Kim Brennan Interview

Time to bring you another Off The Podium interview as we speak with 2016 Olympic Gold Medallist in the women's single sculls, Kim Brennan. In this wide ranging interview, Kim discusses her career from an upcoming track and field star who used to give Jana Pitman a run for her money, right through to the day she realised she could no longer run and had to switch sports to achieve her goal of becoming an Olympian. Kim also details the emotions she felt through her three different Olympics, as well as detailing her close connections to Hobart and Tasmania and what the future holds for her moving towards 2020.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.

BEN WATERWORTH: Welcome back to Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast, as we come to you right now to talk about the Olympics when the Olympics aren't actually on. No, we are here to continue on a series of interviews that we are bringing you from both Australian and Canadian athletes. Perhaps other countries, we don't know. We might delve into the bowels of the Ethiopian Olympians to bring you some surprise interviews across the way. But today, you are tuning in to hear an Olympic gold medallist from Rio 2016, Kim Brennan, who of course won gold in the single skulls at Rio 2016, one of our eight gold medallists from the Games, Australia's eight gold medallists. I shouldn't just say our, we have a Canadian angle to this program as well. So one of Australia's gold medallists. Now, Kim has had a pretty amazing career, started off as a runner in athletics and was actually a national junior champion in the 400 metre hurdles, won a silver medal in the 400 metre hurdles at the World Youth Championships in 2001, and was a second ranked hurdler behind the one, the only Jana Pitman leading up into the early 2000s. But an injury in 2005 cost her her shot at athletics, glory at the Olympics. So she switched focus to rowing, a sport that she would go on to amazing success in. Won a couple of medals in London in 2012, competed in Beijing, but didn't medal. Won a silver and a bronze in London after becoming one of the very few rowers to compete in multiple events at those games. And 2016 went on to win gold in the single skulls. Now we were actually recording when that happened. We were recording our daily recap at the exact moment that Kim crossed the line to win the gold. This was the only opportunity, I believe, throughout the entire games that we had to quote, commentate on an Australian gold medal. So I just want to play this clip for you really quickly. If you missed that episode last year, this is us recording at the time that Kim won that gold medal.

BEN WATERWORTH: This is where she does the Usain Bolt, surely, and kind of...

JARROD LOOBEEK: Over.

BEN WATERWORTH: She's gone.

JARROD LOOBEEK: Gold.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, that lane one row is getting closer. Or is that just the angle of the camera? I don't like these angles.

COLIN HILDING: It was a lot closer than I thought it would be.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, shit. Hang on. She won already?

COLIN HILDING: But it was a lot closer. US was a lot closer than I thought they were.

BEN WATERWORTH: She's only winning right now on mine. Go Australia! Go! You're good there. Gold! Gold! Gold! Yes! Six gold! Suck it, French! You're in the middle, Telly!

COLIN HILDING: I'm just happy that she didn't try to give the death stare to the Americans and Chinese right before she crossed the finish line and capsized.

BEN WATERWORTH: Kim Brennan has just shot Australia back ahead of the French, the Germans and the Koreans, and we're just now behind the Japanese. But they're fine. I like the Japanese. They're awesome. So, yay, we're in fifth again.

BEN WATERWORTH: Now, clearly, you can see why we aren't Olympic commentators, but there we go. That was her gold medal winning performance from our perspective, at least. And Kim, I should also mention, has a bit of a connection to Hobart and Tasmania as she is married to Scott Brennan, Tasmanian rower, won gold in Beijing in the men's double skulls with David Crochet and also got married here in Tasmania as well. So as you'll hear in this interview, a bit of a connection to us down here in Hobart and Tasmania. But enough of that. You don't want to hear me. You want to hear from Kim. So without further ado, let's get to it and let's speak to Olympic gold medallist Kim Brennan. Kim, welcome to the show.

KIM BRENNAN: Thanks very much for having me.

BEN WATERWORTH: I have to say, is it something that you're getting used to at the moment being introduced as an Olympic gold medallist? Is that still something that you just can't get sick of hearing when people say that?

KIM BRENNAN: Oh, it still feels a little bit removed. It's like, oh gee, they must be talking about someone else. But it is quite nice, I will say.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I mean, it's been six months now, obviously, since Rio and since the medal. I mean, I can imagine that things really haven't, I guess, calmed down. You've come back home, you've won countless awards, you've been named a member of the Order of Australia, you're doing speaking gigs. I mean, have you had a chance to even just rest and even just soak in the fact that you won an Olympic gold medal?

KIM BRENNAN: I think reality hit pretty hard when I started full-time work and I realised the difference between a normal nine to five job and elite sport. And I think it was then that I began to appreciate a lot more the life that I'd been fortunate to lead and what I had achieved. And I think having that other challenge also means that you move on a lot and you don't think about it too much, but when it pops up, it's just like, oh, that's nice.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's nice. It's something that I guess, you can always tell the grandkids about it one day. Oh, I won a gold medal at the Olympics, just something small, I guess.

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, it's very satisfying.

BEN WATERWORTH: Now, was it always a goal of yours growing up to become an athlete? I mean, obviously you grew up in a very sporting household, your dad playing in the VFL. I mean, was this kind of something that spurred you into wanting to become an athlete? Were there other methods that involved you going forward into a sporting career?

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, look, I was really lucky that we had a very active childhood. My brother played a lot of sports and he always included me, so whatever he did, I wanted to do. So that gave me a good basis. I think it was something that really just tweaked when I was watching the Barcelona Olympics opening ceremony. Now, I would have been about seven, and there was just something magical about it, but from that moment, I just had this real drive that I wanted to do that. You know, obviously at that age, I had no idea what that actually meant or what a future in sport would look like, but it was something that just absolutely fascinated me. And I think, you know, sometimes having that really deep passion helps you through the injuries. It helps you through the sessions that you're really struggling. It just helps find that little extra bit of resilience to keep going when things are tough. And so I think it was probably that moment of starting to have that dream that set me on the course that I ended up on.

BEN WATERWORTH: So from that point on, with that desire and that dream that you're mentioning, what's the decision process that involved into choosing a sport? I guess you obviously went into athletics first of all to try and I guess pursue that dream. Was that the sport you thought you would be best adapted to? Did you kind of dabble in some other Olympic sports at the time?

KIM BRENNAN: At school, I played a lot of different sports, but I was best at track and field. So, 400 hurdles was kind of my niche and I had the most success in that. And I think often, when we're young, we choose sports depending on maybe what our friends do and what's popular at the school that we go to and also what we're good at. And I think because I was best at that, that was my passion and I did, I did. I thought that that would be the sport that would take me to the Olympics. Looking back now, I think it's very lucky that I did find a different sport. I think my height and the way I'm built and my physiology is probably better suited to a number of other sports. But often we don't, you know, we don't look at different opportunities until we're forced to. And I guess that's what happened to me when I got injured. I was told that I wouldn't be able to run at the top level again. And I was doing some rehab on a rolling ergo. And it was then that, you know, I started thinking about, well, can I do something else?

BEN WATERWORTH: I could also imagine the fact then that you don't have to run and every couple of metres jump over a piece of wood also would be a thing that perhaps you don't miss. I mean, I've interviewed hurdlers in the past before and I'm always fascinated to think that what, you know, running is hard enough as it is with training, let alone adding that extra hurdle in it. I mean, that, I guess in itself would have been a slight relief that you didn't have to work that part of your training anymore.

KIM BRENNAN: I mean, they're very different sports. I think, you know, the 400 hurdles is, it's a sprint. The way you train is, you know, a huge amount of impact on your body, meaning that you're always walking an incredibly fine line between doing enough training and getting injured. A lot more explosive, a lot more lactic acid. Rowing is, you know, it's a very aerobic sport, but it's also a power-based sport. I had to put on a lot of weight to become a good rower, put on a lot of muscle and really improve my endurance capacity. So I wouldn't have said that, you know, if you were doing a talent ID test on me at the end of my athletics career, that I would have ticked many of the rowing boxes. But I think with most sports and, you know, most things that we do in life, you have transferable skills. I'd learnt as a track and field athlete how to get the most out of myself in a training session, how to take feedback, how to make change and how to really, you know, set a goal and work towards it. And all those things meant that when I started rowing, didn't matter that I wasn't good to start with. All these things I could learn as long as I kept trying to get better with every session.

BEN WATERWORTH: And I guess, I mean, you did have obviously success in your athletics career before you did switch sports. I mean, silver at the 2001 World Championships, junior champion, you raced against Jana Pitman. Of course, basically at her peak. Do you feel, had you not got injured, you know, that you would have made, how do you think you would have gone, I guess, moving forward with athletics? Do you think you would have had the success perhaps that you have had in rowing in athletics?

KIM BRENNAN: You know, I always wonder. I think I would have had to step up a distance. I think I would have had to run 800s rather than 400 hurdles, just because probably didn't have quite enough fast twitch to match it on the big stage. But I think one of the things that I've really seen, you know, having spent 11 years competing on the elite stage in rowing now, is just how good the people who are the best in the world are. And, you know, rowing just suits me so well. And I wonder whether I would have had the same experiences in track and field. I think I really enjoyed and thrived in the team atmosphere of rowing, which is ironic because I ended up winning a gold medal and a single skull, but very much the thing that I loved most about the sport was how strong that teamwork is and how well people support each other and how much more you can achieve when you're sharing a journey. And I think a lot of the things that I learned that made me into a great athlete, I learned because of rowing and because of the people in rowing. So it's pretty hard to say. I think I definitely chose the right sport.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, it's a fascinating thing that happened to you, really. I mean, you get injured, I'm sure at that point when you're told that you're really not gonna be able to compete at an elite level like you said before, you know, the dream of going to the Olympics, things along those lines, you know, the thought process to eventually get led into another sport with the success that you've had. It's not often that an athlete can say, I'm glad I got injured to basically say, I can't do this anymore because it led you obviously into your career that what you've got now.

KIM BRENNAN: I actually think it was a great gift because often when people think, oh gee, I might be better at another sport, they can still do their original sport. And that makes it really hard because the reality is that when you try something new, you're gonna suck at it. When you first start, if you never rode before and you jump in a boat, those things are really tippy. It's really hard to do. And so something will take time. And because I didn't have another option, so I couldn't go back to running, and I knew that, it meant that you could really immerse yourself in something new. I think often we see people try and talent transfer and they'll try for a little bit and then they'll go back to their original sport because it seems like the change is overwhelming and it will never happen. So in so many ways, I was really lucky that I had that finality. And it is a great thing to look back on because I was absolutely distraught at the time. It was, in my head, that injury was the worst thing that could have ever happened to me. It was like my whole world came crumbling down. And I know that sounds ridiculous talking about it now, but as I experienced it then as a 19-year-old, it was all my worst nightmares coming to fruition. And I think a few things that I learnt from that, but that often adversity can feel awful at the time, but so often we learn so much from it and we get new opportunities because of that adversity. So as long as we can sit with it and be okay with it, it can actually be a really good thing.

BEN WATERWORTH: And ultimately, of course, it would turn out to be a good thing, of course, looking back now. I mean, you're mentioning sort of the training and everything that you went through. I mean, you kind of had success fairly quickly, I guess you could say. I mean, within a year or so of joining the sport, you won a bronze medal at the World Championships as part of the Women's Eight, and then obviously ultimately went on to Beijing. In that period, though, as you were mentioning about those thoughts when you're thinking to yourself, well, is this for me? I mean, did you have those moments where it was just really pushing through it and trying to keep with it so that you could ultimately get to that point where you are competing at the elite level?

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, I think initially it was fantastic because I was improving so fast. I mean, if you start from the basis of not knowing how to row, every time you go out and do a session, you get better, and that is hugely rewarding. So my first year in the sport was a real whirlwind. I got selected on this training team within six months of starting rowing, and it was just a huge step up in the amount of training and the volume and racing in a world championship final. I think the real challenge came after that, that learning curve had been so steep. And then all of a sudden, it starts to level out. And pretty much for four or five years after that, I didn't see much improvement at all. I had got a certain way in the sport by being really diligent and working really hard and really applying myself and racing hard, and in a lot of ways, kind of just hurting myself, like absolutely at upper limits of capacity all the time. And it probably took me a little while to really embrace the fact that rolling is an art, and it's not all about harder, faster, more. It's also about being at one with the boat and being a real master of your craft. And so I think the challenge was really in those interim years of, we went away to the Beijing Olympics and came last. That's incredibly challenging. You know, at a time when you think that you've done absolutely everything possible to succeed, and you don't get the results that you would like, you sort of wonder, well, is this my capacity? Is this all I'm capable of? So I think enduring through that part of my career was probably the hardest.

BEN WATERWORTH: And I guess it's a unique sport too, in that you've got so many options. Like as I mentioned, you were as part of the Women's Eight, and then ultimately you go on to win a gold in the single skull. I mean, you've got options in pairs, and fours, and quads, and all these sort of things. Is it also that element where through that period you were talking about, you're trying to find what suits you best? You're trying to find that category of rowing that is where you can find that success you're ultimately striving to achieve?

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, I think you're right. I think, you know, a lot of the time those decisions are made for you. The rowing program will prioritize certain boat classes and really pursue them. When I came into the program, that was the eights. But then as time went on, they actually decided that they were going to prioritize the sculling program, which was another huge challenge for me because I'd essentially learnt to row sweep, which is with one or, and then all of a sudden in 2010, they said, no, we're not sending sweepers away. You're going to need to scull. And that was another huge challenge because I was the top ranked sweeper in the country, but I was struggling to make finals in sculling and having to really swallow your pride and be bad at something is quite hard. But I was really lucky to have some great teammates over the years to work with. I think I had a particularly fantastic experience in the double scull in 2012 with Brooke Prattley. And one of the reasons for ending up in the single after London 2012 was that Brooke was retiring and I just couldn't imagine being able to replace her. You know, it was just such a perfect combination that I think I would struggle to, you know, build that same relationship with someone new. So a lot of it's about, you know, the people around you and sort of where you are in your career as well. There's a huge energy and excitement in an ace. It's great fun. It's, you know, training is, you know, full of people, you know, supporting each other. The racing is, you know, incredibly fun when you have a great race. But then the, you know, the self-responsibility and the freedom of a single skull is something that probably suited me a bit better later in my career.

BEN WATERWORTH: You mentioned Beijing, obviously, the disappointment where you finished last in your race. But I mean, putting that aside, the fact that you ultimately made an Olympics going back to watching Barcelona when you were seven years old, I mean, could you at least soak that in when you first went to your very first Olympics to say, hey, here we go, I've achieved it, I'm an Olympian?

KIM BRENNAN: You know, that's the funny thing because come 2008, I fully expected to make the Olympic team because, you know, I've done the training, I was, you know, we were the top pair in the country. It was one of those things that at the time I didn't stop to appreciate it. It was just because of my performances, it was what happened next. And it's only looking back that I really came to appreciate what that actually meant. You know, I really wish I had taken time to smell the roses then. I just remember being, you know, I probably took it for granted. And then when we didn't have a good performance, I was, you know, I was absolutely distraught. I think, looking back, though, there were so many positives that came out of those games. And one of them is the incredibly special thing of being an Australian Olympian, but also getting to see people who did perform well. The men's double skull of Scott Brennan, my now husband and his partner David Crochet, was hugely inspirational because they'd had a disappointing performance four years earlier. And I got to watch their journey of how they went from a disappointing performance to a gold medal and see what it actually takes to get there. And that gives you so much hope that you can turn things around.

BEN WATERWORTH: And, I mean, London, you did turn it around slightly when you came home with two medals. But, I mean, I guess then with that in the back of the mind, was it satisfaction that you've walked away with medals? Or again, was there that disappointment that you ultimately didn't get the colour of medal that you probably were striving to achieve?

KIM BRENNAN: London was actually a hugely positive experience. There was no tinge of disappointment at all in the London result. Brooke and I, in the double skull, we won silver, but we were beaten by probably the best women's double skull to have ever taken the water. And we had the best possible race we could have imagined. The single skull, I was really new to that event, and again, had the best regatta I could have been capable of at that time. And so it is quite funny when you come back home and you get questions like, oh, gee, you must be disappointed with the silver. I bet you want gold. And you're sort of standing there thinking that that was the best I could do. I'm competing against other people in this world who train just as hard, who want the same things that I do, and being able to respect the fact that sometimes you can be the best you can be, and that won't be the best in the world. And so as much as I was striving for the gold medal, my ultimate aim was to be the best single sculler I could be, come the final of Rio 2016. I can't control how fast my competitors are going to go. All I can control is how fast I'm going to go. And so you have to be able to accept that your best is good enough and be okay with that.

BEN WATERWORTH: And ultimately, of course, after London, I mean, the success you had in between London and Rio, you know, multiple world championship gold and just medals in between, undefeated in world cups heading into Rio. The confidence level heading into those games, as you were saying, kind of trying to get the best you can be. At that point, were you feeling this is I'm at the peak of my rowing ability. This is this is everything I've worked for. And do you go in with that confidence feeling like this is my time? I am going to do this?

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, actually, you know, I reflect on that sort of two minutes before the race starts. And, you know, leading into the games, I would often, you know, sit at the start line of a race that, you know, a Penrith regatta or a Canberra regatta. And I try to work myself into these nervous tears because, like, Kim, you're going to be so nervous at the Olympics because this means so much to you. So you've got to practice being nervous and still being able to race well. And then the whole irony of that was when I actually got to that Olympic final, I was incredibly calm because I just had this knowledge that I had done everything possible to perform in this race. There wasn't anything that I'd look back on and say, gee, I would have done that differently, or I wish I had have done this extra piece or this extra session, or I had have done that better. There was not a single thing in my preparation that I would have changed. And so I just had this calmness on the start line of, finally, I'm going to get the chance to race the race that I've been working towards for the past 11 years. And it was quite just a tranquil moment that I'm not sure that I will ever really experience again, because I can't imagine anything in my life ever being as prepared for as I was for that race.

BEN WATERWORTH: And how many times since have you relived it? I mean, how many times have you watched it? I guess, Kim, is it something that you on a Saturday night, you're just home, oh, cool, let's just watch me win gold medal again.

KIM BRENNAN: What's the rowing? Occasionally, if I'm doing a talk, people will play a bit of a snippet of the race. And usually the bit of crossing the line. And I still actually get quite emotional about it because I think I've done such a good job leading into the games of really just focusing on my race and what I had to do to do as well as possible. And I really tried to not think about the fact that, you know, the whole world was watching and there was a lot riding on it. And I think afterwards, when I realised how much was riding on that performance, you know, in terms of our rowing team and the future of our sport and, you know, inspiring young people and, you know, the things that flow on from it, it has a much bigger magnitude than I had allowed myself to process at the time. And I just, I can kind of still feel that relief of actually doing it, of racing that race that I trained myself to do because I would have found that so hard to have been so prepared and so ready and then to not get it right.

BEN WATERWORTH: And of course, you're mentioning, ultimately, you're then at the time who would become your future husband, Scott Brennan. Of course, I mean, the last time Australia had won a gold medal in rowing was back in Beijing with Scott in that event. And you've come through there to get the gold for Australia as well. I mean, Scott wasn't there, I believe, at the event. Are you thinking to yourself, well, I just want to get on the phone. I want to talk to him like, hey, honey, look, you know, we're gold medallists together now.

KIM BRENNAN: You know, there are a couple of people that I really wanted to see after the race. You know, I wanted to speak to Scott and I wanted to see my coach, Lyle McCarthy. You know, Lyle and I, he was my first coach once I was selected on the Australian team up in Canberra. He looked after me for 10 of the 11 years and I raced on the Australian team. You know, that's a long time to be working with one coach and we really came through this journey together. And he's a great friend of Scott and I, also coach Scott. And so there are some very special people who play a huge role in any performance, who you really want to share it with. And, you know, it was actually, it was really beautiful, you know, finally getting home and seeing Scott. And, you know, just being able to sit on the couch and chat about what happened.

BEN WATERWORTH: Are you both wearing your medals? Just going like, hey, check this out.

KIM BRENNAN: No, the funny thing is, I don't think Scott even knows where he is. He's very modest about his. He's incredibly modest. And I think sometimes I have to remind him a little bit that, you know, it was a phenomenal achievement and huge inspiration to me. And, you know, it wasn't just the race, but everything he taught me about how to think and how to really push my limits, how to communicate, how to be the best athlete I could be. He's incredibly understated. So there's definitely no medals flashing around the house.

BEN WATERWORTH: So did you just wear yours in for ages just for the fact that you could at least soak up the moment yourself?

KIM BRENNAN: No, it's actually, it stays in the sock drawer and then it comes out. It's really fun to take around to, you know, talks and schools and just see the excitement that it brings people. That's one of the things that I love about the medal. But the actual medal itself, I've got the memories and I couldn't ask for anything more. I've got the friendships, I've got the knowledge that, you know, I set myself a difficult task and was able to do it. So I don't need a thing to represent that. It will always be something that is inside me.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know personally, Kim, if I was an Olympic medallist, if I was an Olympian, I'd probably just never take my Olympic clothes off. But if I was a medallist, I mean, it would just never come off. I would wear it all the time. Hey, everyone, look, it's bronze, but I don't care. I want a medal. That's why I'm not an Olympian.

KIM BRENNAN: You should do that.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, look, I'm still at the age. I'm going to eventually try out for the curling team. I guess maybe that could be something. That's probably the only athletic ability I could have.

KIM BRENNAN: It's a great sport.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, you know, it's an Olympic sport, so I can't complain. Exactly. I mean, obviously, the honour then too, carrying the flag out to the closing ceremony as well. I mean, that's something that just, you know, bestowed on very few Australians over the years. Obviously, only one person gets to do it per Olympics. I mean, that in itself must have been just the perfect icing on the cake for your Olympics.

KIM BRENNAN: Oh, it was really beautiful. I chaired the Australian Olympic Committee Athletes Commission for the four years leading into Rio, and we've done a lot of work on really building a strong team culture and just seeing the Australians come out and, you know, mingling between sports and being so proud of what it meant to be an Australian Olympian was really incredibly special and something that I feel so honoured to have been able to do. And I think it was one of those moments that I'm so proud of what our team achieved. And I feel sometimes quite frustrated when commentary around the Olympics can focus on the negatives and like, oh, we didn't win all the medals that we said we were going to win and these people underperformed. And with very little understanding of how hard it is to go to an Olympic Games, compete against the absolute best in the world when every other country in the world is also trying to win those events and still conduct yourself in a way that is commensurate with being an Australian Olympian. And I think our team had it just in exceptional culture. They supported each other so well, and you really couldn't have asked for anything more. And so to be able to celebrate that together was really nice.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's something that we talked a lot about on the show during the Games, was this pressure aspect, because there's always that announcement, I guess, pre-Games isn't there, that we're expected to win, you know, 12, 15 gold medals. We come home with seven. And as you said, there's some people in the media and just out there feel that's disappointing. I mean, going back to sort of what you mentioned about Barcelona, I mean, I grew up in that period, too, when Australia would win seven, nine gold medals. That was a great thing, you know? I mean, we've got, what, 15 in Sydney, you know, 16, and then more in Athens, and it kind of seemed like we were overachieving, now we're kind of back, I guess, to say what was standard. I mean, it must be, as you were just saying, from that perspective, to come home to all these welcome home parades and to celebrate our achievements, to just have that aspect of people who are saying, well, seven, that's disappointing. I mean, that really shouldn't be the case. We should, as you said, celebrate the performance of the Olympic team no matter what we come home with, whether it's seven, 70 or none.

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, I think it is a minority. I did realise that they're not the welcome home parades, that the vast majority of Australia were exceptionally proud and were absolutely wonderfully supportive. I think the naysayers who were saying not good enough, I mean, in the lead up to the Sydney Games, there was a real investment in sport, both from the government and from the corporate sector. That really trickled off after the Sydney Games. I think Athens still had the momentum of the Sydney Games and it still had a lot of athletes who had been blooded with great experience in Sydney, still performing well. But since then, funding from the government has really stagnated and for a number of reasons, in real terms, it's actually gone down a lot. And at the same time, other countries are investing a lot more in sport. And the result of that is that a lot of the time, amateur athletes from Australia are competing against professional athletes from overseas. And it's a lot harder. Australia were definitely a first mover in what the Australian Institute of Sport was and the amount of investment going into Sydney. And I think it's unrealistic to think that we're going to be able to achieve those numbers without extra investment in sport, whether that is from the government or if it is from the private sector.

BEN WATERWORTH: You mentioned the Welcome Home Parades. I was actually at the one here in Hobart. I mean, you've also got a great connection to Tasmania, given that Scott is Tasmanian. You're married here in Hobart, I believe, as well. But I saw the reaction that you got from the fans at the Welcome Home Parade here in Tasmania. There was big banners and it's almost like a fan club for you here. I mean, what was that like sort of coming down here to see that experience when, you know, out of all the Welcome Home Parades, I guess?

KIM BRENNAN: Oh, it was so cool. I definitely penciled Hobart as one that I would not miss for the world. We did get married there. I spent a lot of time down in Hobart and Tassie with Scott and his family. And I think, you know, Hobart has, or Tasmania has, a really exceptional, in particular, rowing community. You know, the term punch above your weight is used a lot. But in terms of rowing, it couldn't be more true for Tasmania. And, you know, the number of medal-winning Olympians that have come from what is essentially a very small state is quite exceptional. And, you know, just the atmosphere at the Tassie Welcome Home Parade is really special. We always get given little gifts, which you don't get anywhere else. So that was really fun.

BEN WATERWORTH: What do you get? Do you just get like little Tasmanian food? I mean, what sort of gifts do Tasmanian give you?

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah. Well, we got a Tassie Devil in 2012. And this time around, we got these beautiful lavender heat packs and some, you know, some fresh honey and just, you know, some delicious Cadbury chocolate.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes. Well, there you go. That's what you'd expect from Tasmania. So we try to, I mean, the interesting thing about the Welcome Home Parade last year, I found, was that it was the first time that we had had, I'm not sure if it was just gold medallists or multiple gold medallists actually come, because I mean, it's sort of rare that some of the gold medallists will come to the Tasmania one. But I mean, we obviously had yourself. We had Chloe Esposito there. We had Catherine Skinner. The Campbells were there.

KIM BRENNAN: Exactly.

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, we had pretty much the majority of the gold medallists came down to Hobart. So we were, I think, chuffed that that had happened, because it had been a while since we had that many gold medallists. I think maybe since Sydney, I remember we had a large string of them. But yeah, it was great.

KIM BRENNAN: Well, we definitely talked up how good the Hobart Welcome Home Parade was. So there was that component of it. But the other component was, you know, talking about the team culture at the Olympics. But part of that was that we'd all become great friends. And so no one wanted to miss out. We all wanted to, you know, share that as much as possible. And it is one of the nice things about the Olympics that you can get to know and become friends with people from across a range of different sports and experiences.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, we slowly took a bit of credit on Off The Podium for Chloe winning the gold in the Modern Pentathlon, because on day one, we spoke up how amazing Modern Pentathlon was, and we were counting down the days till it started. And when she won gold, we were like, well, hello, we brought this out to the open for Australia. You're welcome. So I just hope that if Chloe ever listens to this, she knows that. I forced myself to get a selfie with her on that Welcome Home Parade. So that was my achievement unlocked on that day, basically.

KIM BRENNAN: Oh, absolutely. Well, I'll send a link to Chloe, and she can know that she's got a fan club down there.

BEN WATERWORTH: She does. Trust me, she does. You mentioned at the top of the interview, outside of your sporting career, you know, you're active in your legal pursuits. You've had columns in the age. You've won awards I mentioned before. Advocate for women's sport as well out there. Very outspoken about this. I mean, you've got so many passions with this, Kim. And now with outside of your rowing, is this kind of where you're transferring that passion into what you're doing? I mean, is this what your career now is in the legal industry? I mean, what are you up to now? I guess that's my long winded way of asking that.

KIM BRENNAN: Yeah, I've actually I've taken a job at Ernst & Young in in their advisory wing, which is a bit of a change for me being, you know, a lawyer by trade. But one of the nice things is that I'm getting a lot more exposure to, you know, how government departments work, how big business works to actually expand my knowledge beyond sport. You know, absolutely, one day I'd love to, you know, get back in there and make a real difference. But I felt that, you know, perhaps I didn't have the broader perspective to be able to, from the outside, look in and just felt that I wanted to improve the skills that I had to be able to contribute in a more meaningful way to the, you know, the future of sport in this country. So I'm working in that capacity and actually really loving it.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's good. So does that mean now that rowing, you're retired from rowing? That's it? No more defending the title come 2020?

KIM BRENNAN: I haven't actually retired. That was funny because after the race, I, you know, if you had have asked me then, I would have said, look, I'm done. I just felt satisfied and, you know, really looking forward to just spending some time at home. And, and then I came back and I did a couple of races over in the US and I hadn't trained at all and I still went really fast. And I was like, oh gee, maybe I don't need to do the training. I can just, you know, go on base, go on base fast. You know, the reality of that is absolutely ridiculous. That's not how things work. I think, you know, I'm actually really enjoying work. I think I will retire. I've just seen so many athletes retire and then come back. But I've sort of said, you know, I'll give it a couple of years to make sure that this is the right call for me. You know, if you ask me now, I'm 99% certain that I will move on. There's so many other things out there. It's so nice to be able to have more time to spend at home, to spend with my husband, to be there for friends and family, and to give back to sport in another way.

BEN WATERWORTH: Plus, you've got the full set of the Olympic medals anyway. You've got a gold, silver and a bronze. You've collected them all, essentially, Kim.

KIM BRENNAN: Probably only get worse.

BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly. You don't get something for fourth, apparently. You've got the full collection. Kim, it's been a lot of fun. Absolute pleasure to have you here on the show to talk about this. Best of luck with everything, with your career. If that 1% chance happens that you're in Tokyo in three years' time to defend the title, we wish you all the best of luck with that, but appreciate your time and it's been a lot of fun.

KIM BRENNAN: Thank you very much for having me.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic to chat with Kim there, and very insightful to hear throughout that chat, everything to do with her career. And obviously, we are hopeful that perhaps she can continue on, come back for Tokyo in 2020. And we appreciate Kim giving her time for us here on Off The Podium, and we've got plenty more to come. We've got more interviews to come your way, Australian, Canadian, you name it, we've got them. Gold medallists, no medallists, whatever, they're out there and they're ready to chat to us. So we're very happy to bring these to you, and we hope you enjoy them. Also, again, at some point, be coming all together. Jared, myself and Colin, talk about 2018, the Winter Olympics are a year away. Get excited, and we would have come up with some filler, basically between now and February 2018. So I'm sure we can make it happen, but yes, very, very exciting, and we are glad that you are back listening to us. Off The Podium on Facebook is where you can find us, and remember to subscribe to us on iTunes. Easiest way to get these direct to your devices. Leave us a feedback rating, whatever you want to do, and if you don't use iTunes, you can search for Off The Podium on your relevant podcast server. But we appreciate your time on the show today. Stay tuned for more interviews, and thank you for listening to us here on Off The Podium.