.

 

MACK HORTON: It sounds like a sprinter's name, doesn't it?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, one of those sprinters. Ugh, like come on, Jesus. Work harder at your swimming, Santo. Like, you know anyone can swim a hundred metres, try a 15, all right? You gotta meditate.

 

MACK HORTON: These are not my words.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Kyle Ta, what are you doing, Kyle? Like, stop being, you know, try a 15 hundred. Do you actually, is there a thing where you can say to Kyle, like, oh, good on you, you win a gold. Like, let's middle ground it, like halfway between the 150, 750 metres. Who's better?

 

MACK HORTON: Definitely not, he's a big boy.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I wanna see this. It's like the Michael Johnson, Donovan Bailey thing they did years ago. Who's the fastest man? You know, let's meet in the middle, you know?

 

MACK HORTON: Well, 200's probably as close as it gets.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, okay.

 

MACK HORTON: There's a balance there. So does happen.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Now, so these are just random questions. As always, we give you the option. There is a drawing element. If you're that bored currently in quarantine, Mack, you can draw a picture of yourself if you really want to, send it in to us, and we'll put it on social media. I mean, it's entirely up to you.

 

MACK HORTON: Potentially, okay.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, potentially. You might get that bored. We'll start off with the best candy in the world is.

 

MACK HORTON: Poor. I'm actually, I'm a shocker for sweets because I burn so much energy. And then if I go to the supermarket hungry, I'll just buy a bag of something and I can smash it easily and not feel ill. My go-to is probably like peanut M&Ms.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Ooh, yes.

 

MACK HORTON: Because I try and convince myself that the peanuts are kind of healthy.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, it's like eating a cherry ripe, right? You're eating fruit.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, exactly.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So, you know, kind of be, I like that. That kind of, that works that way. Your favourite sandwich is?

 

MACK HORTON: Ooh, have you been to Melbourne a bit?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I have, yes.

 

MACK HORTON: Are you familiar with Hector's Deli?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I am not familiar with Hector's Deli.

 

MACK HORTON: It's a place in Richmond. All they do is toasted sandwiches and they do like a Reuben toasted sandwich.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Ooh, okay.

 

MACK HORTON: It's amazing. Yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, I will say like Melbourne, my favourite place in Australia, and I need to go there next time. Now that the borders are opening up.

 

MACK HORTON: Yes.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Go there.

 

MACK HORTON: Hector's Deli is the place to go.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I'll mark it down. Your favourite sports movie is?

 

MACK HORTON: Actually don't know. Is there a pass? Sports movie. Okay, I'll say Rush.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Rush. Yes, yes. 100%. Are you an F1 fan?

 

MACK HORTON: I am an F1 fan.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, don't get me started on this. This is a whole other conversation. I mean, standard Ricardo fan, or are you kind of into any other drivers or teams?

 

MACK HORTON: Ricardo is a favourite, and probably Landels. So I guess McLaren. I'm not like I go for that team religiously or I go for that driver religiously. It's just like I enjoy the different personalities and just observing.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So how many growing pretty? Did you constant at Albert Park every year?

 

MACK HORTON: Well, I live up the road, so I hear it every year, and I've been to watch a couple of times. It clashes with training a lot, unfortunately.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, that pulls right next door though, isn't it?

 

MACK HORTON: It is. And so we swim and we'll see the Formula One cars go past. Like while I'm swimming, I can see it all.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which I love that actually, when you're walking, because that's like turn three. And I always remember you see the people doing the laps and you got the people sneaking up into that outdoor stand, just sitting there watching the cars.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You're there. Well, there you go. I've seen you twice in person, Mack. That's the whole time. There's Mack Horton up there watching the cars.

 

MACK HORTON: But it also always clashes with like a New South Wales state championship or something. We're always somewhere and I get so filthy because I just want to be there watching it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I just want to go there. Which I mean, it's in April next year. So, I mean, I don't know if that helps or hinders.

 

MACK HORTON: I think trials are around April, so it's probably a no go.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: God damn it. We had Ash Werner, Bob Sledder on, and she's a big Riccardo fan. And we were talking about how she's got a very high energy like Daniel Riccardo. So she was like, I'd love to get like a swap going on with get Danny Rick in a Bob Sled and, you know, get me in a McLaren F1 car. As a gold medallist, can you pull some strings and be like, hey, you're like Daniel, like, we'll get you in the pool while you're here in Albert Park and shove me in a McLaren.

 

MACK HORTON: I don't think gold medals have that much pull in the Formula One world. I, whenever you, when you watch a Formula One race, it always blows my mind. The celebrities that like go up to the drivers and they're like, wow, you are amazing. Like they're just another level. It's insane.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's also funny when you see the awkward ones. I don't know if you remember that famous one from the Australian Grand Prix when Kimi Raikkonen and Sebastian Vettel met Nicole Kidman. And basically Nicole Kidman was like, hello. And Kimi was just like, yep. And he just turned away like he didn't give a shit.

 

MACK HORTON: Well, that made so many people. And Kimi is notorious for not caring.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So, oh yeah, he wouldn't give two shits to Nicole Kidman. Who? If you ever want to read a great F1 autobiography, Kimi Raikkonen's autobiography is brilliant.

 

MACK HORTON: Okay, I'll read it here because I'm looking for things to do.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Do it. And one of the best, like they've got a whole section on Kimi Raikkonen and quotes. And one of my favourite is a journalist asked him, they're like, oh, Louis Hamilton has said that Formula One is better than sex. What would you say to that? And Kimi is like, maybe he's never had the sex. So I was like, yep, all right, good on you, Kimi.

 

MACK HORTON: I think he, did he release a poetry book with Psyche or something?

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, you're right. I remember that, yes. Oh, Kimi. And his Instagram is weirdly entertaining. He literally posts a picture of him and his son, and it would just be like, fun. And you're just like, oh, it's so Kimi. It's just, Kimi's brilliant, loving.

 

MACK HORTON: It's iconic, yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: If you could have lunch, I mean, this could be your answer. I don't know, if you could have lunch with any one person, who would it be?

 

MACK HORTON: No, Roger Federer. Jesus, I'm over that.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: We know you're talking, you just say Roger. It's like, you know, one word, Madonna.

 

MACK HORTON: And everyone knows, yeah.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly, exactly. Kind of works that way. Do you bump into him at the Olympic Village? Like you kind of try and star spot him at Rio?

 

MACK HORTON: I didn't see him. In Tokyo, I sat across from Novak. But I just feel sorry for these guys at the Olympics, because again, they're just up another level of fame, and people just come up to them, ask them. They can't go anywhere. They can't sit down and eat. They're just constantly getting harassed. It'd be so annoying.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You see why I let the dream team go and stay on a boat in the harbour, right? Because they're just not wanting to get ruined. Kevin Durant's not bumping shoulders with Serbinian golfers.

 

MACK HORTON: They honestly can't walk anywhere. Yeah, it'd be exhausting.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Just works that way, too. Do you frequently Australian open?

 

MACK HORTON: Yep, I reckon Ella, my partner and I have been for maybe the last three or four years. The beauty of winning the Olympic gold medal is that sometimes there's some perks, and the Australian open is one of those perks.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Which I can imagine when Channel 7 had the rights to the tent, that maybe also helped a little bit, right? They've got the Olympics and the Australian Open. Because I've seen that right now with Ariane, I think with the Melbourne Cup and all that, they're kind of getting her on board and things like that. So that, a few perks.

 

MACK HORTON: It's helpful when there's a few crossovers.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. If you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?

 

MACK HORTON: Cool, because I'm in hotel quarantine in Brisbane right now, I'm gonna say Melbourne.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Perfect answer. When was the last time you actually were in Melbourne?

 

MACK HORTON: Nine days ago when I left.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: All right, okay. So it's not quite like, you haven't been away for like months?

 

MACK HORTON: No, no, no, but I've been in this room nine days straight.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: It feels like you've been away for like nine months, kind of, you know, stuck there in that place. No, I know the answer to this one, as a kid, your favourite sports team, the Dean, you mentioned you don't really sort of follow other sports, are there now, do you sort of gotten on to any other sports outside of F1 and AFL that you kind of follow?

 

MACK HORTON: Follow sailing a bit, and I quite like cycling, actually. I enjoy cycling myself, but I love watching it, and particularly the tour, which is so cliche because everyone watches the tour. But there's this Australian guy called Lachlan Morton. I'm not sure if you've heard of him, but the gist I'm getting is that he doesn't like the professional racing, but he loves pushing himself to the limit. And so he rode the entire tour, including transfers, unassisted, and beat the peloton to Paris.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, far out. That's awesome.

 

MACK HORTON: So it ended up being like 5,500 km, and I can't remember, like 45,000 metres of climbing or something.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Such an insane event.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah. And after day three, his knee blew up because of the angle of his shoes. So he did it in Birkenstocks. And he was like buying his own food and camping on the side of the road. Stuff like that, like extreme, like just people pushing themselves through it.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: With the sailing, would you do the Sydney to Hobart?

 

MACK HORTON: That is my dream. I would love to. Wow.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Have you been to Hobart before, Mack?

 

MACK HORTON: I have a couple of times. Great. I am a big Tasmania fan, actually. I did the Overland Track.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep.

 

MACK HORTON: Which was one of the best things I have ever done. And I also, Aloe and I did a road trip around Tasmania. We did the last day, the three capes down south, southeast. And that's amazing. It's like the edge of the world when you walk out there. I don't know if you have done it, but it's unbelievable.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: No. I have actually seriously never done the Overland. I am ashamed to admit as a border brick Tasmania.

 

MACK HORTON: You have got to get out there.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Definitely. Did you do Mona? Standard Hobart answer?

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, I have done Mona. Yeah, of course.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you like the poo machine? The poo machine is the best part of Mona, just watching this machine that does the shit. It's the best. It's the one thing I think that has stayed there since it opened, and it's literally one of two in the world, I think. And you get talking to the staff, like, oh, what did you feed it today? Oh, we fed it some salad and some yoghurt.

 

MACK HORTON: Oh, I do remember this, yes.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: So people don't know what we're talking about. It's literally like an artistic recreation of the human digestive system that takes up a whole room. They feed it at, like, 9 a.m. It does a shit at, like, 3 p.m. It's brilliant.

 

MACK HORTON: And they feed it, like, real food.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. And you ask, every day, they feed it something different, because, oh, like, the poo's a bit browner today, so we gave it some more fibre or something like that. Like, it's just... And also, when you went there, and I'll phrase this politically correctly in terms of the word, did they have the wall of vaginas there?

 

MACK HORTON: That is the one thing I remember most clearly. I don't want to bring it up.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I was going to say, this is a question you never thought you'd get asked in an interview, but there it is. I'll ask you about the wall of vaginas.

 

MACK HORTON: That was a nice part.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: The best thing, the most entertaining thing for anybody who ever goes to Mona is because there's no signs, right? You get the iPod and you go around and you don't know what anything is. So just stand back and watch people who don't know what they're looking at, because they're very unassuming, right? You don't know what they are until your face is right in front of one. So then like you've got like, you know, teenage boys who are like, ha ha ha, like, look at that. Then you got like little old greys go, oh, that's disgusting. They just kind of like walk off. It's the best thing.

 

MACK HORTON: Maybe that is the arch.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, exactly. Exactly. David Walsh just gets off on just, you know, people's reactions to things. It's brilliant. Your favourite workout is?

 

MACK HORTON: Swimming. Or paddling at the moment, like ocean paddling, kayaking. Anything where I get that like arm fatigue. Surfing is included probably. Paddling type sports.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, brilliant. And all water. I'm seeing lots of water things.

 

MACK HORTON: Yeah, don't mind water.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I'd hope so that that kind of is a thing that you enjoy. Like I'd be all over something. I hate getting wet. It's just ridiculous. It's dumb. If you could choose any Olympic host city, where would it be?

 

MACK HORTON: Oh, to compete at or to, you don't know.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I don't. The Canadians aren't that specific. They're just, you know, it has to be Sydney. Yeah. Not in your home city, Melbourne. You wouldn't want to see Melbourne get them again.

 

MACK HORTON: Um, wait, I don't know if we're talking about the next, like, new or go back to how it was.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I think this is just a case of right now.

 

MACK HORTON: I'd like to see Sydney how it was. All right. Time travel back to 2000.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Time travel, be there. I get to watch it.

 

MACK HORTON: And watch the men's four by one.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, God. Yes.

 

MACK HORTON: Yes.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Being there in the stands. What are they having? Like 20,000 people in those stands sort of back there in Sydney?

 

MACK HORTON: I think they actually thought it was going to fall down because when they did the maths for it, they didn't account for everyone jumping up and down at the same time. Wow.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Does that mean that Brisbane are going to be like, well, we can't let those New South Welshmen beat us, so let's go for 25,000, you know, like we've got to increase the capacity. Yeah. Jeez, I think that would be great. When you were little, you gave an answer to this early, which is something that I love when people give an answer to this question. But when you were little, what was something you always thought?

 

MACK HORTON: I can't remember what I said earlier.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, you said that you always ate, like you're always hungry and I love it when people are like, when I was little, I was always hungry. That's a good answer.

 

MACK HORTON: Probably that I was always tired. I remember just falling asleep a lot during school, like under desks, on desks, there'd be teachers who would just know and I'd just pass out and they'd let me go and then come and quickly explain what I've missed out on when I wake up again.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: You're training for the Olympics, Mack. It's fine. One plus one equals two. Now go back to sleep. Standard sort of things to catch up on there. If you could have any superpower, what would it be?

 

MACK HORTON: To fly. I think because that's what I loved about swimming. It's the closest you can get to flying.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Good answer. Which the one thing I always love about watching swimming is like the great camera angles and you've got those ones in the water where like it literally does look like you're flying kind of like the way you're kind of paddling.

 

MACK HORTON: It feels like it too when you get going fast.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. Fantastic. Mack, I mentioned your website in terms of where people can buy the prints, but plug that, plug social media. Where can people sort of stay up to date with what you're going to be up to in the lead up to Paris?

 

MACK HORTON: Well, I've never had to plug this before. My Instagram is at Mack Horton.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Very easy.

 

MACK HORTON: My website is mackhorton.com.au. Also very easy.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Pretty simple.

 

MACK HORTON: And yeah, you'll catch me on there somewhere.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you want to plug anything else? You know, while you're here, like buy your Melbourne Demons Premiership Merchandise, help support the club.

 

MACK HORTON: Buy some scarves and hats.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Hummus, sponsor me.

 

MACK HORTON: I'm not giving them a plug in the plug section if it's not sponsored.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: I really think this needs to be a thing. Gone are the glory days of Olympic swimmers writing their names on products. Ariane is selling Harvey Norman products. Good on you, Ariane. I'll go buy myself a kitchen blender or something. Exactly. But I want something unique. I want you selling hummus. I want you like, Hi, welcome to Cole's Update of the Week. I'm Olympic Champion Mack Horton, and I love my hummus.

 

MACK HORTON: Like the Awesome Fawesome with the little fruit cups.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly. I only know that brand of fruit because of the Awesome Fawesome.

 

MACK HORTON: Right.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: And that whole Peaches Mango Peaches thing that they used to do. Golden Valley Gold. Like, come on. Geez. Like, where are the hummus sponsorship being flown at Mack Horton? I just, this needs to be seen.

 

MACK HORTON: I appreciate the push.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, we're very influential on Off The Podium, Mack. Like, come on. You know, we're able to do that. It has been a pleasure to be able to chat with you, Mack, to sort of learn more about your career and share some of the stories along the way. But we definitely appreciate it. And we'll be cheering you on all the way through to Paris. And I'm just going to say it. Push your way through to Brisbane, mate. You can do it. Like, even if it's in kayak or sailing, you know, be there in some capacity.

 

MACK HORTON: We will see. We will see. Thank you for having me. And thank you for taking up an hour and a half of my 336 hours of quarantine.

 

BEN WATERWORTH: Such a fun chat there with Mack learning many aspects. And at the time of recording this, Mack, as you no doubt heard there, was in hotel quarantine on the Gold Coast, in Brisbane, I should say, in Queensland. So a lot of fun to kind of catch him there and learn a lot about that. And we obviously are gonna be keeping an eye on how things go this year for both Birmingham and the World Championships, and of course ultimately towards Paris in just a couple of years' time. So definitely appreciate Mack's time on the show, and we look forward to also seeing him at the Sydney to Hobart or maybe doing the Tour de France one day. We'll add that to the list of things he can potentially achieve. More great stuff coming away here on Off The Podium. Obviously not quite the extent of episodes we had going for you in the lead up and around Beijing, but still got lots of great things planned as well. So in order to not miss out on one of these episodes, remember to subscribe on all good podcast platforms, social media, search for Off The Podium. You'll never miss a post that we do. And we love hearing from you for anything to say. Shoot us a message. We check them all and we would love to see what you think of the show. Big thanks to Mack. Big thanks to everybody for listening to the show. My name is Ben. Shout out to Jason Momoa and The Rock. Let's throw him in for good measure too. And remember, go left.

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