Gwen Berry Interview
Get pumped an excited for another amazing interview today as we sit down with American two-time Olympic hammer thrower Gwen Berry to learn about her amazing life and career in the sport. We find out from Gwen just how she ended up throwing a hammer after initially starting off as a basketball player and just how quickly she was able to adapt to it. We also find out just why hammer throw is one of the most difficult sports in athletics, and just how much training is involved. Added to this we learn more about how she is using her platform in the fight for social justice as well as what on earth being told to ‘go left’ can ever hope to achieve in hammer throw. It’s an insightful and entertaining chat that you simply cannot miss! So get to listening!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, an Olympics podcast coming to you today for another interview episode. And what an interview we have for you today. Two-time Olympic hammer thrower from the US, Gwen Berry, talking about her career in the sport. A very interesting and unique career. Not often do you associate the sports of basketball with hammer throwing. And somehow we're going to make a segue how Gwen started off as a basketball player and ended up as a two-time Olympian in hammer throwing. I always like to go from point A to point B by doing different tangents in the middle, and you're going to find that out today. It's a fascinating chat here learning about that. We go into a bit of detail about the collegiate system in the US and whether that's a help or a hindrance when it comes to American athletes on the world stage. There's a lot of talk here, too, about Americans at the Olympics in general, finding out what it's like being a part of Team USA, a team that is almost expected to top the medal tally, and everyone's almost expected to come home with a medal. What that is like competing at an Olympic Games. And we, of course, learn a little bit more about Gwen and her fight for social justice and everything else that has come from everything that happened in the lead up to the Tokyo Olympics and afterwards, too. This is a thoroughly in-depth, insightful interview that I know you're gonna get a lot out of, and I'm very excited to bring it to you right now. Here is our chat with two-time Olympic hammer thrower, Gwen Berry.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm absolutely thrilled to be able to welcome our next guest here to Off The Podium. We spoke to Matt Denny a couple of weeks back about discus, and Matt had been involved a little bit in the sport of hammer throw before, but it's sort of focused more on discus. So we haven't really spoken to an athlete on this show about hammer throw. This is a sport that has always fascinated me. It's always a unique sport that I love to watch whenever it's an Olympic games, a world championship, Commonwealth Games, anything along those lines. And we have a guest on the show today. When you think of hammer throw, you think of one of the best in the world. She's throwing the sixth best time in the history of hammer throw. She's a world record in the sport of weight throw, which is another sport which I'm intrigued to find out about as well. A two time Olympian, a Pan American Games gold medallist and just somebody that I have been wanting to talk to for a long time on the show to learn more about her amazing career. It's a pleasure to welcome the one, the only Gwen Berry Off The Podium. Gwen, first of all, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to see you and speak to you today.
GWEN BERRY: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I'm here. So, yeah, I'm excited to be here today.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm glad that's the correct answer. You're off to a good start. We'll tick that one off the list that you got the first test right. But I mean, hammer throw is just as I said, it's a sport that's it's always fascinated me because it's one of these sports that I look at. And I'm like, why do people want to do hammer throw? It's kind of one of these ones. I was like, how how does that come into the mind? So how do you get started in hammer, Gwen?
GWEN BERRY: So what's crazy is the crazy thing about hammer throwing is absolutely no one knows about it until for us in America, until you get to college. It's not allowed in high school, not allowed in grade school. Obviously, few, few clubs have it as an option before college. But yeah, no one knows about it. So I think it's like worse than the stepchild of track and field and all of the events. I got into hammer throwing, of course, you know, being recruited into college and being a multi-athlete and then seeing it. And then, you know, my former coach, you know, he begged me to try it. And then I just got good at it in like, you know, probably like three months just because of my athleticism. And yeah, so I just kind of stuck with it. It's crazy.
BEN WATERWORTH: Why did your coach beg you sort of what were you doing at the time that kind of led to your coach going, you know, come on, Gwen, give this a go. We really want you to try this.
GWEN BERRY: So I got recruited into college as a multi-event athlete. And everybody knows in the multi-event, you have to throw the javelin and you have to throw the shot foot. So when I would practise with the throwers, you know, the coach at the time, he said, you know, you could probably be good at this event. You know, you are a bigger multi-event athlete. You probably won't lose any weight and you won't be world-class as a multi-event, but you could be world-class as a thrower. So I was just like, whatever, you know, I don't know you, so I'm not going to try this because I don't know what it is. And at the time, you know, I was, I'm always, I'm a smaller thrower, but I'm a bigger multi-event. I've always been like in between. I was a big jumper, but a small thrower. So I really didn't want to try it because all the girls were stronger than me. You know, they thrown in high school, you know, we had, you know, state medallists and state champions. And so I just tried to stay away from it. But I reminded him of a former thrower he had at a different college. So he just pressured me and pressured me. And then he talked to my high school coach. And so my high school coach sat me down and he was like, Gwen, you probably could be a world class thrower. So just try it. So I tried it and after three months, I literally almost made the Junior Olympic team throw in the hammer throw.
BEN WATERWORTH: Maybe. Yeah, it's sort of something I might be good at. So kind of going along that line, which sort of going through all these different events that you were already doing and to kind of get the ticket into college that way, was this something that sort of back when you first started this athletic career, that an Olympics was an ambition, was this kind of going through those different sports to try and see what you would be good at to maybe have that future goal of making the Olympics?
GWEN BERRY: You know, I never considered making the Olympics, only because I played basketball in high school. Like, that was my main sport. I was a really, really good basketball player. I think because of my height and because of the position I wanted to play, not a lot of schools were looking at me because even though I was a great basketball player, I wasn't like an all-star. And so, you know, I decided to do track and field and make that my primary sport because, one, it was not a team event, a team sport. And in high school, I kind of grown to hate team sports only because I felt like everyone had to be on one accord. And I knew that my passion and my dedication was different than a lot of people that I played with. So I pursued track and field. And even, you know, when I was in college doing track and field, I didn't think that I would ever be an Olympian. You know, I love to watch the Olympic games, but I just did not see that for myself. So I remember my senior year in college, throwing the hammer, I finally broke 70 metres. And my coach at the time told me, like, if you really, really stick to this, you can probably make the Olympic team. And so I graduated in 2011. The Olympic trials was, you know, the very next year. So I trained for that next year, and I was number one going into the trials, and I ended up being the team alternate for the Olympic games. So I was just like, wow, you know, I guess I see what I could probably be. I could probably be an Olympian.
BEN WATERWORTH: Kind of a quick journey and turnaround there, and all of a sudden, you're probably going back to your coach going, okay, well, yeah, you were right to pester me. I think kind of, you know, this is kind of working right now.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which I have to admit that, you know, hearing coming from a basketball background into track, I mean, again, I always love hearing Gwen kind of from athletes who come from a sport that really isn't overly related to the sport they end up going to the Olympics in. I don't think of basketball players becoming Olympic hammer throwers. It's kind of, it's a unique transition. I mean, when you first pick up that hammer and, you know, have a go at it, like, are you thinking like, well, what the hell am I doing? How did I end up shooting hoops for, you know, one point? Now, I mean, I'm throwing this thing.
GWEN BERRY: And not even that because what's crazy is I did basketball, I did track and field, and I was a jumper. So I essentially went from a basketball player, a triple jumper, into a hammer thrower. I believe I'm still the only athlete in history that has ever won a conference indoor championship in the weight throw, the shot put, and I placed fifth in the triple jump. So I was literally a multi-event athlete, like, to the core. And, you know, after a while, they didn't need to score points for the triple jump anymore, so then I just stuck to hammer throwing. But literally, my sophomore year of college, indoor, I won the shot putt, I won the weight throw, and I placed fifth in the triple jump. Crazy.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's insane. I mean, I mentioned to me before, he was talking about when we spoke to him about how, at least in an Australian perspective, it was rare for somebody to be doing a discus and hammer, and he was doing shot at the same time too. And I mean, it's just, it's crazy to kind of think kind of that on paper, maybe they kind of are related, but at the same time, I can't imagine throwing a shot and then a hammer, besides the weight of it, is even closely related. Yeah, it's just incredible to think that. Just quickly on weight throw, can you explain this to me, Gwen, because I was looking this up, and this seems like an almost very uniquely American sport. I mean, what is weight throw? How would you describe that to somebody who's never heard of it like me before?
GWEN BERRY: So the weight throw is really, really uniquely American, only because of the collegiate system. Because of the collegiate system, instead of doing hammer throw outdoors, the weight throw is an indoor event. So it is shorter and it is heavier, of course, so it doesn't go as far as a hammer would. So that, of course, you can be in an indoor facility. It's something that the collegiate system created just to generate more points, keep the throwers strong, keep them in shape, because then you will only have, honestly, the shot put it indoor. So just to give throwers another event, the collegiate system created this thing. And of course, it goes back into the Highland Games. They throw something like the weight, and so it kind of just came from that.
BEN WATERWORTH: And you are the world record holder in the sport of weight throw, which that's a pretty cool title to have that you can say, I'm a world record holder. And even if it's a sport that kind of, again, you got to explain to people, still, you're a world record holder. You can't get that taken away from you until someone breaks it.
GWEN BERRY: For sure. So I think, again, me being a smaller thrower, I am the only person that's ever broke, what, 83 feet in the weight throw at under 200 pounds. So most weight throwers are 200 pounds over. Yeah, I'm the only one that's done that. So even if it's broken, I'm sure it should be broken pretty soon. There's a lot of good girls coming up in the game. So, you know, that'll go, but they won't be under 200 pounds. So I'll keep that.
BEN WATERWORTH: You will. That's always yours there. Which, I mean, is it sort of a sport that hammer throwers are the ones that kind of are doing that? Or like, can you sort of have those multi-athletes who kind of give it a bit of a go as well?
GWEN BERRY: It's for sure for hammer throwers, just for throwers in general. I don't think any multi-athletes would ever do the weight throw. I've never seen it. So again, it's just something to keep the hammer throwers in shape so that they won't, you know, just have nothing to do indoor. Yeah, nothing to do before outdoor, sorry.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of the hammer, how heavy is a hammer that you are throwing?
GWEN BERRY: So the hammer that I throw is 8.9 pounds. That is the female's competition weight. The men's competition weight is 7 kilogram pounds, so essentially 16 pounds.
BEN WATERWORTH: And like, when you first pick one up, are you sort of surprised at the weight? Is it kind of something that you sort of just go, okay, this isn't what I was expecting? I mean, kind of, do you remember the first time you ever picked one up?
GWEN BERRY: The first time I picked up a hammer, I was just like, yeah, this is going to be hard and I really don't want to do it. Because even though it wasn't heavy, it was just the fact of throwing something that is away from your body. So you literally have this ball, then you have a string, then you have a handle. So you're literally manipulating something that is away from your body through a string. So it's the weirdest event. Hammer throwing and pole vaulting are the only two events in track and field where you are manipulating something away from your body, but you still have to manipulate the implement. So essentially, you can argue that those are the two hardest events in track and field, besides the 400 hurdles, maybe the 1500 maybe. But yeah, they're pretty technical events.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's a great way of putting that and comparing it to pole vault because that's definitely another sport where, wow, why do people do that? What do you want to run with a giant pole and kind of jump over there? But I guess on the flip side of that, it's that technical aspect and the uniqueness of it that really brings something to it. Does it take you long to fall in love with it when you kind of pick it up, you realise that this is a talent you've got, you've got a coach saying that, hey, you could go to an Olympics if you keep going that up. I mean, I can imagine with all of that on board, that you go from picking it up going, what the hell is this to? Holy crap, this is a pretty amazing sport.
GWEN BERRY: I would say for sure, like, the first thing you have to have for a sport is love. The hammer throwing, because it takes, everybody says it takes eight to ten years to even be good at the hammer throw, to even like learn how to master it. So it is a hard, long craft to master. But yeah, you definitely should love it. It's a love-hate relationship, because anything that requires skills or a repetition of skills, you know, it depends on how your body feels, depends on what your mind is feeling like. So, you know, you can be blessed in one day, and then the next day feel absolutely nothing and just have a horrible day. So it's a hate-love relationship, but for the majority of people who throw the hammer, they've been throwing it for a long time, so they've mastered the skill, so they grow to love it with anything.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of the training aspect, when you kind of switch to it, I mean, as a hammer thrower, what are the focus points you are having when you say hitting the gym and sort of outside of just obviously throwing the hammer? I mean, is it an upper body kind of strength to kind of get that power behind it? I mean, is there sort of a lot of the legwork kind of to get the spins going? I mean, kind of what is that focus that you've got to kind of work on?
GWEN BERRY: So for me, I used to be an athlete that focused on just absolute power, right? Being as strong as I can in the gym with Olympic lifting. So squatting, cleaning, benching, what have you. But, you know, as you get older, as your body changes, you can't get stale or else, you know, you begin to see negative results. So now I focus, because, you know, I've already been there, done that. So I'm strong. That's something that can go away. But the things that I focus on now, just besides raw power and raw strength, is movement, stability, contralateral core buildup. Like different things to help me be more athletic than just strong. Because you can be specifically strong in the hammer by just doing constant repetitions at heavier weights or lighter weights. But it's just about your stability, your core strength, 100 percent, because that's what's going to keep you in the game and keep you healthy in the game. So I think all aspects matter. You do have to be strong. But just as strong, you have to be mobile. Just as mobile, you have to have core strength because you're going in a rotation. You have to have foot speed. So yeah, they all kind of go hand in hand. Hammer throwing is, again, one of the other events that you have to be cross-multicultural in all types of training. So I do football training. I do cross-fit training. I do Olympic lifting. So I do band work. So I do all types of things now.
BEN WATERWORTH: And how often are you in the gym versus, say, out there throwing the hammer? Like, is it just kind of a weekly schedule that maybe in the lead up to an Olympic Games, it kind of gets ramped up? I mean, kind of what's an average week like for you when you're in that peak training mode?
GWEN BERRY: For me, an average week would be having three to two sessions a day, training five days a week. So I always have a morning session just because of me being older. I don't like to just get out of bed and then do nothing for, you know, for a full day and then practise. So I'll have a morning session where I do some movements, just some core activation, body activation, just waking up, jogging, stretching, all that good stuff. And then in the afternoon, I have a throwing session and then I follow that behind a lifting session. So, yep, usually for me, it's three to two sessions a day, five days a week.
BEN WATERWORTH: The thing that from an outside of America perspective that I love about America, among many things, Gwen, that I love about America, is that the collegiate system, when it comes to kind of how that helps you towards, you know, becoming the athletes that you become, you know, sort of the competitive nature within all the sports in the US, which I can imagine really sort of helps drive you there, because it's so vastly different to what we have here in Australia, just sort of how that works. I mean, building you up through that college system to when you were going to a US trials, becoming an alternate at the 2012 Olympics, I mean, just how helpful is that collegiate system in building you and your fellow athletes up? Because, I mean, America, the success on the world stage when it comes to the Olympics is second to none. I mean, it just, I can't imagine that that doesn't help you when it comes to those elite levels.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, I think the collegiate system does help in that perspective, but only because, like, you're gathering and you're competing against the best athletes from different systems, different colleges, so you always have that competitiveness. But the collegiate system does have its flaws, and the biggest flaw is once the kids are done, that's it. They have no support. So when you, it's the transition that kind of makes the collegiate system a hindrance, honestly, in track and field. In other sports, it may not so much, but in track and field for sure, because you're competing at this high level, high level, high level, with a lot of support, you know, money, room and board, travel, attention, health, body maintenance, you have everything, access to everything when you're a college student and a college athlete. But then, you know, you go from that to absolutely nothing if you're not at the top tier athlete and most athletes aren't. So yeah, the collegiate system is great for competitiveness, competition, and grooming, athletically. But yeah, after that, it's just like, it kind of has its sound, yeah, sort of that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is there something as part of though that, you know, you come out of that system, obviously go on to a couple of Olympics and got to have that success. Are you able to, in a way, bring that back then on a level for some of those people who maybe don't quite go on to that to, I don't know, give some advice or kind of, is there anything that you can do in that your position to help them?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, for sure. I feel like there's a lot I can do in my position, but there's not a lot of resource out there for as many athletes go into the collegiate system and the athletic system. There's not enough support and resources for those who come out of that same system. And that's why you see depression, mental health issues. That's why you see a lot of the great athletes, especially collegiate athletes, probably do one year after they're done or graduated and then you never see or hear from them again. It's just not a lot of support, mentorship or resources in that transition phase. And honestly, here in America, the support and the money in track and field is non-existent compared to other sports. We have so many high level sports. And of course, we have Hollywood. So people are not trying to invest in track and field here in America.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which again is such a unique thing to hear because again, from an outside American's perspective, we look at America as such a dominant force. And in track and field, we see the results come out there. But obviously, it's not as glamorous and as big potentially there domestically as we're perceiving it is to be.
GWEN BERRY: I feel like, again, there's pros and cons to every system. But to the American system, athletes here, especially field athletes, they're not getting paid for what they're worth. I saw somewhere on Wikipedia and Google that I was worth $5 million, and I've been looking for it ever since. You would think that I would be worth $5 million because of my achievements and because of everything I've accomplished. And that's where they get the number from. But honestly, I don't make even $50,000 a year. And maybe not even that, because I'm a hammer thrower. So yeah, it's different.
BEN WATERWORTH: On that, in terms of the competitiveness in hammer throw, particularly, you know, you're mentioning you become an alternate for the 2012 team. I mean, kind of what was sort of the competitive level like there? I mean, obviously, the college system is very competitive as it is, but I mean, kind of what were the top girls throwing around about that time? Were you sort of coming through with a boom for hammer throw? I mean, kind of what was hammer throw like in the US at that point?
GWEN BERRY: In 2012, the hammer throw was really stacked still. We still had five to six girls that were throwing over 70 metres. But that year, it really only took, I want to say, 72 metres to make the 2012 Olympic team. 71, 72 metres at the time. So, you know, hammer throwing wasn't as crazy as it is in America today. But yeah, it was the start of the boom for sure for us.
BEN WATERWORTH: Being an alternate for an Olympics, you never want to see your teammates fail or get injured or that. But I mean, is there a bit of you, Gwen, where you're kind of like, come on, like, I've got a chance here. Like, oh, if a sneaky little injury comes along here, I maybe won't be too disappointed.
GWEN BERRY: And only because I was young, you know, eager, and I wanted it so badly. What's crazy is I was the team alternate and one of the girls that actually made the team, she did have a sore ankle. She had injured her ankle leading up to the Olympic Games. And so, you know, the word on the street was she didn't know if she was going to compete or not. So I was just like, you know, a little part of me was like, you know, if you don't want to, because you've been to so many, I could always say, you know, I stayed in shape. You know, I trained until after the Olympics, and then I took a break. But yeah, well, you know, it was a little part of me that really, really wanted to go, especially to London. But I was just happy that, you know, I was the ultimate. You know, I never even thought that I could make it that far. And even though for me, looking back on hindsight, I should have been on the scene. But yeah, it was a good experience, nonetheless.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because I can imagine then that spurs you on more so for Rio, doesn't it? That you've kind of you've really gotten so close, you know, even the potential heir of sort of her pulling out just before the game. So kind of do you take that experience of being that close in and just able to kind of put it then into using that effort to qualify for then 2016?
GWEN BERRY: Absolutely. After I got so close in 2012, you know, that was that was it. So I put my head down. I got three jobs and, you know, I trained, worked, trained, worked, trained, worked. That was my life until 2016.
BEN WATERWORTH: And what's that like then at your jobs when you sort of got to explain, I've got to go train and I'm just, you know, hammer throw. And then eventually, when you eventually make the team and... Hi, can I have some time off? Yeah, just got to go compete at the Olympics for a couple of weeks. I mean, I can imagine that's a fun little question to ask your boss.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, what was crazy is, you know, again, here in America, everybody thinks it's all glamorous and all of that. But again, the lack of support, especially for athletes under the Olympic umbrella is nil to none. And so I was working three jobs at the time. So I was delivering cookies. I was working at the bookstore. I was working at GNC, which is a supplement store. I was working at Digs, Sweat, and Goods. So I was trying to find anything that I could do to, one, keep a roof over my head, take care of my family, take care of myself, and make sure I eat so that I am able to train. So my days just consisted of me training in the morning, me working all through the night. If I made cookies, I would literally get off at 3 o'clock in the morning. And then try to be up by 11 o'clock the next day to go to practice. So it was kind of hard. So my bosses and the people that I worked with, they were really understanding because they knew what I was training for. And I always showed up to work on time. I always did my job, even if I was tired, even if I wasn't the best employee of the day, I still showed up, I still did my job. So anytime I did need to take off to go to competitions or to compete for the Olympic Games or Olympic trials, they were supportive, they were really supportive, and I appreciate that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which I can then imagine when you throw that qualifying distance and you know you've booked your ticket for Rio, that just makes it even more worth it, doesn't it? That you've gone through all of that to finally achieve that dream.
GWEN BERRY: For sure. So after I made the Olympic team in 2016, I went back to work, right? So I qualified, and then I went back to work just for a few days, and then my boss was like, okay, well, you should take some time off. And I was just like, yeah, you know, I just have to come up here and talk to you about trying to take this month off so I can really focus on training for Rio. So they were okay with that.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's good to hear. I'm glad. It would be a bit awkward if they all of a sudden said, yeah, no, we really can't spare you, Gwen. We really kind of need you. You might have put that off for another four years. Okay. Just the Olympics. But can you take any moment to yourself to kind of just, I don't know, pinch yourself, kind of take that moment? I mean, does it come when you get the uniform and you've got the rings on it, you know, kind of like, any moment there and all of a sudden it just clicks into gear that you are an Olympian?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, in 2016 especially, because, you know, that was my first Olympic Games. I got second place at the trials. So I was really happy about that. I had a great performance. And, you know, when I put on the uniform, we went to team processing in Houston. It was an amazing experience. We got so much gear. We got so much attention, so much love, media, all that good stuff. We got verified on all of our social media platforms.
BEN WATERWORTH: The blue tick.
GWEN BERRY: You know all, right. You got the blue check, which everybody loves. And so that was a great experience. It really didn't come to me until when we actually touched down to Rio, that I was actually going to compete in my first Olympic game. You know, going through the training process and the training camps and all of that. That's when it hit me, and it was just like, all right, here we go. So before, you know, I was just riding the high of actually making it, and then, you know, getting all the gear and stuff like that. You know, giving some of my family and friends. And then, yeah, it got really real when we got to Rio.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'd love to know what it's like going into an Olympics in an American team, because in Australia, it's usually a case of you go into an Olympics, you know, you got your medal hopes, and then before Tokyo, there would always be a prediction. The Australian Olympic Committee would be like, OK, we're going to get 12 gold, five silver, eight bronze. And then all of a sudden, they're just going to be like, yeah, we failed, and there's always a big talking point in the media afterwards. But for the US, to me, it's more of a case of, we're going to win eight gold, 12 silver, seven bronze on Thursday. Like, it's just kind of like, that's kind of how it sort of goes. What are the expectations of the US going to an Olympics? Is it we're going to become on top of the medal tally? I mean, like, what is that like to compete for American Olympics and know that that's going to be the success that's going to come from the Games?
GWEN BERRY: I think because America always goes into everything they do with the, we're the greatest country in the world. I feel like they put no limit on account, right? So there's no limit on how many medals that one can achieve. There's no limit. Like, they really don't tally. Of course, they have their, you know, their guesstimates in their head. But because America is filled with so many stars and so many millionaire athletes, and so, you know, it's just like the press and, you know, all of these iconic athletes. The real, the biggest expectation is to just do what you do. Like, you know, just go in there and do what you're capable of, because, you know, America is the hardest thing to make when it comes to Olympic Games in most sports. So especially track and field, it is definitely the hardest thing to make. So, yeah, I feel like the expectations aren't in your face, but they definitely put the emphasis on do what you do, do what you did to make the team. If you do what you did to make the team, then you'll definitely, you know, bring home some hardware. That's just how it is. And because America is so individualized, it's not really a team, right? Because for track and field, again, there's so many stars, there's so many big players, and there's so many camps. So everybody who makes the team are coming from different camps. And so, you know, it's not team oriented in my perspective. It's just, you know, everybody's about their business. Everybody's doing what they have to do to get the job done.
BEN WATERWORTH: But when you're in the village and you kind of all of a sudden are bumping into, you know, your fellow competitors or maybe when you're at the opening ceremony and you're kind of all around there, do you, I mean, getting that opportunity maybe to just rub shoulders with somebody like, hey, like, what sport do you do? Oh, great, you know, and kind of have those conversations. I mean, that must be a fun part of an Olympics too, to meet these athletes that maybe you will never get to associate with.
GWEN BERRY: Oh, yeah, for sure, especially, especially for Team America. Like, I think that was one of the highlights of the Tokyo, sorry, the Rio Games for me was the overall experience in opening ceremony because that's when we all had to be together. We all had to sit together. We all had to march together. So that's when I met so many cool, iconic athletes. Parisha Shields, I met all the basketball players. They were really cool to hang out with, especially Kyrie Irvin. Of course, my favourite, Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant. So that was a great moment. Yeah, for me, that was one of the highlights, for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: I love sort of hearing kind of those moments of sort of, yeah, that and kind of like even just hearing from people around the village, like you're walking around and like, oh, look, there's the same bolt there is. It's just eating like things like that. Like, I mean, it's just it's such a unique experience. But I mean, just again, like as you're saying, they're like in the American team alone, like, hey, there's Kevin Durant, there's Kyrie Irving, Simone Biles. There they are. Just part of my team, my teammates.
GWEN BERRY: And like, you really don't want to be starstruck because you're like, for me, I'm my favourite athlete, right? So I never want to be starstruck about another athlete just because they make more money than me, because I know that I'm just as great as them in my respective sport or event. So it's just like, you know, you see them, you're just like, oh, there they are. And what you like, but I'm an Olympian too, so they should know who I am. It's kind of like that thing. But usually they're pretty cool. Most of those stars are really, really cool. Like, you would never think because, you know, you see them on TV or, you know, they just have such a high profile, especially in Hollywood and here in America. But most of them are really, really down to earth.
BEN WATERWORTH: Going into Rio, did you set yourself a target? Was it a medal? Make the final kind of, I mean, what was sort of your target? And leaving Rio, kind of, how did you feel about how everything went?
GWEN BERRY: Um, that's a trick question only because I'm thinking of how I felt at the game. And then I'm thinking of hindsight, right? How I should have been coached or how I should have felt. Um, so in that moment in Rio, you know, my coach at the time put in my head that the biggest thing was to make it to the finals, right? Um, just, I didn't like how he did it, but he put it in our heads that both athletes never make it to the finals, their first Olympic Games or their first major championship appearance, right? So that was, it was heavy, heavy emphasis on just make the finals, just make the finals, just make the finals. Going into Rio, I had one of the top marks in the world at the time. So for me, it shouldn't have been so much heavy emphasis. Now I'm looking at how I feel now as an adult. Um, it shouldn't have been just so much heavy emphasis or, you know, just, you know, a target on making the finals. I should have, and we should have been more optimistic. I should have been coached more optimistically and more positively, I think. And, um, yeah, I didn't do that. So that was a bummer. I was actually with two spots out. Well, that was crazy.
BEN WATERWORTH: I was going to say, I mean, it's always, it's a sport of inches, isn't it? I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's kind of that close to making a final. And it's so fascinating in any of the throwing or the jumping, any of the sort of the field events, really, when it is literally measured by inches, it kind of, you know, one day you're throwing a distance set on, another day would have gotten you a gold medal, yet all of a sudden now, it's like, well, that same distance has missed me out by, you know, a couple of centimetres from making an Olympic final.
GWEN BERRY: Absolutely, absolutely. The Olympic Games is, the Olympic Games World Championships, those types of competitions are something that people really, really don't, they have no idea what they're getting into until they're in that moment. Like, you can't change for that moment. It really comes with experience. And that's another thing, that's another flaw from the collegiate system and to, let's say, your system to where kids from Australia, if they're doing hammer throw, they get the World Championship Olympic experience quite often because they don't have to compete against a thousand other kids who are just as good as them. You know, you're going to make World Junior teams, if you have a certain mark, you're going to make an Olympic Games, you're going to make a World Championship. So they always get that experience so that when they are, you know, 25, 26, they've had the experience time and time again to where they're potentially meddling at that age. For America, because of the collegiate system, you want to get the opportunity maybe once or twice. And the collegiate system is nothing like, you know, World Championships and Olympic Games, so qualifying, the call rooms, it's nothing like it. So, you know, for me, making my first Olympic Games team, I've never had the experience ever in my life, and nothing could duplicate it, nothing could prepare me for it. But just getting out there and getting in that moment and, you know, trying my best to capitalize and execute in that moment.
BEN WATERWORTH: So with that experience and in mind, leaving Rio, kind of going through to the next Olympics, was that kind of then taking that experience and that helped you towards the next major competitions throughout the next four or ultimately five years, you know, the World Championships, the Pan Am Games that you were going to win a gold at? I mean, that helped you kind of more so in the competition the more you went on?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, I think that in changing coaching.
BEN WATERWORTH: That usually helps sometimes.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, I just had to change my coaching because, you know, the older I got, my mindset changed, and I knew I just needed something different. Like I said, in hindsight, going into 2020, 2016, 2017, when I was making these Olympic World Championship teams back to back to back to back, I feel like the major thing that I liked was mental and technical coaching. My coach at the time was just heavy on strength, and that ain't gonna get you a medal, and that ain't gonna get you to finals. So besides the experience and besides the constant failures, I just had to switch up my mentality and switch up my culture.
BEN WATERWORTH: And how important is that mentality when it comes to hammer throwing? Just the mental aspect of getting yourself in a zone, that you are getting past everything that you're leaning up to it. I mean, are there certain activities that you can do on the mental side of things, Gwen, to really kind of focus on that and switch it on when it comes to a competition?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, I think the mental side is probably 97% of competition. The body is easy. You can build up the body. You can, you know, the body can be mundane. You can do repetitions, redundancy, time and time and time and time again. It's easy for the body to feel something and to keep that stored in them in itself after repetition. But the mind is the hardest thing. If you do not have a sound mind, if you're not able to focus, if you're not able to control your adrenaline or control your environment or control how you respond to things, in an intense moment or in an overwhelming moment, it will get the best of you. And honestly, that is still something that I am working towards till this day, only because I came from a system where the mindset was literally not even focused on, to a system where the mindset is literally 95% of what I need to work on. So that's the biggest thing. And I feel like a lot of people don't understand that or know that, but when you become elite, yeah, your body is used to doing it, right? So it's just like the biggest thing that people, especially in this world, we are not taught how to control our mind, how to respect our mind, how to evolve our mind. And yeah, that's one of my biggest Achilles' heels. And for major elite athletes, that's the thing that separates the people who medal from the people who don't.
BEN WATERWORTH: Coming to Tokyo, obviously, the games are delayed by a year. Now, I believe obviously it affects athletes on all many different levels. But I believe ultimately it was a really tricky decision for you, Gwen, to kind of continue on after the postponement of the game. Sort of what sort of led to your ultimate decision to go back to qualify for an Olympic Games, and how close were you for maybe not going to qualify for 2021?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, it was a lot of things that kind of swayed me not to continue with the sport. As everybody knows, I protested in 2019 at the Pan American Games, and I immediately lost all my support, my financial stability, and I became America's most wanted, right? So just the hate, the lack of support, the immediate drop of funding made me want to quit the sport, because here I am in Hamlet, I already don't make even $50,000 a year. How can I continue to even sustain in the sport if I'm not getting paid for what I'm worth, what I sacrificed, my time? And I felt at the time there were more important issues in this world to come back besides throwing the ball, right? Because I knew that every time I picked up the ball and I was practising to throw this ball as far as I could, somebody was dying in the streets at the hands of a cop. A cop who didn't care about their lives. Or by the system who didn't want to seek or care to seek justice because they felt like because of the colour of their skin, their lives didn't matter. So I felt like 2019, there were more important things than sports. Same thing with 2020. You know, after the postponement of the Olympic Games, again, we were seeing so many deaths. The world turned upside down because of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, and they'd be starting to begin to pay attention to real issues. So again, I was just like, so then why am I doing this again? Like being an athlete isn't changing anything on the ground. You know, it's not changing any type of system. It's not changing any type of laws. It's not protecting anybody's eyes. So that was a major thing that made me not want to continue with the sport. Already being severely underpaid, sacrificing so much time for my family and my son, who could have been, you know, a George Floyd, because he does not look like a teenage boy. He does look like a grown man, and the cop would not care about his life more than I would. So yeah, it was really hard. I combatted it a long time. Me and my coach, we talked about a lot. We had a lot of intense conversations. I talked to my friends a lot. I talked to my family a lot. Just about me wanting to continue to do this. Being in the position that I was. Being underpaid. Being away from home. Seeing more and more of the trauma that is going on in the world. And nobody doing enough about it. The thing that kept me in the sport was a heavy talk with my mentor, Dr. John Carlos. Everybody knows him as one of the athletes who protested at the Mexico CCA Games with Tommy Smith. So Dr. John Carlos, he became my mentor in late 2019, early 2020. And so we talked a lot, did a lot of projects together. You know, worked with a lot of companies together to combat social justice and civil rights. And so I talked to him about whether I should continue to train for the Olympic Games and for 2021. And he gave me some great advice. And he told me that, you know, even though my, what I'm doing with the sport was not, to me, not saving lives as much as I wanted to see it, I did for sure have impact on a lot of people because of my platform, because of the things I've done, because of the things I've said. So he told me that maintaining that platform was important because if you're high enough, you're visible, so everybody can see you. If you're low enough, not enough people can see you and not enough people can hear you. So that ultimately kept me in this sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which through everything that happened with all of that, I mean, I can imagine that it would take one message from somebody who goes, thank you, Gwen, thank you for taking a stand, thank you for doing that, to just bring everything that you did with that to light. But I'm sure you got more than one message, Gwen. I'm not saying you only got one. So with every message that you would have received as support, I mean, kind of, I can imagine that turns around all those negative thoughts and kind of goes, well, I'm going to use this positive energy and go towards that Olympic platform and not only do my best in my athletic side of things, but do that best for my social side of things as well.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, for sure. I think the constant support. And then, you know, I began to get a little support financially, which was, you know, a breath of fresh air. I think, you know, being crowded and being loved by a family and a group of people who I knew would have my back, no matter what happened to me in or out of the sport, no matter if I won a gold or if I didn't even make an Olympic team. That gave me the sense to say, OK, I can't do this because these people actually love me whether I win or fail. And that's kind of all I needed.
BEN WATERWORTH: Tokyo comes about, make the final this time around, finish in 11th. Again, similar question before was sort of, you know, with the new coach, kind of the mindset is a different goal. I mean, do you leave Tokyo? I made the final, that's great. Or was there kind of a level of, hey, I could have walked away with a medal here and, you know, sort of what was the mindset leaving Tokyo after the competition?
GWEN BERRY: Um, I really didn't get to process too much. Again, I'm thinking of the hindsight because of everything that kind of happened in the Olympic Village. So I really didn't get to process anything that happened in Tokyo because, you know, a good friend of mine, her mother passed as soon as she won an Olympic medal, Raven Saunders. I know the world knew about that. So, you know, I admittedly, I didn't even care about the Olympic Games until probably like a little week ago or how I performed because, you know, being there for her was more important at the time. And so now I'm processing the Olympic Games. When I finally got to process everything that happened, for sure, I was upset. Like, you know, I really, really won the medal. I knew I had more in me. But honestly, I was tired. I was exhausted in Tokyo. Only because of everything that I had to fight and everything that I had to endure leading up to Tokyo, I knew that, you know, I burned out. I burned a lot of gas. And just making the team was enough. And then everything that came with making the team and how the media attacked me, you know, from me being set up, you know, a lot of things that happened, it was quite exhausting. And so even though I made the finals and I was glad that everybody was able to watch that, you know, not making the podium, it was, I was kind of, I was frustrated. You know, I think about it every day and I say, I still say, damn, or I say like, fuck, because like I really, really knew that I could do it. But I knew that, you know, I exhausted myself.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I was going to say, you know, again, we're obviously talking very recently after it, so it's still obviously fresh in the mind. You know, with everything that you can now, I guess, push forward and hope to achieve with, I guess, this platform now that has been created for you, do you feel this is something that maybe in 10, 15 years time, and this is not to say that you don't go into Paris and win the gold, you know, LA win the gold, but like something that say they don't happen, that you can reflect and go, well, I'm an Olympic finalist. That can never get taken away from me. And all the good that can come from this, from the platform that, again, as I said, has been out there, that it will be something you can look back and be proud of.
GWEN BERRY: Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, I'm proud of everything that I achieved. I'm proud that, you know, because people didn't even think that I would be able to focus to make the Olympic team because of everything that I was doing with my social injustice. All the messages I was putting out there for athletes and for non athletes and, you know, just using my platform to make sure that I let people know that they are not alone in this fight. So people didn't even want me to make the Olympic team. And so and then, you know, the whole world got to watch me make an Olympic final. So and then for the finals, you know, it was during a time, it was a five o'clock in the morning. So not everybody got to watch. So but, you know, just the fact that people got to make me watch me compete, my family got to watch me compete. I feel like I did my part. Anytime I showed up on that screen or anytime I was talked about, they were talking about what I wanted to do to save people's lives. And that was important. Me just being there and people just really, really putting emphasis on my passions to protect and to save people's lives. That was important. That was the goal.
BEN WATERWORTH: Before we wrap up, we will change tack in a moment and get to some fun questions to close it out. Just on that, what's your hope now, Gwen? What are you hoping to be able to achieve with what you were just mentioning there? What are the steps you're going to be taking moving forward with everything that you're obviously discussing and standing for?
GWEN BERRY: I don't want to put up too much, but I am currently working on a few projects. And ultimately, I want to create some stuff to where I can go to these corporations, and I can go to these people who say they want to help support Black and Brown communities and actually facilitate so that we can actually see change. Because I feel like being an elite athlete or being, you know, one of the best athletes in the world is not enough because we have a lot of those. I feel like now we need to leverage, right? We need to change laws. We need to work with people who are social activists who are on the ground and are really affecting people's lives and collaborate. So that's what I plan on doing. I'm back in school getting my masters at Tennessee State University. So Coach Sheesbrough gave me a chance and opportunity to get some more education so that I can start doing what I want to do and really, really saving people's lives and us seeing proof of it.
BEN WATERWORTH: So watch this space basically, you're saying. Keep an eye out to see all this stuff that's coming.
GWEN BERRY: For sure, for sure, for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: One thing too before I get to the questions that I loved reading, I believe before each competition, you write a letter to yourself to read between throws. Tell us a little bit more about this, because I love the idea of this.
GWEN BERRY: So basically, because I'm actually an over thinker, right? I over analyse, I over think. Again, that's one of my killing skills because the mind is so important in competition. And for me, I'm not comfortable with like, you know, just let go and throw, right? You know, I like to think. So in competition, I usually write a letter to myself to just like give myself just some cues and some encouragement so that I'm thinking of nothing else but those cues or those points of encouragement. For me, it's just something that settles my mind because you give me an opportunity. I'm going to think of a thousand things before I think of one. So that just gives me the opportunity to just think of one or two things instead of the thousand that my brain often likes to go to.
BEN WATERWORTH: What's the best thing you've ever written yourself then that that's literally you've looked at halfway through and gone, oh, shit, that's brilliant. I'm really good at that. This is going to help me now for next throw.
GWEN BERRY: Honestly, the best thing that I've ever wrote to myself was remembering who I am. Remember who you are because I know if I do that, can't nobody beat me. Nobody can beat me if I know who I am and if I execute and have confidence in myself.
BEN WATERWORTH: I really like this trend that we're seeing now with field athletes because we saw it with our Australian high jumper Nicola McDermott. She won the silver and between every throw, every jump, I should say, she would sit down and write in a diary. That's what she would do. And it was incredible. And like everyone in Australia was fixated by like, what is she doing? This is amazing. So there's a secret here I'm seeing, Gwen, that field athletes need to just write in diaries, write notes to themselves and everything along those lines. And it obviously helps you out a lot.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, for sure. Because again, it's just, it's the situation, it's the pressure. You want to do something so bad, right? You want to win, you want to achieve so bad. But instead of thinking of just that, you have to think about the process or the steps or how you felt or, you know, what you should just focus on. And then the rest will take care of itself. And I feel like, you know, that's kind of why I failed in Tokyo, because, you know, I was so excited that, you know, I made it to the finals. But I just didn't, I wasn't disciplined enough to make sure that my mind didn't want it so bad, because I wanted it so badly. I wanted to get on the podium and I wanted to show the IOC what's up. I wanted to piss people off because the world hated me anyway. You know, I wanted to do all these things, and I forgot to think about the process or the feeling or just a few things to do and let the rest take care of itself. So what I thought she did was brilliant. You know, she thought about the process, she wrote down how she felt, she wrote down what she needed to work on, and then she just got through it. So that's just a great technique. It's something that really, really helps the mind. Again, the mind, the mind, the mind, the mind.
BEN WATERWORTH: It made me want to start writing diaries more. I may have gone down to the local store and bought myself a diary and gone, well, you got me. Maybe I need to do that in between interviews here on the show. Like, do you, Ben, learn how to ask better questions? Something on those lines. Now, Gwen, we close out every interview, a series of fun questions, to end it on a lighter note. Now, we're a co-Australian-Canadian podcast, and we get these questions from a Canadian questionnaire that they asked their athletes ahead of Rio and Pyeongchang. Kind of a bit of a get-to-know-you. Now, I always like to try and get an athlete from the same sport. Unfortunately, Canada does not have a hammer throw questionnaire on here, so I've had to go with a javelin thrower. So it's the closest I could get. So, sort of related. But, and again, as always, there is a drawing. Like, if you want to do some extra homework, you can draw some pictures. If you really want to, no pressure, you don't have to. It's not a requirement. But if you do want to add that, the first question I have for you here today, Gwen, what is your favourite ever Olympic moment?
GWEN BERRY: My favourite ever Olympic moment?
BEN WATERWORTH: You can say your own too. You can always mention any of your own Olympic achievements as well.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, I would have to. I can only speak for my own. Honestly, I would say being clutch. I've never been clutch before, and I made the Olympic final on my last throw. I was top ten going into the final. I never did that before. So yeah, I think that was my favourite moment.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great answer. I like it. If you could choose any Olympic host city, where would it be?
GWEN BERRY: Of course, Africa. Come on, the motherland. It's never been to Africa before.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, never.
GWEN BERRY: Exactly. And so that's a big problem. We need to get that together. Of course, Africa.
BEN WATERWORTH: Any particular part of Africa that you think would be good, or maybe just have a continental bit, kind of just share all the events around the entire continent?
GWEN BERRY: You know, I think the continent is too big for that. However, it doesn't matter. Wherever we can have it, it needs to be done.
BEN WATERWORTH: I remember when Rio won the Olympics, their big pushing point was they had that map of the world, and they showed where all the Olympics had been, and it was like South America, none. So now Africa is the only one without it. So yeah, good marketing point there. In your spare time, what do you most like to do?
GWEN BERRY: Oh, honestly, I like to joke on Twitter. I like to joke on Twitter. I love Twitter. It's one of my favourite social media platforms, only because anytime I go on there, I know I'm going to laugh at something. You know, the world is a crazy place, but Twitter, you can always find something that brings you a little bit of joy.
BEN WATERWORTH: I like that answer. What is the weirdest instruction, a coach ever gave you?
GWEN BERRY: The weirdest instruction a coach has ever gave me? I don't know. I don't know. To me, I would say my old coach used to always tell me to, he used to tell me a cue, right? And the cue was always like, go left. But he never explained what that meant, never explained what the purpose was, never explained really how to do it. He would just be like, go left, and he would think that people would know what that meant. And I'd just be like, logically, bro, what are you talking about? So that's the one that I heard a lot. I don't know if it was the weirdest I've ever heard, but I've heard that so many times, and I begin to hate that, like, go get left.
BEN WATERWORTH: What does that mean?
GWEN BERRY: What are you talking about? What are you talking about?
BEN WATERWORTH: Did anyone not have the courage to go, hey, coach, go left. What do you mean?
GWEN BERRY: Oh, yeah, but he couldn't explain it because he wasn't a hammer thrower. So, you know how that goes. And that's why I had to get a new coach.
BEN WATERWORTH: I would assume that in the sport of hammer throw, yeah, go left is a bit vague. You know, you kind of go left, you go right, you go left, you're going around in circles, like it's not like you're going in one direction.
GWEN BERRY: Exactly, go left. I'm like, OK. Go left.
BEN WATERWORTH: Interesting. What is your favourite workout?
GWEN BERRY: Oh, I think my favourite workout is my morning workout. Sorry, my morning routine. So, a nice little run followed by some stretching, a little bit of yoga. I love my morning routine.
BEN WATERWORTH: Sounds good to me. That's a good way to start the day. If you could have lunch with any one person, who would it be?
GWEN BERRY: If I can have lunch with any one person, I think I would want to have lunch with, I would say, a younger Muhammad Ali. Like in his glory days, when he was...
BEN WATERWORTH: Cassius Clay days, maybe.
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, when he was full of spark and spunk. Just to pick his mind, just to understand his charisma, his go-getter mentality, because he was really unapologetic, so I love that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great answer. I like that one. What is your favourite sandwich?
GWEN BERRY: No, I don't eat sandwiches because I don't like bread. I would say my favourite wrap will be a grilled chicken wrap.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, I like that. I like that at all. If you could have any superpower, what would it be?
GWEN BERRY: Oh, this is a hard one. Any superpower? If I had any superpower, I don't know. I would want to have all the powers because I would want to change the world. I would want to change how people think about the world, how we view the world, how we live in the world, you know, just the money and hunger and all of that. I would want to just change everything, to where everybody has everything that they need and all we got to do is chill. We don't have to live our lives working and struggling and paying bills. Whatever power that would be, right? Going left. Whatever power that would be to make sure the world is truly, truly equal. Literally everybody in this world has the same, everybody in this world. Yeah, I would do that.
BEN WATERWORTH: These are the deepest answers I think we've ever gotten on this show, Gwen. Jeez, this is great. I'm loving it. I want to kind of see the deep answer for this one. The best candy in the world is?
GWEN BERRY: Are you serious?
BEN WATERWORTH: Didn't even hesitate. Straight away. None at all. Straight to it. As a kid, who were your favourite sports team?
GWEN BERRY: As a kid, for sure the Bulls. Of course, because my father loved the Lakers, I was forced to like them. And not as a kid, but as a young adult, the Boston Celtics for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, you were spread all out there. You got all the bases covered. Did you stick to one? Have you still got one today that you just stick with?
GWEN BERRY: Wherever Kevin Durant goes, that's where I go.
BEN WATERWORTH: All right. So you're on the net spam wagon right now.
GWEN BERRY: I'm on the net.
BEN WATERWORTH: Just got Paddy Mills. Paddy Mills, you can have an Australian join the team. There you're welcome. Bronze medallist. You're welcome. You look after him, please. Your favourite sports movie is?
GWEN BERRY: I really don't have one of those. I would say this because it was popular. Of course, you know, I remember the Titans or something like that, but I really don't like to watch sports movies because, again, I'm my favourite athlete. Yeah, that's it.
BEN WATERWORTH: When they do a movie on you, Gwen, then you can watch your movie, right?
GWEN BERRY: Yeah, yeah. I would probably watch it one time and then...
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, that's it. That's enough. I know the story. I don't need to keep removing it. If you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?
GWEN BERRY: Africa, somewhere. Somewhere that's never been discovered. It's about myself, me and my kids, and my family. And yeah, I want to move. I want to live somewhere that's never been discovered.
BEN WATERWORTH: Ken, it's a deep answer to you, Gwen. Geez, come back everywhere. There's a thousand more questions here. It's like I'm fascinated by everything you say. When you were little, I love this question. When you were little, what was one thing you always thought?
GWEN BERRY: When I was little, one thing I always thought, I always thought about eating. Man, when I was little, I used to eat my ass off. I used to always think about food.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's a perfect answer. I love it. It's always like, Mum, when's dinner ready? Come on. It's always the same question, isn't it?
GWEN BERRY: That's all I thought about.
BEN WATERWORTH: And it always feels like, even if you've got a set time every night for dinner, it seems to get longer and longer. You get home from school, it's like, what, three o'clock, and you're like, dinner's not until six. Like, God, I'm going to die, aren't I? It's always that way, living around the mills. Now, this is the last one, and I always am intrigued for this one, because I don't know, sometimes people just have this ready to go, and other times you don't. What is your favourite joke to tell?
GWEN BERRY: Oh, I don't tell jokes. I really don't tell jokes. I'm petty. You know, I'm real, I'm a petty person. Like, I like to say slick, smart stuff, especially on Twitter. But I really don't tell jokes.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, this is the part now where I say, Gwen, what's your Twitter handle? What's your Instagram handle? Where can people follow and see the entertainment that you can get from following you on Twitter?
GWEN BERRY: So people can follow me at MsBerryThrows, MZBerryThrows. It's on all my platforms, so Instagram, Twitter. Those are my tools. So yeah, follow me, MZBerryThrows.
BEN WATERWORTH: That simple. Gwen, I have to say, it's been an absolute pleasure to learn about your journey, everything you're fighting for out there. And as I said at the end, some of the best, no, not some of the best answers, I think we've ever gotten in those questions right at the end. But best of luck with everything moving forward. We're going to keep an eye on you very closely, whether that's Paris 2024 or everything else that you're fighting for. I'm just saying as well, 11 years away from an Olympics in Australia. So if you've never been here before, you've got a perfect excuse. 11 years time.
GWEN BERRY: I think about it. I think about it.
BEN WATERWORTH: And a massive thanks there to Gwen for her time. I'm just thinking about going left now. What can I say? I don't even know where to begin. It doesn't make sense, but somehow it's something that I wanna keep saying in my life. So maybe that's our new closing for this episode, or this show, I should say, it's go left. So we'll try using that, we'll see how that sticks. Big thanks to Gwen, obviously. Pleasure to have her on the show, and we thank her very much for her time. Stay tuned, plenty more interviews to come. We've got some great athletes, we've got some great guests coming your way as we get closer and closer to Beijing, of course. Obviously, we're alternating and sort of mixing up with some summer, some winter, kind of going over both sides of the Olympics there. And if you want to go back and listen to any of our older episodes and stay up to date with the new episodes as we do drop them, look for Off The Podium on all good podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts. You know them, subscribe. While you're there, leave us some rating. We'd like to hear some feedback from you. And while you're on there looking up Gwen's Twitter and her Instagram, why not search for Off The Podium? You can find us on both Twitter and Instagram and Facebook as well. Stay up to date with what we're coming up there as well as leaving some messages. We'd like to hear what you think. Kind of who you want on the show, anything along those lines. So Off The Podium, or you can just Google Off The Podium. I'm sure we're there as well. If not, then we'll contact Google and we'll be put on there for some reason. Big thanks again to Gwen. Big thanks to you, the listener, for tuning in. My name is Ben. This has been. Off the Podium. And remember, go left.
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