Jayden Lawrence & Connor Evans Interview
A special dual interview episode for you to sink your teeth into today on Off The Podium as we continue the build up to the Tokyo Olympics, as we sit down with Australian wrestlers Jayden Lawrence & Connor Evans to learn more about the sport, as well as their amazing careers! Both Jayden & Connor give us a unique insight into the sport and teach us more about how it works, how to score and just why there isn't a referee coming in to count somebody out to 3. We also find out just how close each of them were to making the Tokyo team and learn just why these Olympic games are breaking an unwanted record for Australia when it comes to the sport of wrestling. Added to this some pretty fun stories around beating and being beaten by certain rivals, this is one interview you definitely won't want to miss!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast, coming to you today for another exciting interview episode. And we're creating history today in Off The Podium. The first time we've had two athletes on at the same time, a dual interview, which is very, very exciting for us to do, especially when we're learning about a brand new sport, the sport of wrestling. No, not the one with the chairs and the ladders and the cages, the actual wrestling, the real wrestling, the Olympic wrestling. We have on the line today to talk to you, two athletes, Connor Evans and Jayden Lawrence, both Australian wrestlers, who sadly are not about to compete in Tokyo. Unfortunately for both of them, they missed out so close. And we're gonna hear just how close they did get to making the team. And it's actually a bit of an interesting Olympics for Australia when it comes to the sport of wrestling. You will hear us talk about, this is the first time Australia will not have any competitors in the sport of wrestling in 100 years, which in itself is a very sad fact. And we're gonna find out a little bit about why that is the case. But it's actually a really great, very interesting chat here with both Jayden and Connor, because as you'll hear me explain, this is a sport that I know very little about. It's a sport that you only do ever generally see in Australia during the Olympics or the Commonwealth Games. And for a lot of Australians, their first real exposure to the sport of wrestling came in Sydney 2000 with Roy HG's sort of joke commentary that they did on their show, The Dream. And of course, a lot of people there, for formed an opinion of the sport and probably know little about how it actually works. So Jayden and Connor are great in this chat here explaining how the sport works, how the scoring system works, just exactly how you get points in this sport. And it's very fascinating to kind of learn the details about a sport that again, as I said, Australians really aren't that exposed to. For our Canadian listeners today, it's obviously probably gonna be a little bit different as Canada has a bit of a history with the sport of wrestling. So therefore, that might be not exactly new, but for our Australian listeners, like myself, this is very new and very informative. Both Jayden and Connor are great here, share some great stories from their time competing in the sport. Bit of fun here, poking some fun at some rivals across the way, as well as learning who we should be watching out for come the Tokyo Olympics when it comes to the sport of wrestling. So I think you're all gonna enjoy this chat as much as I am going to enjoy bringing it to you today. Our chat with Australian wrestlers, Jayden Lawrence and Connor Evans.
BEN WATERWORTH: We're getting closer and closer to Tokyo 2020 or 2021, however you want to classify it. We're continuing to learn a bit more about some of the sports at the Olympics and speak to some athletes who compete in those. And I'm very excited to learn more today about the sport of wrestling, a sport that, as I've just mentioned to our two guests off air, I know very little about, outside of getting to watch it every four years or every couple other years at the Commonwealth Games. I think as a kid, I was first introduced to it by the esteemed Roy HG, doing some lovely commentary of it back in the Sydney Olympic Games, as I think a lot of Australians probably were. And it's probably not the best way to get some education from the sport. But we've got two guests on the show today who are gonna teach us a little bit more about it. First, I'd like to welcome Jayden Lawrence, a freestyle wrestler. Jayden, first of all, welcome to the show.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Oh, thanks, thank you, glad to be here.
BEN WATERWORTH: And also another freestyle wrestler as well, Connor Evans, Connor, also welcome to Off The Podium. It's a pleasure to have you on as well.
CONNOR EVANS: Thanks very much for having me.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, first of all, let's get the one question out of the way that you get every single bloody day. This wrestling is real, right? This is the real one, isn't it? Okay.
CONNOR EVANS: I think I can speak for both myself and Jayden. We actually started wrestling because we thought it was WWE. And then obviously turned out, realised it wasn't, but kind of fell in love with the sport after that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, yes, Jayden, there's no steel chairs in this one, right? There's no ladders and cage matches.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, no, no, there's no... But he's right. It's how, well, before, that's how most of the wrestlers actually started in Australia. They thought it was the WWE, but then they transitioned. And yeah, that's how mainly people start.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it a disappointment then, when you do rock up to like a wrestling gym and all of a sudden you go, oh crap, where's the ring? Where's, you know, where's Vince McMahon? This isn't what I was expecting.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, no, it was a good transition. It was fun from the very first day I stepped on the mat.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great, great. So, I mean, I'll direct this one to you, Connor, and then Jayden, by all means, chime in afterwards. I mean, sort of was that as a kid, you were watching things like the WWE and kind of that just did spark that passion for sort of like a kind of a physical combat sort of sport. Was it always wrestling? Was it kind of, you know, looking at other sort of combat sports along the way?
CONNOR EVANS: To be honest, like as a kid, I never really looked to get into combat sports. I think my dad was keen to get me out of the house and off the PlayStation because I spent about too much time in it. So I tried soccer, I tried swimming, I tried a bunch of different stuff, and wrestling just happened to be the one that kind of sucks. So I did like watch a little bit of professional wrestling. I was never majorly in it, but I was like, oh, cool, I'll get my crack, and then like you say, talking about my first training session, it was a little bit disappointed when there wasn't like a ring or like where I can jump off the top rope or anything like that. But then I actually tried the session, loved it, and stuck with it since pretty much.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jayden, was it a similar case for you?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, I was playing soccer at the time when I first started. But then my cousin, I mean, my cousins were quite into the WWE, and then he found a place that did freestyle wrestling and then brought me along the next week. And yeah, I quit soccer a year after and then just kept wrestling because of how much I loved it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Bit of a difference from soccer to wrestling.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, I never did. I did nothing, no combat sports before. Like I did gymnastics, soccer, but nothing like that at all. But I just found quite natural at it and yeah, enjoyed it straight off that.
CONNOR EVANS: Because a lot of the time we have wrestling camps, we play soccer during our like, like, kill down periods and Jayden is definitely better at wrestling than a soccer player.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Lucky I did the transition ache on him.
BEN WATERWORTH: None of you are going to be sort of, you know, yeah, switching sports anytime soon, then perhaps going that way. I mean, I'll start with you with Jayden with this one, sort of when you do go along to a local wrestling club. I mean, what was kind of that scene sort of like? I mean, was it a booming sport? Were there many people doing it? Or was it kind of a bit opposite back in the day when you sort of got into it?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: When I first started, there was, it was a few, you know, kids and because I started when I was nine years old in Australia, it was a few, there was, I reckon there was more kids probably back then to now. But it is started going again slowly now. But it didn't, at the time, apart from overseas, because overseas there was like thousands and thousands and thousands of kids, depends on the country. But at the time, I thought, you know, this is a lot of people. But now I say it's not a lot of people.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, was it the similar thing for you?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, so I was just starting wrestling back in Scotland when I was six. But there's a pretty similar scene in Scotland as Australia. Like we've, we had a lot of kids. But in terms of like the world level, we couldn't really compete with a lot of the international countries. And then same sort of thing. It started to get not as much dying as a sport, but like the numbers started to drop off a bit. But now the MMA is kind of back in fashion, I guess. Like more and more people are starting coming into the sport. So it's like with the introduction to MMA and Jiu Jitsu, it's obviously helped us grow a bit as well. But yeah, like when I started, it was, I never really thought of it being there as more than a hobby. And I just kind of stuck with it and it's kind of grown from there.
BEN WATERWORTH: So on that note, then I'll start with you, Connor, with this one. So, I mean, there wasn't that sort of burning desire once you got into it that this could say lead to an Olympics or a Commonwealth Games or something like that. It was just sort of something that you developed along the way and realised, OK, well, I'm good enough that I could reach these levels.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, definitely. So when I started, as I said, I was six when I started, so like still a kid, like had no idea really what wrestling was. And I was just there to kind of find some excess energy that I may have had during the day, kind of stopping by my parents, I guess. But yeah, with that, like I started competing pretty early on and got a bit of a taste for it. And then I think like my first major one was the the British Championships. And then from there, it was like, oh, you know, I'm actually not bad. I might continue. Like I've always been really, really competitive. So anything I've done, like I want to go in and win. And then obviously, winning the British Championships, it kind of sparked a bit more. And then I think the following year or two after that, I was competing internationally. So I was 11 or 12 when I started competing internationally. And that's when I was like, all right, I can actually have like a good go at this and then just kind of progress through there.
BEN WATERWORTH: Until the grass is greener on this side of the world then and decided that, you know, I'd rather wear green and gold rather than, you know, red, white and blue. That's kind of how it worked.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, I was going to say the life scale here is definitely much better. I think that was the biggest factor for us.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jayden, was that a similar thing to you, that kind of that sort of as you progressed, you thought you could do well at this? Or did you sort of harbour desires to become an Olympian or a Commonwealth Games athlete along the way?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, quite at the start because the level in Australia, or even at the time, even now, isn't quite high. But when I first started, I kind of exploded into like the scene quite quick. And from the get-go, I was thinking I could go quite far in the sport. And that's why I kept at it and still going, obviously.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of the two disciplines, so freestyle and Greco-Roman, and either of you jump in here, I mean, what's the easiest way of explaining the differences and what, I guess, led you both to doing freestyle over Greco-Roman?
CONNOR EVANS: I was going to say, for me personally, well, I guess when I started, no one in Scotland really done Greco, so it was just everyone was freestyle. But I think the main difference is you're obviously not allowed to attack or use the lower half of the body to attack in Greco. So with freestyle, you're free to attack the legs, you can attack the upper body, all that sort of stuff as well. So I find when I do, because I've trained a little bit of Greco before, I find quite restricted in what I'm allowed to do. And the other thing as well that you can tend to find at the top levels, a lot of international Greco matches tend to sell out of it, so they're not as free-flown as what you find free-sellers. But that's the main difference, it's just truly the fact you're not allowed to use your legs to help your enemy for Greco.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which, is it free-style then is considered the more entertaining one? Like based on that that you can't use the legs?
CONNOR EVANS: I'll go back to that, I'll go back to that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which, I mean, it must make it interesting then, is there like a rivalry then between the free-style and the Greco? Like do they sort of prounce around thinking, we're the better ones because we're more skilled, we can't use the legs, so we've got to think differently, and you guys just have it easy, or do the freestylers just look at them and go, well, you guys are idiots, you can't use your fucking legs, what the hell is going on?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Well, normally in international competitions and international teams, they actually are separate, so I guess they could be kind of that rivalry, because most teams overseas, they train differently, so as in like train different. So you'll have a Greco team, and you have a freestyle team, so yeah, I guess there would be that rivalry for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of training, when it comes to looking at different combat sports, obviously you can see where the training would come from, but is wrestling a sport where you just literally just got to keep wrestling men? That's all you've got to do. I mean, it's kind of there. Is it more of an agility sort of training? Is there a physical strength that is required, or is it sort of a mixture of both? Maybe I'll start with you, Jayden. Maybe you can sort of give us experiences of sort of what your focus has been on that training, kind of what works best for you.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: You kind of need all of the above. You need to have the whole shebang, basically. You need to be strong. You need to be fit. You need to have agility, even flexible, let's say. Because it's such a unique sport where you're versing the person one on one, any advantage will get you out of the line, basically.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, for yourself, I mean, I'm just sort of staring at both of you here, and I can see the sort of the upper body. I wouldn't want to come across you in a dark alley. I think I might be quite scared. I mean, was that kind of your skill set? Like, I've got the stronger top half here, so I'm going to throw you around a little bit more.
CONNOR EVANS: To be honest, I think for our weight divisions, both me and Jayden are actually quite small in terms of the core. But yeah, similarly what Jayden said, you do require to be quite well-rounded across all kinds of physical disciplines. Our warm-up kind of surprised a lot of people. We do a lot of gymnastics in the warm-up, so you tend to find we'll spend 15, 20 minutes doing rolls, flips, all that sort of stuff. And like Jayden said, the better wrestlers are generally pretty flexible as well. They can do a full split, drop a hat if they have to, do a defence or that sort of stuff. But yeah, definitely. I think one of the things that kind of sets wrestling apart from other combat sports is because we're not looking to hurt someone when we train. Obviously, jujitsu would be like, you're forcing some missions, you're manipulating joints and choking someone out, or you're striking sports, you're trying to punch someone in the head. If you keep that intensity, you're going to run out of training partners pretty quickly. I think it's a little bit safer, so we can actually go in our sparring, we can have quite a high intensity for longer periods of time as well. So you're quite well conditioned for competition if you get good sparring during your training.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it a sport that either of you can kind of briefly explain, say, how the scoring works? Because when you watch it, it is definitely a sport that I guess for most Australians, that we are only seeing it in Olympics or a Commonwealth Games. It's not something we're turning on Channel 9 on a Saturday night, it's prime time. So for us heading into the Olympics, I'll start with you, Connor, and Jayden, chime in. I'm not saying either of you are going to be right or wrong here. Well, hopefully you're both going to be right. I hope you know how your sport works. How should I be watching wrestling? How do I know when somebody is going to score or what I should be looking out for?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, so pretty much the main kind of scoring points in wrestling, if I'm wrestling, I take someone down either in the stomach or on all fours, and I end up circling to their back, I get two points. If you take someone straight from standing and they fall on their back, that would be a four point takedown. Anytime you're on the ground and you can expose your opponent's back to the mat, so either if you roll under them or if you stay in problem as your back rolls towards the ground, you get two points. Push outs are worth one point. So there's a ring on the floor. If you get to the edge of the ring and you push someone out of that ring, you get one point, sorry. And that's pretty much the main scoring points. And if you go ten points clear of your opponent at any stage in the match, you win by technical superiority. So if I was to win 14-4, they would stop the match and declare me the winner. The other way that you can win is by putting someone flat on the ground. So both shoulders on the mat. F2 referees get visual confirmation of both shoulders touching, and that will pretty much give you an advantage.
BEN WATERWORTH: So somebody doesn't come in and count to three, though?
CONNOR EVANS: No, it's pretty much F2. The referees confirm that they've seen the shoulders touch mat, and once they've got that confirmation, the referee in the middle of the mat will call them nuts.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it... I mean, it sounds very strategic. This sounds like sort of a sport where, like, yeah, you're sort of mentioning some of these more physical ones. I mean, not say that they're not strategic, but say a boxing, for example, you know, kind of... It's kind of clear from a viewer what they're trying to do. Whereas, like, wrestling, it sounds like there's about five or six different ways that you can kind of go into it strategically. I mean, Jayden, maybe just with you, is it... When you're coming together with a strategy, are you the type of wrestler who would be more of an offensive wrestler or a defensive wrestler? Does it depend on your opponent, kind of, how you go into each bout?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, it depends on the opponent, obviously, but myself, I'm more of a... I try and get things done as quick as possible, technically. But it depends on the opponent. So if you get a real class opponent, you're going to have to find out a match because you won't be able to pin him in the first minute. So you'll have to strategically take silly takedowns, which will jeopardize your opportunity to score a point. You might get scored on. So, yes, it can be very strategic in the higher levels. And that's what it will sometimes come down to as well. Because sometimes you can win a whole match with just one point. So it's very strategic.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, yourself, are you sort of similar page there to Jayden?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, I'm probably not as offensive as Jayden. I like to work off defence a little bit more than trying to score off that. Again, it depends on the opponent. Sometimes, you know, if the guys got better cardio than you, you might go in and try and finish it early. If you think you're technically better than the AIs, because the longer the bout was on, the more chance you would have it winning. But I think in general, the rule set kind of favours the more offensive wrestler. So if you're pushing the pace of the whole match, it works in your favour sort of the later it goes. But again, it's just that sort of risk and reward. It's like if you push too hard too early, you might gas in the later rounds, and it may not be an issue. So it completely depends on who you're wrestling, how your count is being rolled up, the big ones, and all that sort of stuff.
BEN WATERWORTH: And I can imagine too that you could go in with a strategy and then all of a sudden your opponent's doing something differently or something's not working out. So I can imagine it's a quick thinking sport too, where all of a sudden, okay, well, this is not going to work if I'm going to take this guy on, so I'm going to have to switch up. I mean, kind of like, I mean, is that always going through the brain basically, the strategy kind of, okay, change it up now, this is going to work if I do it something differently.
CONNOR EVANS: I think in general, like, when we train, like, we prepare ourselves to kind of, for any situation that might come up. Obviously, like, you're not going to go in and win every match that you ever wrestle. But I tend to find, like, I've got a rough idea of what I want to do when I get on the mat, but then once I'm in there, I just kind of go in and pilot. Like, I don't really think it's a lot of muscle memory. I guess I've done this sport for 22 years, so I can rely on experience a little bit to get me through some of the worst situations that I've been in. But again, everyone's different. You can't go in and just expect to win based on what your opponents have done and matched before that, because, like you say, it can change at the drop of a hat.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jayden, you mentioned that the guy likes to go in there and get things done, so do you have a different way of kind of changing things up halfway through? You're like, shit, this isn't gonna go over quickly. I kind of thought it would be done by now.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, well, as I said, it depended on the refiner, but I kind of like don't waste opportunities, so if there's an opportunity to pin him, like, you know, within 30 seconds, I'll certainly do so, because you don't just have one match in one day. The whole tournament you could have up to, you know, four to five matches. So you can finish off the first few opponents real quick and then the last make the finals, you know, a grind, let's say. It's best to finish off the fights as quick as possible, so you can have more energy at the end of the day.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of the bouts itself, I mean, are they divided into rounds? And if they are, do you sort of get like a break? Like, is it kind of like boxing where you've got a coach there, kind of like, okay, do this, do that, do this, or is it kind of all reliant on yourself?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, so in each match, there's two rounds of three minutes, and there's 30 seconds break between the rounds. So it may not sound long, six minutes, a whole match, but if you're grinding out the whole match, constantly attacking or defending, it's quite strenuous. And if you do that four to five times in your day, it's quite a big day.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because I know in watching it, you'll have some matches where it looks very fast-paced, everything, and they're almost like a stalemate sometimes, it seems, with it. Is there, when you're in those bouts of the stalemates, is that a frustration thing sometimes when you're both trying to do something and you just go that way, or does all this just come into, again, strategy, how you're developing in the match and changing it up a little bit?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, it could be two things. It could be the strategy, all right, or it could be both people are tired. So if you find the first, you know, let's say round, both wrestlers are going hard at it, and then towards the end of the round, they're not doing as much as they were in the beginning because it's quite exhausting. So sometimes, yes, they are trying to have a rest, but the new day and age type of wrestling where you can't rest too much is stopping all that. So it's mainly strategic.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of then, I'll direct this to Connor and Jayden, you can answer as well. You know, in those moments where you're tired and kind of you're going that way, how do you find that spur of energy? Like, is it just that will to win, that desire? Like, you know, just all of a sudden some adrenaline kicks in or something like that. If you're competing at home, maybe the crowd gets involved and kind of spurs you on a little bit. Sort of is there a sort of a second wind you can find in yourself in those moments?
CONNOR EVANS: I was going to speak for Jayden on this one, but me personally, I feel like if I'm at the point of exhaustion, it's like, well, I've worked this hard with another minute or two's worth of like hard work to get the benefits of the hard work. There's nothing worse than having like a really close match, being absolutely exhausted and losing by a point with like maybe 10 seconds to go. Like it's the worst feeling in the world. So I think that's probably the biggest thing that kind of spurs me on is like, if I'm willing to put myself through five and a half minutes before the torture to try and beat this guy, I'm going to try and make sure that I do everything I can to win it.
BEN WATERWORTH: I just want to say, Jayden, for you, I think, does that come from the beard? Does that like help you? Like you just store a bit of energy left in that beard to all of a sudden go, fuck this, I'm going to get this guy.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, the beard is to make me look like I'm 12 years old.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, you know, it works. I'm scared right now, so you know, it's pulling off quite well. Now, in terms of competition results and sort of how you're going, Jayden, I'll start with you. Obviously competing in two Commonwealth Games here, but between the Commonwealth Games, you went from being in the 74 kilos to the 86 kilos. I mean, when that comes about, sort of is that a personal choice? Like, do you think, okay, I can do better in a heavier category? Do you just eat a lot more McDonald's in the four years between Glasgow and Gold Coast? I mean, kind of what brings about changing weight divisions, I guess, in between those years?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Well, when I was doing, because I started quite young, so I went through a whole lot of divisions. I went from 66 to 74, then 86 in my main senior year, senior years, just because I got bigger, basically. As in, like, not spatter, but as in my bone structure and my physique got bigger. So I was physically, well, not physically impossible, but, you know, I thought it was the best to... the best to go up a division for myself. So, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: And does that then benefit you? Like, I mean, I guess it's something that, you know, you kind of can't help if you are growing sort of again that bigger. I mean, did you find it helped you more going into these, you know, heavier divisions, or were you more suited to the smaller divisions, the smaller weight divisions?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Me personally, it was, yeah, I actually was much better in the 66 division, because I'm not the strongest guy out there. And 74 and 86 are much stronger opponents than the 66. 66 are more agility, fast, which is I was quite used to. And that's where I had the most success when I was in that division. But it's, each division, they're similar, but then different at the same time. They all, you know, all get exhausted and all that. But one gets every, as soon as you jump out of the division, they're stronger, basically.
BEN WATERWORTH: And Connor, for yourself, 74 kilo division, was that a similar thing for you? Kind of you start off small, getting bigger, or kind of you just went to the gym more? I don't know.
CONNOR EVANS: I was actually, so I was the division later than Jayden at the Commonwealth Games, but I was probably walking around a bit heavier than he was. From EMX 74, it was a huge cut. I'm about 181cm and walk around normally about 89-90kg, so I was doing about 16kg to get to make weight. So yeah, over the last few years, I've bounced around a fair bit. So I started at 86kg and then went to 74 from the Commonwealth Games. Absolutely hated cutting and then bounced up, and then for the last Olympic trial went 97kg. So over the course of a couple of years, I've hacked on about 20kg in terms of the divisions that I was competing in.
BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, I guess it's one of those things, though, where you have to be very anal with your diet because you've got to meet weight. And how does the weigh-in work? Is it similar to boxing, where you just get weighed on the morning to ensure you're in weight or things like that?
CONNOR EVANS: So it actually killed me during the Commonwealth Games because in 2017, we were halfway through the qualification for it, and that was the day before weigh-in. And about six months from the Games, they made it a same day weigh-in. So I was going from having about 12 hours to recover between weigh-in and competition to two. So I obviously had gone from like 8 to 9 kilos to 74 for like a same day weigh-in was an absolute nightmare shit. It was about, for the same day, I spent about seven weeks cutting weight, and that seven weeks I had to watch pretty much everything I ate. I was running two or three times a day on top of the training that I was doing in sweat suits and all that sort of stuff. But I think once everyone realised that it was going to be really hard to make the weight, you pretty much find like, especially internationally, everyone just moved up one division. So you're still getting the same weight categories as people who aren't cutting as much weight, which I think is better for the sport because you see people fully fit in the day comp rather than depleting some things due to a bad weight cut.
BEN WATERWORTH: How, so in terms of the diet then, I can imagine you have to be so strict, like you can't sort of go all of a sudden, I'll have an extra biscuit today because that's going to put on like 50 grams or something like that. It is a case where you have to plan out your food because you know what will sort of keep you within that weight range.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, definitely. The way I kind of just fight it was like I would have like, because I think I think that a lot of people don't realise that I've never done weight cuts for combat sports. It takes a lot mentally as well. It affects your moods. I found like I was a horrible person to be around when I was cutting weight. I just didn't want to speak to anyone. And the way that I kind of, if I wanted to make myself feel better and go out and have some lollies or whatever, and I would just fight my ass like, all right, I can have like maybe 100 grams of lollies today, that means I have to run an extra two or three case tomorrow. It's just like, you have to balance it, like find that balance. And then it's like risk and reward, I guess. If you know you can get the weight off, then it's all good. But it does happen quite a lot where people have bad weight cuts just because they're not disciplined enough or they just have taken some bad advice. Whenever I was cutting, I had a dietitian that I worked with and I never had any issues with the weight coming off. But you see a lot of people who just think, oh, I'm just going to starve myself in the week of, or I'll dehydrate myself without any really, any kind of plans in place to recover as well. I think recovery is probably more important than losing the weight in the first place. I mean, anyone can make the weight if they have to. It's just what's the point in making weight if you kill yourself and then you can't compete in the day to come.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jayden, do you sort of have any unique moments where you have sort of, yeah, with the weight sort of, you know, cutting or sort of food? I mean, was there certain foods that was always difficult for you to try and go, oh yeah, I won't have one more slice of cheesecake or something along those lines because, you know, I won't make that weight tomorrow if I do that.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, well, that's part of why I jumped up weight classes quite quickly through my senior years is because when I was little, well, when I was younger, I cut weight quite big and I didn't like the way I performed. So, and I felt much, much better when I didn't cut as much weight. So that's why if I got too big, like, as in structure wise, I didn't want to cut myself too much because I didn't like the way I felt on the competition day.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of sort of going back to the Commonwealth Games performances for both of you here, obviously, Jayden, you competed in Glasgow and Gold Coast, made the bronze medal final and ultimately didn't come away with the medal. I mean, sort of, did you go into those games hoping to get a medal and kind of getting that close, sort of, you know, does that spur you on to kind of push towards more success going forward?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, in Glasgow, I was really, really, let's say, confident that I was going to get real close to getting a medal. And same as in Gold Coast, but Gold Coast was there, there was a whole bunch of things going on personally in my life. I don't know if you hear my son.
BEN WATERWORTH: We always like some atmosphere in the background.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: He was the reason why he was born prematurely at Commonwealth Games, and I had to fly back to Sydney at the time. So there was a big going on at Commonwealth Games, but then I ended up going back again to Gold Coast just for the day to compete.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, so there was that drama. But my Gold Coast was like part of my redemption, well, before all the crisis happened. It was my kind of my redemption, and I felt the best I've felt in a very long time. And I thought I was going to go quite well, but my head just wasn't wasn't there quite, unfortunately.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which also like, I mean, opportunity to compete at a home Commonwealth Games as well. I mean, that was, you know, a unique experience. I mean, I had the pleasure of working at the Commonwealth Games. I was working during boxing, so I was there and the atmosphere and the Gold Coast and everything was fantastic. But I mean, I can imagine for yourself as an athlete to be able to compete in front of the home fans must have been an incredible experience.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. Well, Connor's experience in my experience would have been obviously a lot, lot different. Unfortunately, in the Commonwealth Games, Gold Coast, sorry. But because I went to the 2014, guys got one. I got the real feel of it. Unfortunately, didn't get the real feel of it because of the situation I was under for Gold Coast. But it was really good to have the home crowd really cheering for you. That was quite different. Never felt that before.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which I was going to say, for a sport like wrestling, again, I can't imagine that even the biggest events, the national championships and that, you wouldn't get a crowd the size that you would at a Commonwealth Games. I mean, for yourself to compete at home in front of a crowd like that would have been a very unique thing because it's not like the Georgian wrestlers or sort of, you know, these European wrestlers who are competing in full houses, you don't ever really get a chance to do that in front of your home crowd.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, it was really good change because, yeah, you're right with the, when we go to Europe for World Championships or something, obviously, they're home countries, they're all yelling, and there's no one really cheering for yourself when you're going overseas, but it was really, really good when we were home and you're having cheers to cheer you on. It was really good.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, for yourself, I mean, the experience, I mean, obviously competing for Australia. I guess I should ask you, at what point did you come to Australia and start representing Australia in the sport?
CONNOR EVANS: So I left Scotland in 2009, immigrated with family when I was 16, and then I actually stopped wrestling for about a year and a half, two years when I came here, which is because some stuff that happened back in Scotland, I was just over it. I suppose you kind of get to that age where it's like, I want to start going out with my friends and drinking and all that crap that 16, 17, 18 year olds do, I guess. And then I went to watch the Commonwealth Champion Championship being held at Montauk City in Melbourne, and I was like, oh, you know what? I kind of got the edge for it, I'll maybe get another crack. And then the following year, I think I started wrestling again, and then the year after that I was back in the national team. And I absolutely loved it. Like with the games, we had about three months worth of training camps together as a team. And like Jayden said, there's probably the best shape I've ever seen him in. And then I reckon for myself, that's the best I've ever been as well. And just as a team, I think we put in a lot of really good work and we're quite close as a team, which I think is quite hard to find in Australia. And going into the games, it was amazing. You definitely felt the support they have in everyone behind you. Even at the open ceremony, we kind of snuck our way to the front. The receptionist walked on. And obviously, as soon as the flag bearer walked around the corner and the announcer that I saw in Australia, you just heard the crowd going crazy pretty much. I've never been a part of anything like that. That was probably one of the best moments of the games for me, other than competing as well. But just kind of feeling that support, like coming from Scotland and having to represent Australia, feeling like I was actually part of the team and stuff made it really great. And yeah, I think the only thing that would have made it better would be bringing home a medal from the actual competition itself, but couldn't get that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, it was a similar situation. You obviously competing sort of in the same category that Jayden did in Glasgow, and similar, you know, unfortunately, you get to the bronze medal final and lose that. And you lose to a Canadian. Now, we're sort of a co-Australian Canadian podcast, so I'm sad that Colin's not on here. Actually, I'm a sad because he'd be probably celebrating the fact that you lost to a Canadian. But I mean, sort of, how is it when you get that deep into a competition, and I can imagine obviously the disappointment of losing a semi, and then kind of, you know, you've got one more chance to get a medal than that. I mean, sort of, how was that, you know, and how were you expecting to medal kind of based on what you were saying there about how you felt you were in sort of really good form?
CONNOR EVANS: I think, going into the comm, like, I thought that, like, I had a good draw. It was a good chance to medal, and I think that was the same for pretty much anyone in the issuing team. Like, if we got the right draw, we all probably could have medaled. And I think the two guys that are wrestlers in the semi-final and the bronze medal match that beat me on paper, you'd probably pick them and beat me. Like, I think if you're betting, you probably have better odds for the Canadian and the Indian. But I'm still happy with the way that I wrestled that day. I kind of performed as well as expected, I think. Went out and had a crack, obviously. And to be honest, they were better wrestlers on the daily. I can't complain that I was beaten by those two. I definitely think if I'd been on the other side of the draw, I was definitely within the chance of medaling. Like, I'd seen the South African who came second, and there's a Welsh guy who came third. Then I was pretty confident. If I'd had that draw, I probably would have won a medal. But at the end of the day, I'm still grateful for the chance to compete in that stage, and I feel like I could not have done it any better given the draw that I had. So it was still an amazing experience for me. It's one that I'll always disappoint not to win a medal. I still loved every minute of the experience.
BEN WATERWORTH: The best thing is, though, that you did beat a New Zealander in the quarterfinals.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, there is.
BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, do you buy into that now, sort of in Australia, how you've got to beat the kids? It's not even that you've got to beat the English, right? You've got to beat the Kiwis now that you're here.
CONNOR EVANS: I think in wrestling, the majority of times in Australia and New Zealand, we know how to win. Everything. But the New Zealand that I wrestle with, I'm actually pretty good mates with them. Often, we competed the previous year before in a bunch of different competitions. We never wrestled with each other before that. And I guess being small wrestling nations from this side of the world, we kind of stuck together. I actually knew him pretty well, and still speak to him to this day as well.
BEN WATERWORTH: Slight tangent to date, the day that we're recording this episode though, as somebody originally from Scotland, how great was it to see England lose on penalties this morning?
CONNOR EVANS: Well, it was good, but me, Jayden, and one of your other friends had a bet on, and if Italy had won in normal time, we would have got a fair amount of money back, so I was a bit scared for that. But I'm absolutely delighted that England lost. I couldn't wait to spend it off my face this morning.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's kind of like, you just get caught up in all this crap, and you're like, okay, well, if they've made the final, they've got to lose, and maybe heartbreak, and it happened.
CONNOR EVANS: If you're asking how they turned it, the fact they made the finals and then got beaten, it's kind of a perfect way for it to end for me.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's like if you follow AFL, it's like Collingwood make the grand final, they lose by a last kick after the siren. That's what you want, right? That's exactly it. Sorry for either of your Collingwood supporters, but I'm a Carlton supporter, so I don't really care. In terms of sort of post-Commonwealth games, so obviously with the Olympics just around the corner, I believe this is the first time Australia hasn't had any competitors in wrestling in quite some time. Either of you chime in here, what happened? Was it a COVID-related thing? Was it a qualification thing? Why are we not represented? Why am I not talking to two Olympians right now that are about to go to Tokyo?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Well, I lost in the semis. If I won that match, I'll go to the Olympics against, again, Nigeria, not the same Nigerian, but the same weight, I guess you could say, that beat me in the bronze medal final at Glasgow. So I lost to a Nigerian again in the semifinals of the African Championships, which is our qualification to get into the Olympics. And I lost it. And Connor's got his own different story of why he did not make it.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, the main was COVID-related, so pretty much I had the spot in the team to go to the African qualifier. And then obviously, so we actually were supposed to fly in Morocco last year. But three days from flying out, they canceled the competition and locked in the borders because of COVID. And this year, I thought it was just too much of a risk to travel to Chinesia to try and get there. So a big factor was the cost to get there was through the roof this year. It was about $8,500, I think, return for flights. Plus we had to pay for hotel quarantine, plus our accommodation. So there was obviously a lot of money for not 100% guarantee you're going to qualify. But as well as that, there was a real chance that you could have gotten locked down in Chinesia and not got back to Australia. So I just didn't want to take that risk. Thankfully, the team was saying everyone got back eventually. Some of the guys had to go to, I think, Italy to spend some time before they could actually get back to Australia.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, well, one of the flights got cancelled, so a few other athletes got stuck. I think it was in Greece.
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which, I mean, how do you think you would go? I mean, obviously, you know, it's something that, I guess it's the classic what if scenario, but I mean, you know, were you confident had you gone, you would have made it.
CONNOR EVANS: Look, the team was saying, like, everyone was always a chance to qualify. It depends on your draw, it depends on your feeling. I think that given my preparation, like, I would have been there or thereabouts. Like, I think I'd like top five was going to be me, but you need to be top two qualified. So I think you kind of have to have a bit of a good draw. So like, if you, I guess the big kind of nations in Africa that would be good would be Nigeria, Tunisia, and Egypt. They're the ones you kind of want to avoid. So if you can avoid maybe two out of those three, you're a good chance of qualifying. But, yeah, I mean, like, my preparation wasn't as good as it had been the year before because we had, like, field camps, there was no lockdowns. And then obviously that got cancelled. And then when we got word that we were still sending the team to the African qualifiers, it was probably three or four weeks out from the actual competition itself. So we didn't have a lot of time to really prepare for it.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of yourself, Jayden, obviously, I can imagine getting that close, that close and kind of just missing out.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I did it twice.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow. Wow. So, I mean, how does that... Does that spare you one more? Does that make you want to keep going? Like, towards Paris? Like, what does it do?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: It's frustrating. It was 2012 when I was able to go to the Olympics. I had the African Games as well. I went to the same spot, semifinals, and lost to Egypt. But I was nowhere going to be getting close to that Egyptian at the time. I was too young and he was too strong. But this time, I think I performed quite poorly at that final, at the semifinal, and I reckon I should have... I reckon I really should have won that match. I just was... My head was... I guess I was... I wasn't mentally up to it, but I just fell asleep, I guess you could say, this time. And then the 2004, again, I had two chances because I had... I went to the World Qualifications as well, and I come in the bronze medal final in the Worlds, and then you had to come top three, and I lost in the bronze medal final. So I lost quite close last time. And then the time before that, 2016, I blew my knee out, versus this fella here.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow. Right. So it's your fault, Connor.
CONNOR EVANS: No, no, that was his fault.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I was actually mid-throw, and we were in the air, and then I didn't realise I blew out my ACL. Ouch.
BEN WATERWORTH: So you don't realise that you kind of like... What do you go to stand up all of a sudden? Okay, something's not right here.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's on the web, so everyone can see, actually.
CONNOR EVANS: You sit up and try to hold back on the mat and finish the match.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: They had to tie me down and say, you're not going to go back out there.
BEN WATERWORTH: This is why you didn't do soccer, because you'd just be on the ground, right, having a sook if somebody bumped you slightly. This is where... ACL, that's nothing, mate. Come on, get the magic spray. Let me get back out there.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, I certainly wanted to keep going, but I wouldn't have been able to do anything after that, because the gentleman's still there, but it was quite a big injury. My meniscus blew out my ACL, so it was quite a big injury.
CONNOR EVANS: And if I had kept going, I would have definitely targeted his leg.
BEN WATERWORTH: Of course, right? You've always got to target those sort of trouble areas. But in terms of no athletes from Australia, I mean, is this... I'm just going through here, kind of each of the Olympics here. And I can't see any Olympics that Australia hasn't had any competitors on. I mean, do you know if this is the first time that Australia has not had a competitor at an Olympic Games?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I was thinking that on the way back when I said, oh, man, we didn't qualify anything from that, so I can't remember the last time we didn't. So, yeah, it was quite disappointing. Sad, really.
CONNOR EVANS: I think as well. Qualifications since 2012 has been a lot more difficult than it used to be. The qualification before 2012, you just had to win the Oceania Championships, and then you qualify your country spot in the Games. And in terms of developed regions, Oceania is by far the lowest. So if you win Australian Nationals, you're probably in a good position to win Oceania. Whereas now, if you win Australian Nationals, you're kind of on the track to doing OK in Africa. It doesn't guarantee the spot there pretty much. So it's a much harder qualification. But at the same time, you can't really take anything away from it. You know what the criteria is when you start, so you have to be at the standard to qualify.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is that a very similar thing, obviously, in football, soccer, whatever you want to call it? Australia did a similar path, I guess, when it came to joining Asia. We were sick of kicking New Zealand and Fiji's arse in Oceania and not having that direct qualification to the World Cup. Went through Asia and obviously, it's improved football in this country. Is that kind of a thing that you think will happen in wrestling, that by taking a different route, where you're going up against maybe some stronger nations, although right now it's obviously disappointing not to have any athletes in one Olympics, but over long term, it will improve the sport in this country?
CONNOR EVANS: I'm not sure about that because I think one of the biggest hurdles we've got is funding. So because we don't have much funding, we don't actually have a lot of participation within Australia. So the fact that it's now harder for us to get to Olympics means you probably get less funding, and then you tend to find more people might drop out as a result. I guess the guys who want to compete at the top level aren't there for any kind of money. If you want to get to the Olympics, you'll find a way to make it there. That's how I've always looked at it. I don't think changing the qualification will help us improve. What we're able to improve is growing the sport within Australia. That's where we can start getting more kids into grassroots, focusing more on running more competitions, because at the minute, we only get three or four within Australia. There's a new comp that's started this year, so it's good to have that. I think, first and foremost, for us to get any kind of international results, we have to start building from the ground up. Like Jayden was saying, when he started, there was a lot more kids participating now, sorry, back then, than what there is now. And until we start bringing them up from a young age and really looking after them through the age of 6 to 18, and then if you can keep a good group together, then you've got a chance to perform at these higher level competitions. But the qualification itself, I don't think, will actually make any real difference to the standard of wrestling in Australia.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Even going on that, the kids that, when I started, all of them dropped off when they started being teenagers or when they started to go to work because of the fact that they need to work. It's hard to do the sport, or any type of sport, that you're not putting your 100% time in. So unfortunately in this country, unless you are already at high caliber, you can't just drop at the hat and just 100% do it once you start getting older, because you got to live. So a lot of people stop the sport, generally because they have to work.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because it's one of these sports, I know we've talked to many athletes on here, Olympians and non-Olympians, and particularly say with Olympians, you hear you're an Olympian, so you automatically assume, well, you've got a professional life, you're an Olympic athlete, and it's not quite that way, is it? And I can imagine wrestling obviously being sort of one of the lesser popular sports in Australia that sort of, Connor, as you were mentioning, things like funding and things like that. I mean, is there sort of a drive, like a recruitment drive? Is that kind of where you've got to go to build a sport up? I mean, kind of, how does wrestling Australia promote the sport? How can we get more kids into wrestling?
CONNOR EVANS: I think definitely looking at getting the skills would be a good option. If we can get the skills and just kind of generate an interest through that, it would be good. I think the other thing is just making it more widely available. As I say, within Melbourne and Sydney, there's a lot of gyms that offer wrestling as part of an MMA gym, but there's not a lot of purely wrestling clubs anymore. So I think just getting at least one or two pure wrestling clubs started up games within Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, all your capital cities, and then really looking for kids to get involved. I think if you're starting wrestling at the age of 18, 19, it's a bit harder to progress to a decent level internationally. You have to have the foundation from a young age. So me personally, getting into the schools would be a really, really good way to try and expose wrestling to a bigger bunch of kids.
BEN WATERWORTH: So you're saying me as a 34-year-old, I've missed my chance? I'm always trying to find that one sport that I can live my Olympic dream one day. So you never know.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Not everyone has to be an Olympic champion.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, well, exactly. I wouldn't care. As long as I just get the green and gold opening ceremony, I'll go out and 10-0 in 30 seconds, and I'll have to achieve my goal. I don't have to have a medal. I mean, who wants one of them? Yeah, exactly. I'm just quickly scrolling through here, and this is usually a case where I should go to our statistical analysis before the interview, but from what I can see, the last time Australia did not have a wrestler at the Olympics was in 1920 at the Antwerp Olympics. So, wow, that's 100 years ago. That's insane. Wow, that's really crazy. And going on that point, it's sort of obviously by being at Olympics, that brings that exposure, because again, it's a sport really in Australia that we don't see until it's an Olympic Games or a Commonwealth Games. So obviously, that is a disappointing step that there will not be that exposure during these Olympics. So, I mean, do we... yourself, Jayden, I'll ask you with this one, obviously, that you're so close. I mean, does that spur you on, things like that? And like, are you going to be going? Because it's only obviously three years now until the next Olympics. It's obviously one year less now. So does that... because it's closer than usual, do you continue on for that goal to go to the Olympics?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Honestly, for me, it depends on my body. My... like, my body's riddled with injuries, but it all depends on how my body will keep up in that time. I'm going to go for the next calm game, but we'll see how my body turns. But if my body is good enough, I'll certainly try again.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, yourself, kind of, you know, obviously, with all this situation and, unfortunately, not being able to go for that trials, I mean, does that, again, spur you on? Do you sort of look towards 2024 calm games next year as well?
CONNOR EVANS: Um, probably the one for me is still the Olympics. Like, it's the one... the one thing I feel like I've still achieved, like, within the realms of possibilities. Like, I'm probably not going to end up in one Olympic Games, but I feel like I'm capable of making it. And so it's just, as I tried in 2016 as well, I made the bronze medal match, so it was a couple of spots off qualification. So I know that at my best, I'm kind of there or thereabouts. And again, if I was to get a good draw, like, I feel like I could do it. But again, it's three years away, it's still, like, it seems like a long time, but since the last Olympic trial, like, even the last Commonwealth Games, it feels like it was only yesterday, sort of thing. So I'm sorry, same situation, Jayden. As long as my body's good and my head's kind of in the right space at the time, I'll probably give a crack.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's insane just to think that there's a Commonwealth Games next year to say those words. I mean, again, I'm with you. What did we do on the Gold Coast yesterday? It's absolutely crazy. I would love to know. We're going to wrap this up with some fun questions here to learn a little bit more about both of you. But one thing for us heading into Tokyo, who should we be watching out? What countries generally are the ones who are walking away with medals? And Jayden, for you, should we just not cheer for Nigerian wrestlers because they knock you out? Like, do we screw Nigeria?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, no. In fact, I'm actually going to hope my Nigerian, the guy that beat me, I actually hope he does well. Great. It's the absolute sound.
BEN WATERWORTH: What's his name? What's his name?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I actually do know what his name is, Connor. This Nigerian, he is actually, well, because of the Nigerian that was in before, in that weight, is Bebo. But Bebo retired, and now this guy come in his spot, so he was quite new, so I didn't know too much about him. Right. But I hope he actually does well, because if someone beats you, you want them to go quite well in what they're doing. You don't want to spite it. It's nothing like that.
BEN WATERWORTH: You got knocked out by the gold medallist or something like that.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, well, I did. He actually ended up winning the whole thing. So it's kind of the opposite. You kind of hope he does well, so you look, okay, I didn't do so badly kind of thing. But no, I hope he does well.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I'm looking here at the all-time medal tally. Obviously, Soviet Union, when they still existed, but outside of the US, of course, very dominant. Japan coming into a home Olympics. Russia, who are the Olympic athletes from Russia, whatever you want to call them. So should we be looking out again, the Americans, the Russians, who aren't Russians?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: The Russians are the Russians.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which, I mean, do you kind of subtly cheer for the fact that, oh, well, at least you won't hear your national anthem then because you guys dominate all the time. Small, small cross to bear then.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: What are they going to sing?
BEN WATERWORTH: I think they do the Olympic hymn. I did that at Pyeongchang. So they kind of like, which must be such an odd, like, you know, it's a complicated situation, I get it. But you've got these guys out there who maybe haven't done anything wrong representing their sort of country at the Olympics.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Especially if they really love their country, they probably want to sing their song. They're probably still singing their song.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, they have to love their country, otherwise they get sent to Siberia, right? I don't know how that generally works. We've got to wrap up with a bunch of fun questions. What this is, is obviously, as I mentioned, we're sort of a co-Canadian Australian podcast. And on the Canadian Olympic website, they like to post a fun little trivia questionnaire with some of their athletes in the lead up to an Olympic. So I've dug up one from 2016. A wrestler, I had to find a wrestler. So this is Danielle Lepage. I don't know if either of you two have come across Danielle. Obviously, different gender, but you know. Whereabouts? Whereabouts in Canada?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Montreal. Nice.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, jealous, jealous. Our co-host Colin's in Winnipeg. I just got back from living in Victoria, so it's sort of a beautiful country. Hello to all our Canadians. I know we've got a bunch listening. But so how this works, they basically get a questionnaire sent to them. They write it all down. There's a couple of drawing questions. Don't worry, guys. I'm not going to get you to draw today, but I'll just ask you each of these questions, and we'll get to learn you a little bit. Let's let's alternate. I'll let you one of you answer first and go along those ways. So we'll start with you, Connor. Who to you is the greatest Olympian of all time?
CONNOR EVANS: It's pretty hard to look past Michael Phelps. I think you look at the medal hole, he won over three, was it three games or four games?
BEN WATERWORTH: I think he technically went to four. I was in Sydney. He didn't win it. Five, so five Olympics he was at. One of them he didn't win medals at though.
CONNOR EVANS: That's it. He had that long journey. He didn't have the medals that he's won. It's really hard to look past him. And yeah, that'd be it for me.
BEN WATERWORTH: Somebody added him to like at one point on the all time medal tally. They actually added him on it, and he'd won like more medals than a lot of countries had won. Like it was ridiculous.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Oh my goodness.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Jayden yourself, greatest Olympian of all time.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I was gonna almost gonna say the same thing to be quite honest. Um, let's say something different though. Um, I'm gonna go with, I'm gonna go with a wrestler. I'm gonna go with, um, what's the Japanese girl's name, Connor? Yeah. So she's won, she's won quite a lot too.
BEN WATERWORTH: She won about two or three in a row, hasn't she?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, three every week.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, she has won championships and all that, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with her.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is she competing in Tokyo? Do you know? Like home town?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I don't think she is, is she? Nothing to be quiet.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, she's not gonna have a crowd watching her if she did, but yeah, you know, sort of one there going across that way. Look, I'll tell you one thing, I guess, I'm sure you guys are the same, and probably the one that always gets brought up in terms of, you know, the one that I obviously know a lot of, Kurt Angle, growing up watching the WM, and the fact that he obviously really did win an Olympic gold medal. And like, I never believed it. It was kind of one of these things like, oh, bullshit, you know, this is wrestling, this isn't real. And then you look it up and like, he really did win a gold medal.
CONNOR EVANS: Good for him. With a broken neck as well, apparently.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, broken neck.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, jeez, that's crazy. We'll start with you, Jayden, for this one. What was the first Olympics that you ever remember watching?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: 2000. Yeah, because I went to it when I was a kid. The archery I watched, and the gymnastics.
BEN WATERWORTH: Nice. Were you there when Simon Fairweather won the gold? Were you at that day?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I wasn't in the finals, no. But yeah, I went to like the pre, like the qualifiers. But no, that's actually quite funny. Ever since then, I was like, oh, this would be awesome to go to one day. So ever since then, that was right before I started wrestling. But yeah, that was an eye-opener when I went to those.
BEN WATERWORTH: Definitely, definitely. Connor, yourself, your first Olympics you remember watching?
CONNOR EVANS: 2000 as well. So I started wrestling in 1999. I remember just kind of vaguely watching the Olympics the year after, and also being involved in wrestling since 2004. I remember 2004 quite clearly, and obviously everyone knows from that.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's kind of one of those things where I think you remember your first one, but then it's almost like the one after when you're a bit older and you appreciate it. I remember seeing some Barcelona and a fair bit of Atlanta, sorry. But yeah, similar to what you were saying, Sydney, I mean, any kid in Australia just absolutely wrapped up in it, no matter where you were. I mean, it was just, yeah, it was a fantastic time. We'll start with you, Connor, this one. If you could be any superhero, who would you be?
CONNOR EVANS: Like, since I was a kid, I used to dress up like him. Had the kids and everything.
BEN WATERWORTH: I don't usually like to show what I'm wearing, but I'm actually wearing Batman pajamas right now. On the bottom half. So, you know, let's be honest, because I'm doing the interview in my pajamas, why wouldn't I be? So, you know, that makes sense for that.
CONNOR EVANS: I can put my socks on as well.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, look at this. We're matching. Everyone's matching. Jayden, you've got the Batman undies on, have you, or something?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Oh, I'm matching everything.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. What about yourself, Jayden? Batman as well, or somebody else?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, I like Spider-Man. Swinging between buildings.
BEN WATERWORTH: Good choice. Who wins in a battle between Spider-Man and... Or does one of you do your ACL, basically? Yeah, I see it. I see it. All right, Jayden, your favourite ice cream flavor? Chocolate. Standard choice. Good choice. Connor?
CONNOR EVANS: Strawberry.
BEN WATERWORTH: Strawberry is actually one that doesn't get answered a lot, but no, that's a good answer. Now, I was actually going to ask this question, so I sort of... I want to wait it, because I assumed it would be on this list. I can imagine that, you know, getting yourself out there for a match, you're going to pump yourself up a little bit, kind of get yourself in the zone. So this question is, if you were a baseball player, what would your War Cup music be? So, Connor, like, I mean, do you have that? If so, what is your song, kind of, when you go out there to get yourself pumped up? That's the sort of song you generally associate with that sort of, well, I don't know, take it, why not? Jayden, are you a Spice Girls man? Are you going to listen to the Spice Girls before a match?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: No, I like country kind of folk music, so probably someone from Mumford and Sons. I don't know, Connor knows that already. But probably like, you know, overweight or little linemen, something cheesy.
BEN WATERWORTH: Pump it up, yeah, that works. Okay, I like it. All right, Jayden, for yourself, the best nickname you've ever been called?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Nickname, I don't know, really nicknames, other than JJ or for wrestling type of what, I haven't really, I know, I haven't had a nickname really.
BEN WATERWORTH: You don't get to come up with like a name, you know, you can't be like The Rock or like Stone Cold Steve Jayden or something like that, you know? Not quite that, that was that disappointment on the ring day, like what's my wrestling name? What am I going to be? I'm a bad guy or a good guy? No, no, different wrestling, sorry. Put the chair away. Connor, your best nickname you've had?
CONNOR EVANS: As a kid, my nickname was Minzy. Back in Scotland, there was some... I can't even remember what the ad was, but like one of the characters in the ad was called Mad Mental Minzy. And for some reason, that's stuck with me. I've got no idea why.
BEN WATERWORTH: They're the best nicknames, aren't they, when you don't actually know why. Connor, if there was a movie made about your life, who would you be played by? Actually, maybe you can answer this both for each of you the other way around. So maybe, Connor, you answer with Jayden, and Jayden, you answer with Connor.
CONNOR EVANS: Maybe Carrot Top.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I was going to say Rupert Grint, but I like Carrot Top better.
BEN WATERWORTH: I think, Jayden, you've got to get in one back for that now.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, I'm trying to think of actors. Let's go with Jack Black. Because Connor has got to have Jack Lord traits. He plays the guitar and everything too.
BEN WATERWORTH: Nice. Oh, right. Is this something that people can look up online, Connor? You have like a Spotify, a YouTube channel here? I thought you'd get the guitar right now and sing a song, but we'll do that for next time. Again, we'll start with Jayden. If you weren't an athlete, what would you be?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Geez, I've always been an athlete. What would I be? Well, I did Canada Tweet, so I would be a Canada Mac, obviously. But yeah, I've been an athlete all my life, so that was my main focus. But I also am a full trade of cabinet making, so.
CONNOR EVANS: Great.
BEN WATERWORTH: You can make a cabinet for your trophies. That's it. That's why you do it, right? That's why you're on the side. Michael Phelps does that, doesn't he? Better start being a cabinet maker. All these bloody gold medals. Where am I going to put them? Connor, yourself?
CONNOR EVANS: If I wasn't an athlete, I'd probably be obese.
BEN WATERWORTH: That might be the best answer we've ever had in that.
CONNOR EVANS: I'm a sparky back trade, so probably still on tools, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. Okay, Connor, your guilty pleasure snack. What was that one snack that you always struggled not to eat before the weigh-in?
CONNOR EVANS: There's too many, Cairn, to be honest. Probably the biggest would be pizza.
BEN WATERWORTH: Pineapple on pizza, though. What's the answer there?
CONNOR EVANS: Good.
BEN WATERWORTH: Correct answer. Jayden, shake his head.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: What about you, Jayden?
BEN WATERWORTH: What's the guilty pleasure snack? It's not pineapple, clearly.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I love my chocolate.
BEN WATERWORTH: The chocolate?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is that particular chocolate? Like is there, you know, like are you a dairy milk man?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, dairy milk hazelnut. Ah, nice.
BEN WATERWORTH: I like it. Since I've been back, I kind of discovered this caramilk sort of craze that seems to happen over here. So it's pretty good. I like the caramilk. Your favourite song lyric, Jayden, do you have a favourite song lyric?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Well, Gone Back On The Mountain and Son's Little Line Man. I really fucked it up this time.
CONNOR EVANS: Wow.
BEN WATERWORTH: That works well on so many levels. Connor, do you have a favourite song lyric?
CONNOR EVANS: I couldn't back one, to be honest.
BEN WATERWORTH: I always find that a tricky question. It should just be because it's very specific. You say my favourite song, my favourite this. I don't know if many people just go, yeah, I love this. Jayden, you've got it ready to go. But it's interesting, sort of that one. Yeah. All right, Connor, the most recent TV show that you've binge watched.
CONNOR EVANS: There's one on Netflix called Atypical, which is pretty good. It's about a kid with autism, how he can impose about his life.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I thought you were going to say The Office, Connor, because we watched that together. Yeah, that was close. Actually, the last one I watched other than The Office was because of Netflix, Prison Break.
BEN WATERWORTH: Nice, yes. They do get out a few times, don't they?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah, nice. No, three times because of the chick at the end.
BEN WATERWORTH: Got to live up to the name of the show, I guess. Jayden, your favourite place in the world to compete?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: To compete? Ooh. Ooh, to compete. I really liked... Anywhere in Europe. I love competing in Europe.
CONNOR EVANS: Great.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor?
CONNOR EVANS: In terms of the atmosphere, it was definitely the Gold Coast. But in terms of the country that I visited, it was just a nice country, and to here, it was pretty good.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can imagine that has its benefits to compete. Yeah, it must be hard, you know, doing that. Alright, Connor, your favourite video game?
CONNOR EVANS: Right now, probably Alien Isolation.
BEN WATERWORTH: Nice, nice. Okay, Jayden?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I haven't played video games since I've had kids, but one before I had kids was obviously Call of Duty. It doesn't matter which one it was at the time, but yeah, Call of Duty for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: You'll end up playing video games again soon once I get old, right? Like, it's kind of, you know, that joy will return, I think, gradually. Jayden, your biggest fear in life? Oh, we're getting deep now.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Biggest fear in life? Oh, jeez. Ah, jeez. Biggest fear in life? Quite deep. Well, you know, you don't want any of your kids passing away or, you know, I guess that would be it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I would hope you would answer that almost.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Connor, yourself?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, kind of. I guess same deal. Take a different option, right? Rather than friends or family passing away, which is obvious. Probably growing old.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: You don't want to grow old?
CONNOR EVANS: No.
BEN WATERWORTH: Look up with Tom Cruise, find out what his secret is. I saw him on Wimbledon the other day. He's 60. I don't know how he's 60. He looks like he's 25. He's younger than me.
CONNOR EVANS: Scientology.
BEN WATERWORTH: Something going on there. Last question. All right, Connor, what can you not live without?
CONNOR EVANS: I don't know.
BEN WATERWORTH: Again, it should be answered more. I don't know why people don't answer that. It's kind of, I'll be water, food, you know, take it literal. I like the literal answers on this show. Jayden, you know, is that a literal answer?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Yeah. I would hate to have like sport in general, just because I'm kind of quite sporty and watching different types of sports as well. So like, yeah, sport itself.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it a case of, I mean, depending obviously where we are in the country, it depends on what kind of football you watch. But I mean, you know, are you an AFL and NRL guy, Jayden kind of, you know, and then with Connor, when you've come here, do you kind of get shoved on teams in these sort of respective leagues?
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: I'm a big NRL fan, West Tigers fan. Not because I'm in Sydney. I don't watch AFL at all. But Connor there, I know he does both. All right, Connor.
BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, West Tigers, not too bad. Not the worst team. Connor, who are you cheering for in the competitions then?
CONNOR EVANS: I actually watch them both, to be honest. I'll go with Storm in the rugby because I live in Melbourne. But AFL, as long as it's a good game, I'm happy to watch.
BEN WATERWORTH: So you're a Collingwood supporter then, you just don't want to admit it? Hawthorne's the answer for that one. Growing up in Tasmania, you start to hate them more, given that every time they bloody won, we had to pay them money. I was like, fuck off. No, go away. I'm not paying you a cent. Just go away there. Guys, it's been a lot of fun to chat with you today and learn a bit more about the sport. For both of you, plug yourselves. Do you have social media? Is there anything that people can follow on how things are going forward there? Plug whatever you like right now.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: Well, me and Connor actually have our own business going on. The Elite Seminars. Elite Wrestling... What do we call it, Connor?
CONNOR EVANS: Elite Wrestling Seminars.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is that just going around and teaching wrestling, talking about wrestling? What does that entail?
CONNOR EVANS: Yeah, pretty much just going around, trying to get more people exposed to the sport. So between myself and Jayden, we coach a lot of MMA gyms, so generally get people involved for that. But the seminars are open to anyone that wants to come and try it. So we're open to anyone if you've never tried it before, come have a crack. It's a bit hard right now because of the lockdowns, but as soon as we're open again, we plan on doing them all over Australia.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great. And is there a website? How can people sort of look into it if they are interested?
CONNOR EVANS: Just our Instagram and Facebook, and it's Elite Wrestling Centre in Irish. We're pretty responsive on that. So if you do want to get in touch with us, then yeah, that's the best way to do it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. Awesome. Well, I'm sure if anyone's listening, then they're intrigued to do it. They'll hit you up and get there, and you can find our future, our first ever wrestling medallist in the Olympics. You know, that's what we want, right? Guys, it has been a pleasure, Connor, for you. Obviously, thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure, and I love hearing that accent. I'm sure you get that all the time, but as somebody's caught a Scottish, it always makes me happy when I hear a good old Scottish accent to thank you. Glasgow Celtic, any other team, or am I offending? Celtic, all right, cool. All right, just want to point that out. And Jayden, for yourself, nothing wrong with your accent. It's kind of similar to mine, so I'm kind of used to it, but appreciate your time on the show, mate, and thanks for joining us as well.
JAYDEN LAWRENCE: It's been a pleasure.
CONNOR EVANS: Thanks very much.
BEN WATERWORTH: And a massive thanks to both Jayden and Connor there. A lot of fun, as I said at the very beginning, I was very excited to learn about this sport. And I think we did exactly that today, learning a little bit more about that. So thanks both to Jayden and Connor for their time, and also a big thanks to the folks over at Wrestling Australia for arranging that chat for us as well. Given, as I said at the beginning of this, and as we learned in that chat, that neither of these guys unfortunately going to Tokyo or Australia is lacking wrestling competitors for the first time since Antwerp. If my research is correct, if anybody wants to correct me on that, please feel free to. But yeah, real shame that potentially we're really not going to see any coverage of that, unfortunately, during the games on Channel 7. So if anyone from Channel 7 are listening, and I clearly know that they are clearly big listeners to the show, because we always only say kind things about the network here on Off The Podium. Please, I implore you, show wrestling at some point. It might not be something that Australian's competing in, but we still want to see it, because this is one of those sports that I think we need to be exposed to, to help out people who are maybe gonna watch the Olympics, and kids who are watching for the very first time, they see wrestling, they get it spurred into them, and then maybe, who knows, in 10, 15, 20 years time, we're gonna have an Australian medal in the sport of wrestling for the very first time. So, Channel 7, please, keep that up. We wanna see that. In the meantime, we have got some great coverage coming your way still ahead of the Tokyo Olympics. We've been teasing a lot for you in our last few episodes, and we're gonna have another interview coming your way, this time with a Tokyo Olympian, a guy who is probably right now, as we speak, already over in Tokyo. This interview was recorded a few weeks ago, but Colin sat down with five-time, soon-to-be five-time US. Olympian Abdi Abdurrahman, who is a marathon runner, has also competed in the 10,000 metres, competed way back in Sydney, in Athens, in Beijing, in London, unfortunately didn't make the team in Rio, but he's back to make the team in Tokyo. And I believe the oldest competitor for the US. Athletics team at the Olympics. So an incredible achievement here. And he's got a great story. He's got a book coming out. So Colin talks a little bit about the story in the book and sort of his amazing story and how he was able to crack the US. Olympic team in his 40s, still beating out some of these younger kids. Colin got excited in this interview because basically it gives him a bit of hope that he can still make an Olympic team maybe one day. So a fantastic chat. And we'll be our last chat with an actual Tokyo Olympian before the games, unless all of a sudden somebody decides to give us a call. One of the Campbell sisters goes, hey guys, we actually really love Off The Podium. You spur us on. Maybe a last minute interview with them. We don't know. But great last chance to hear from an athlete about to compete in Tokyo ahead of these Olympics. Then after that interview, we potentially have another interview lined up with a former Olympian. So we're just kind of ironing out the details, and hopefully that will happen before the games so we can edit before the games. But whether that happens or not, the two big ones that will happen before our daily coverage of Tokyo 2020, we have our massive preview episode of the Olympics that we are gonna bring to you. Now, of course, in the past, we did a big preview episode ahead of Pyeongchang, and our very first episode of Off The Podium back in 2016 was sort of more of an introductory episode for us, as well as looking ahead to the Rio Olympics. But we're gonna go in depth. We're gonna go through the medal prospects for Australia and Canada. We're gonna talk up where we're gonna finish. We're even gonna do our predictions of medals. I believe we did that for Gold Coast. We didn't do it for Pyeongchang. So I've already put it to Colin and to Jarrod that we're gonna come up with an accurate prediction to see who of us gets closest to predicting where both Australia and Canada end up on the medal tally. Because the AOC have come out and said, no, we are not doing a medal prediction this time around. It was too much pressure on the athletes. Well, we've said to the AOC, we'll do it for you instead. They actually haven't gotten our message yet, but we're gonna do it anyway, and we will predict that and have a lot of fun with that one. So that will drop. We're looking probably around Tuesday or Wednesday next week. And then before our first daily episode, reviewing the opening ceremony and going through everything that we love and don't love about that, we will have potentially an emergency episode, which again, sounds weird. An emergency episode is usually just an episode recorded out of the blue, but this is, we're kind of planning for it. As is expected on the eve of the Tokyo Olympics, Brisbane should be officially signed off as the host of the 2032 Olympics, which will create so many levels of history. The first time a host city has been awarded that far away from an Olympic Games, we're talking 11 years away from an Olympic Games. And of course, it will be the third time Australia would have been a host of the Olympic Games after Melbourne in 1956 and Sydney in 2000. So this is a big deal for Australia. And should it all be officially signed off, the vote given the go. Jarrod and I will sit down and we will go over what that means for Australia and everything else in between. And if Colin again, wants to come on and talk, then he's most welcome to. So stay tuned for all of that along the way. So much to cover, so exciting that the Olympics are here and we are about to get really busy and bring you some great content. If you want to stay up to date with us, of course, subscribe to the podcast, all the relevant channels, of course, Spotify, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts, you name it, we're on all of them. And of course, social media, Facebook, Twitter, and on Instagram, search Off The Podium Podcasts on Facebook and Off The Podium Pod is our username on both Twitter and Instagram. And if you use the hashtag OTP and we like it, we will read it out on there. So if you wanna get involved with us and communicate with us, that's how you do it, hashtag OTP. Big thanks to Jayden, big thanks to Connor, and a big thanks to Wrestling Australia once more. My name is Ben, this has been Off The Podium, and we'll speak to you next time.
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