Sarah Snowsell Interview
A special treat for you today in the lead up to the Beijing Olympics as we not only speak to our first ever biathlete, we also speak to our first ever New Zealand Olympian as we chat with New Zealand’s only ever Olympic biathlete, Sarah Snowsell. Sarah talks us through just how an injury in a completely unrelated sport helped her take up biathlon, and just how this journey ended up leading her to compete for New Zealand at the Olympics. She also goes over the unique training needed for the sport of biathlon, just how intense the rivalry is between the biathletes, cross-country skiers and alpine skiers as well as just why she is basically James Bond in real life. It’s a great and fun interview that you will enjoy so get to listening!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, an Olympics podcast coming to you once again for another interview. So excited to bring you these interviews in the lead up to Beijing 2022, and of course coming soon some interviews based on performances from Tokyo. So we're covering both sides of the Olympic spectrum in the preceding weeks. Today though, we have an athlete who won't be competing in Beijing, didn't compete in Tokyo, in fact competed at an Olympic Games 11 years ago, and created history in doing so. I'm speaking of Sarah Snowsell, who to this day is still New Zealand's only ever biathlete. That is right, she competed in the sport of biathlon back in Vancouver, and still holds that distinction as New Zealand has never produced another biathlete. This is a fascinating chat with Sarah, because as you'll learn, Sarah's not just, I guess, your standard Kiwi athlete who grew up and was like, Oh, bro, I'm going to go into biathlon. Nothing of the sort. She is actually dual Canadian and New Zealander. So hence why maybe I don't clearly make as fun of her accent as perhaps I would with another Kiwi athlete. Any Kiwi athletes listening to the show, you're welcome to come on the show. Just be prepared for typical Aussie New Zealand banter. But it's a fun, unique story here of Sarah's representation of New Zealand during the Olympics, kind of how she got into the sport, how she's still so heavily involved in biathlon 11 years later. And listen to a very interesting story when it comes to why she missed out for Sochi 2014. It had nothing to do with her ability. It had to do with New Zealand, which is a fun story in itself. So without further ado, here is our chat with New Zealand Olympic biathlete Sarah Snowsell.
BEN WATERWORTH: Super excited to welcome our next guest to Off The Podium today. We have spoken to numerous athletes from Canada, from Australia, from multiple sports across the summer and winter Olympics. We've even spoken to Americans, but one nation we have not spoken to is the great nation of New Zealand. And we are breaking that duck today. And not only are we breaking that duck today for the great nation of New Zealand, we are also breaking the duck for the great sport of Biathlon, because joining us on the show today is New Zealand's only ever competitor in the sport of Biathlon at the Olympic Games, did so back in 2010, and has taken that sport onto new heights by still working in the sport on a different capacity still to this day. I'm thrilled to welcome to the show today, Sarah Snowsell. Sarah, first of all, welcome to Off The Podium. It's a pleasure to chat to you.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Great to chat to you too, Ben. Thanks for having me.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, as everybody can tell, of course, with your strong New Zealand accent right now, clearly it's something that must come up a lot your time competing for New Zealand at the Olympics. You're like co-Kiwi-Canadian. How do you sort of sell that? Canadi-ee-wee or Kiwi-adian? What's the correct terminology today?
SARAH SNOWSELL: I think the most common term used is Kiniwi for half Kiwi, half Canadian. But yes, I had a little bit of an accent when I was 12, and then I lost it quite quickly, which was quite sad because I think it's a beautiful accent, the Kiwi accent.
BEN WATERWORTH: You're the first person to ever say that to an Australian. That's okay. You know, you can probably say that a lot in Canada and all of a sudden, you know, it's a good accent, whereas us, we're like, no, seriously, you don't need to say that. But I'm fascinated to learn about your journey into the sport because I read a story that essentially at 13, you got injured doing gymnastics, and then were handed a gun. And then that's what took you on your journey to biathlon. Is it that simple, Sarah, that you get injured in gymnastics, here's a gun, and all of a sudden, you're gonna go to the Olympics when you're a little bit older?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Well, I wouldn't say it was a total simple process, but that is what happened. I fractured and displaced my elbow on the parallel bars. And then mum and dad signed me up for kind of tri-biathlon night, and I had some girlfriends already doing it. And yeah, I loved shooting right away, and then it just kind of progressed from there. I'll say it really helps to start a sport when you have friends in it, and that was the main motivator right away. And then from there on was my career.
BEN WATERWORTH: The rest is history. So was this in Canada? Was this in New Zealand? Because you've sort of spread your time between the two countries a bit across your life, haven't you?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so we had just moved back to Canada. Sorry. Yeah, back to Canada from New Zealand after living in Nelson for four years. And then we moved back to Canada, and I broke myself and started biathlon almost right away. And then, yeah, moved back to New Zealand when I was 19. So it was a good stint in Canada where I started my biathlon career.
BEN WATERWORTH: What's really interesting is going from a sport gymnastics then to go into biathlon. It's not exactly the biggest connection. I mean, in Australia, we have talked to plenty of athletes, particularly say in aerials who sort of get recruited from gymnastics across to freestyle skiing. So it's not that uncommon here at least to have gymnasts go into winter sports, but I don't really see the connection between biathlon and gymnastics. Was gymnastics as a child, was that sort of your sport that maybe if you had ambitions for the Olympics, that's where you were looking at? And before the injury, how was the gymnastics gymnastics career going?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Oh, well, I wouldn't ever have called myself a gymnast as I was quite young, I would say like this happened when I was 12. So I was pretty little still. And yeah, I really enjoyed gymnastics. It was really fun at that age. And then after I fractured my elbow and it was quite a bad fracture, I would say like, it's still, it's kind of stiffening. I'm starting to get arthritis at 33, which is like mind boggling. But we're lucky because we're in Canmore, Alberta, and that's where the 88 Olympics were. So it was quite an easy transition to start cross-country skiing and start biathlon because of the resources in the area. Otherwise, I don't think it's a very common transition from gymnastics to biathlon.
BEN WATERWORTH: Those are the skills exactly transitioning too much from one sport, you're not doing the beam while you're shooting stuff, things like that, right?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Right, maybe the flexibility helped a wee bit.
BEN WATERWORTH: Maybe, maybe, maybe. Simone Biles potentially on for Milan 2026, you never know, right?
SARAH SNOWSELL: She can do anything.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. So in terms of when you first go through this, and you first see the sport, had you had much exposure to biathlon before that, or cross-country skiing, Nordic skiing at all? Was this something that outside of, you know, come along with some friends have done it? Had you seen much of it growing up?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Well, I would say yes, because having been born in Banff, and then mum and dad are quite big outdoor enthusiasts. They were big cross-country skiers. We did it as we were kids in the Jackrabbit program out of Canmore and everything. So for sure, I started skiing really young, but then moving to New Zealand when you're nine, I was definitely more into the summer sports after that. Like I loved sailing and I was highland dancing a lot. And kind of doing whatever kids do, everything, especially kids. Like you never have your shoes on and you're just running around doing everything that you can. So that was a big point where I wasn't even near snow really. And then when we moved back, it was what you have 13 months of winter in Canada a year. So you're just like in it all the time. So it's hard to not get into cross country skiing bath on downhill skiing or anything like that once you're back in Canada.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it a case of when you're sort of exposed to those sports? I mean, as a chart, is there sort of a big rivalry between the Nordic skiers and then I guess the other skiers? Like, I mean, kind of is there a rivalry between the downhillers and all the other ones? Or is it kind of like you, as much as the sports are different, you kind of can work in cahoots together in some way? Like you're not going to be shunning the slalom kid just because you're a biathlon kid?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Well, I would say with cross country and biathlon, we're definitely in cahoots together. I would say we all race biathlon, or whoever does biathlon will typically race cross country races here and there, especially when you're younger. But there's rivalry in anything. So even there, it's like, oh, biathlon against cross country, like they can't hear, or whatever, they can't shoot, or we have a rifle. But it's always fun and like a friendly rivalry at times, but most of us are teammates with cross country skiers. So yeah, we're friends. Now, the downhill world and cross country is a bit of a different story. We don't have really anything to do with downhill skiers. Although, now that I'm married to an ex, he raised fists like some race, grew up racing, there is a rivalry. It's like, oh, the cross country nerds. And yeah, it's horrible. That was a rivalry I didn't even know about as an athlete.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which is fascinating because, I mean, obviously you've spent, you know, born in Canada, Canada, New Zealand, so you're exposed to it more. But for most of our Australian listeners, we're obviously only ever exposed to skiing at the Winter Olympics. And then all of a sudden to us, some of us go, oh, well, downhill and cross country are the same thing, right? You're both on skis. So why all of a sudden you got it different? Or freestyle skiing is the same thing, right? You're on skis. But obviously there's vast differences between an aerial competition, a downhill competition and a biathlon competition.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Absolutely. And I'm still learning. Like I'll be like, oh, let's look at that downhill skier. And then he's like, oh, no, he's racing a, I don't know, slalom or GS or a super jam. There's like five different competitions just in downhill.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which the one time I ever, well, I've been to a ski resort twice, and I won't tell about my time skiing because that's embarrassing. But the first time we went there, we went snowshoeing and didn't realise we had to go to the Nordic section of the course. So we're there like looking at these people coming down the hill, the chairlifts, all that kind of stuff. And they're like, yeah, no, you got to go about a couple of k's down that way. You're in the wrong part. And then that's when I got to see cross country and all that for the first time in person. And to me, I'm like, that's my type of skiing. I'm not going flat down a hill, you know, 200 km an hour. I just want to be straight up looking like I'm just going through the snow having fun. So I tell you what, if I ever got into skiing, I would be the Nordic man.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Hey, that is great to hear because it's usually the opposite. And most people, when they first start cross-country skiing, are not super suave looking on the snow. I'll say they look a little bit Bambi-ish. It is an awkward sport to learn. But once you get it, I think everybody loves it. Especially with the pandemic, people have like the popularity of cross-country skiing has just skyrocketed, which is awesome.
BEN WATERWORTH: When it comes to choosing between biathlon and cross-country, is it a simple case of if you're given a gun and you enjoy shooting, you can kind of combine the elements? Or is it just a case that cross-country skiers want to have something a little bit more difficult, like a challenge? So rather than just kind of cool, I'm just going to have a leisurely couple of case ski throughout the woods today. I'm going to add the element of having to shoot at a target every now and then. I mean, kind of what brings about somebody picking up a gun and adding this shooting element to their cross-country skiing to take up biathlon?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Right, that's a good question. I guess the big difference between biathlon and cross-country is accessibility. So you can just pop your skis on and go on a golf course. If there's like three centimetres of snow almost, you're good to go and you can just walk along on your skis if you're just doing classic, because there's the two classic and skate techniques. And that's cross-country skiing. So it's a lot more accessible. So that's one of the biggest differences. And then to do biathlon, you do need kind of a biathlon range. So then that's accessibility as well. So we're super lucky in Canmore that we have a world-class range as well as in Whistler has one as well. Silver Star has a range. You know, there's quite a few ranges kind of spotted all over Canada. And then it's the programming. So it's like, is there a program that someone can join? Is it easy to join? Do they have a rifle that people can rent? Or do they have to buy a rifle? And, you know, rifles start or around $3,000 is very typical price for your biathlon rifle. So yeah, I would say with biathlon, it's accessibility if the programming is there, and then if the passion is there. So maybe it is a master's athlete that's been cross-country skiing their whole life. And then they're like, oh, or their kid gets into biathlon, or they're like, oh, man, look at that cool person with the rifle on their back. I want to try it. And yeah, sometimes that's intriguing for them as well.
BEN WATERWORTH: To me, it's very James Bond biathlon. You know, it's kind of like you got to love a Bond movie where they're skiing and shooting at each other, right? So to me, as a Bond fan, I feel that if I was to cross the Nordic, I would take up biathlon because all of a sudden. You came up with it, so it's your turn. When you first do it, when you're sort of getting there at a young age with your friends and everything, was it something that you just took to immediately? Was this something that you saw yourself going forward as a potential career or something that even if there was a dream for the Olympics that, hey, this could be a possibility, and you just kept working your way up the ranks?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, pretty much. Like I picked up the rifle and hit five for five, and just was like, yeah, this is my jam. And just pretty much started right away. I was definitely weaker at the skiing, so shooting was my strong point for a really long time. And that might have been because of that four-year period in New Zealand, and then coming back, and the fence had been skiing that whole time, so I was definitely delayed in that progress. And then, yeah, the shooting was definitely like my strong point and how I... I don't know if I really went into it being like, I'm going to be an Olympian. Like that's a long time ago now, but I was always an active kid and always like with biathlon, it became almost full time automatically with cross training in the summer and everything like that. So it was a big part of my life pretty much from the moment I picked up that rifle.
BEN WATERWORTH: When it comes to what you're saying there in terms of stronger skier, stronger shooter, when you are getting people into the sport, is it an easier case to get a cross country skier to add the shooting element to it? Or is it a possibility to grab someone who's good at shooting and go, hey, you're bloody good at shooting, let's put some skis on you and teach you some skiing? Or is it kind of not really that much transition? It's more about the skiing first than the shooting comes afterwards.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, that's a great question. And actually with my role now, we do a lot of analytics on like, what is the most important sport between the two or aspect of biathlon? And it has shown that being a stronger skier is where you get the higher performance from. And so you can take a cross-country skier and give them a rifle, but you do still need to hit the target. It's not totally skiing. And then you can be a crap shoot and not hit anything and win. That doesn't happen. But it is shown that yeah, the stronger the skier you are, the more potential to have a higher performance.
BEN WATERWORTH: How would you explain biathlon to say some of our Australian listeners who aren't overly familiar with it and do see it at the Olympics? Give us a brief overview of how it works and how does the shooting come into the skiing. So is it essentially like cross-country skiing where it's a timed event, but then the shooting, does that bring you time penalties if you miss a target? Is there points? How does that actually work, the shooting element in with the skiing element?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so there's lots of different competitions in biathlon and different distances and different penalties depending on what race you're doing. But the main gist of biathlon is you always start skiing and you always finish skiing. You're doing different loops and you're shooting in between. So if that helps. Let's take, for example, the woman's 7.5km sprint. So it's called a sprint. It's not like a 100m sprint. It's 7.5km. Wow. So it's the longest sprint anybody would probably ever do.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, Andrea de Grasse, come on. 200m, come on. You're going to do a 7.5km before we talk about your gold medal, mate. Come on.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I'd love to see that. Well, maybe not. But yeah, so you do a 2.5km loop, and then you come in and you shoot prone. So in Bath on, there's two shooting styles, which is lying down or standing up, and lying down is called prone, and standing is standing. And we don't kneel or shoot from the hip or do a block one-handed side angle. It's just those two.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's the new one coming to 2026, the gangster style as you're talking about, right?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Get more spectator interest, you know. So you do your two and a half K loop, you come and shoot prone. There's five targets in front of you, 50 metres away with open sights. So there's no scopes or anything like that. And you are shooting at the prone target, which is about the size of a golf ball. But it looks bigger because you're actually shooting at the centre of the target. But if you watch biathlon, you'll see that what you're actually seeing is the standing target, which is about the size of, I would say, an average palm, hand palm, not palm tree. But so you shoot five, and if you miss, you know, out of your five bullets, if you miss two, three, one, nothing, whatever it is, the penalty you do is a 150-metre loop that you ski.
BEN WATERWORTH: Right.
SARAH SNOWSELL: So then you go out, you do another two and a half kilometre loop, and then you come and shoot standing. Again, if you miss, it's a 150-metre penalty loop, and then you do your last two and a half K, and you finish. And that's the sprint race. And then there's multiple other races, but the one that's different than those is the individual, where instead of a ski penalty, every miss gets one minute added on to your time.
BEN WATERWORTH: One minute, wow, geez. Bit of a penalty.
SARAH SNOWSELL: A little bit of a penalty. That's the precision shooters race, in a way, because it's quite long. For the women, it's 15 kilometres, and for the men, it's a 20K ski. But every miss, you get a minute added on, which is quite a huge penalty.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's insane. How do they term it as a 7.5? Why not a 7 or an 8 or a 7.6 or a 7.5? Like 7.5 is very specific that they go that way. Is it because it's half of 15? Is that essentially the methodology behind that? Or, I mean, that's such a unique thing that's 7.5.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, I would say let's go with that it's half of 15, but actually, I don't know. I guess it divides nicely into three, whereas 7K, I don't know.
BEN WATERWORTH: True, true. That's, yeah. The research department here Off The Podium can maybe dig that out eventually with that. So when it comes to the training aspect, I mean, such a unique sport where obviously you've got two very individual sports for it. And kind of as you were saying about before, how you kind of can recruit people on that tour. But such a physical aspect with the skiing, but then I can imagine the shooting though has to take up a fair amount of time as well. I mean, when you were sort of competing at your peak, how would you sort of spread out the training? Was it more of a case of Monday skiing day, Tuesday shooting practice day? Or is it kind of a combination of the both that you really had to get that practice of the precision shooting on the skis to really kind of get that shooting working rather than in a standing still target that you do at a shooting range?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so yeah, I guess any training plan like you'll have our athlete has a yearly training plan that's divided into different segments or phases or whatever sport wants to call it. And with biathlon, now this is my plan, and I was a bit of a different athlete because I had a coach for a while, and then I was with, I had a Slovenian man making me a coach for a bit, and then a Canadian for a little bit. So I was a little bit inconsistent in having like a training plan all the time. But you would usually start with this, is the building phase at the beginning. So you're doing long runs, long roller skis, which roller skis, if the Australian crowd doesn't know, is hilarious two-wheeled roller blades with cross-country ski bindings on them, and you wear your cross-country ski boots and use your ski poles, and it's to simulate cross-country skiing, and that's a big summer training sport for biathlon in cross-country. When you see it, it makes sense, but a lot of people, yeah, it's hard to kind of...
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm picturing it. I'm trying to imagine it. Yeah.
SARAH SNOWSELL: YouTube roller skiing, and you'll... Yeah. But yeah, you're building, and that's when you're really working on your precision as well. So you're having those long sessions at the range where you're doing fine aim, you know, you're really getting your sights lined up, and you're working on your best shot possible. You're working on your trigger pull, if any shooters in the crowd, you know, you're taking in your slack, and you're really working on the fine aiming side of things with your trigger pulling, with your sights and shooting and all of that. And then as you start getting through the season, you start combining them. So you start doing more combo training, which is what they call when you're shooting, shooting and skiing. You do your combo training, and then you're also in the gym two or three times a week, adding in strength. And that starts at the beginning of the season as well. And then as you get more and more later into the season, you start adding your intensity into things. And then as you get into the season, race season, that's when you're kind of taking, you're not doing long workouts anymore. You're just doing shorter workouts focused on the racing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because I can imagine it's similar in many ways to distance runners, isn't it? Where you don't want to kind of burn yourself out. You don't want to, you know, a marathon runner is not going to run a 40k race every single week for practice, are they? So I can imagine is that a similar thing for biathletes that you don't want to burn yourself out every single week and kind of peak yourself when you come to competitions.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, absolutely. And a big part of, you know, sport, especially Olympic athletes or hopefuls, is the peaking and when they're going to peak. And to actually get that peaking time frame correct is like an art, you know? You're really working on, do I race the full season? Do I take this weekend off to then have time for a good training block to then be able to peak at whatever Beijing on February 6th, you know, in that race. And yeah, so I would say, Biathlon, you do your competition probably maybe more than a marathon runner would do theirs because marathons are so long. I thought my leg was going to fall off when I ran a marathon. It didn't, but it was horrible. But yeah, I would say we often ski, you know, a three-hour ski or a two-hour ski is very normal. It's like a Sunday kind of training block, but you're not racing every single weekend of every single week leading up to a season because then you'll just burn out.
BEN WATERWORTH: How heavy is that gun that you are having to carry on your back through a race?
SARAH SNOWSELL: So it has to be a minimum three and a half kg.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow. So is that a case of adding that into the gym that you've got to kind of be used to carrying this three and a half kilogram weapon on your back? I mean, because I can imagine that again, those pathetic cross-country skis don't have to worry about that, do they?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Not pathetic. They're amazing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Come on, stick it into them. You're on Off The Podium now. We don't care about those lot. Come on.
SARAH SNOWSELL: But they don't have a rifle on their back.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's right.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yes.
BEN WATERWORTH: Come on, put it on your back, cross-country skiers. Those biathletes are stronger than you are.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I didn't say that.
BEN WATERWORTH: No, you can put that on me. That's OK. But I mean, in all seriousness, it's kind of it's one of these things that, you know, anybody, an armchair expert like myself can watch and go, it's just cross-country with a gun on your back. But you don't, I guess, realise that that gun adds the weight. And then even something as silly as the bullets. I mean, do you just have to have it preloaded beforehand? Is it a case of the gangster thing where you can kind of pull out the clip and go, you know, James Bond style? Because I can imagine it's all very rule based, where you're probably only allowed to have the amount of shots in your gun for the targets, I'm assuming, and not sneakily kind of rapid fire at the shot. Oh, look, I got it on my seventh shot.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, totally. And there are people watching to make sure that you're not shooting six or seven bullets. But yeah, you have little clips that you carry on your rifle. We don't have the cool, like, cross the body bullet holder, like Chewbacca. We have, like, a rifle. And usually you'll carry, you know, say it's a sprint, you're shooting twice, you'll carry two clips. Some will carry a spare clip, or their coach will have one on the range if you crash and lose one. And then you do have a spare bullet holder that you can fill. And at the end, they take out your spares and count what extra bullets you have, if you have those on there for safety.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is the gun just a specific biathlon gun, or is this kind of something that, say, shooters will use in professional shooting? I mean, is it a specific gun to the sport of biathlon, or can you equate it to another type of gun in a different shooting sport, so to speak?
SARAH SNOWSELL: The first thing I'll say to that is my father always told me it's not a gun, it's a rifle, Sarah.
BEN WATERWORTH: A rifle, right, okay. I'll write that down for Beijing. Rifle, okay, don't call them guns.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I don't know the reason behind that, actually. I never, but yeah, it was always ingrained in my mind that it's a rifle, it's not a gun, because I don't know, guns are dangerous and a rifle is for sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's a good explanation, though. We can use that.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I just leave that up on the spot, but it sounds good.
BEN WATERWORTH: No, we'll take it, it works, yeah.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Thank you. And what was your question?
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it sort of just a specific rifle for biathlon?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yes, it is. It's a.22 caliber. So it's like a farm rifle that you would use to kill a rabbit or whatever on the farm. But it's made very specialty for biathlon. So every athlete or if you're on the World Cup, you have a custom made stock and some are carbon fiber, some are wood, it's kind of personal preference. And everything is getting custom molded to your hand or your cheek, you know, where you're resting your cheek bone on is, you know, that level is perfect for you. The shoulder, like the butt plate that goes into your shoulder has like markings and perfect little do-higgies on it so that it goes to the same spot every single time. Because that's the biggest thing is you zero your rifle in before the race. And then you just go race. And if you keep changing your position, then your zero is off and you're not going to hit the target.
BEN WATERWORTH: When it comes to getting to the targets during a race, is it a designated spot so you will have spot 22? Or is it like a triathlon where you just kind of just grab whatever you can on the way through? Like if you're first, you're going to get the best position essentially than you would if you were 21st.
SARAH SNOWSELL: It depends on the race. So in the sprint, it's a free-for-all. Usually, well, always prone is lane 1 to 15, and standing is lane 16 to 30 or 31, depending on the range. And so you can kind of choose whatever, Matt, you want to go to. And you're coming in, you're breathing hard, you're looking and you're like, okay, I got to get ready for shooting now. So you're looking down, you're choosing what lane you want to go on, checking out the wind, making sure it's on the right target, set to prone, and then you're shooting. The same with standing. You can just choose where you want. Whereas in the pursuit, where you're starting, however you finished in the sprint, so say you finished a minute behind the leader, then you're starting a minute behind the leader, then there's someone on the range lining you up for what target to shoot on.
BEN WATERWORTH: Do you ever get tempted, if you are a minute behind the leader, to just go, fuck this, pull the gun out, and just shoot the person in front of you, so you've got one less person to beat?
SARAH SNOWSELL: No, no, never, ever been tempted to do that.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm just saying, I mean, you know, you can take that on board. There's another future event. You know, even the playing field outs are those damn Europeans, stop winning it, come on.
SARAH SNOWSELL: You know, we've been talking a lot about rifles and gun control here in North America these days.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, yes, you can see the difference of cultures right now coming through with that. You talk about when you sort of come up to that zone, though, when you're about to shoot, how does that go through the mind at that point? Because obviously you're exerting yourself with the skiing, you've kind of got to get that down. Is it like the heart rate's got to go down, kind of the concentration, you're zoning in there on the shot? I mean, is that the most critical part of every biathlon race? Is that lead up into the phase where you will be shooting?
SARAH SNOWSELL: It is very important for sure. And that is probably the, you know, one of the things you train or focus on a lot is your range procedure. Yeah, I will say a lot of people have asked in the past like, Oh, I heard that you breathe between heartbeats. That is not true. You're controlling your breathing. And you are practising. So I always compare it to like the Summer Olympics. If you, it's like training for the 10-metre diving, whatever, event, and you need to train for it. And if you just go and try and do it, you're going to not do very well. So it all comes down to training. So you're working on your breathing rhythm and working on, you know, you breathe in halfway out, aim and shoot, and then breathe the rest of the way out. And that's kind of how your breathing rhythm is going.
BEN WATERWORTH: Was there a point when you had gotten to a certain point, let's go back to what we were talking about before, that you thought the Olympics were a realistic goal? Was there kind of one moment when you hit the tour in Europe where all of a sudden you were like, okay, well, this is a possibility. I could be an Olympian.
SARAH SNOWSELL: You know, it was kind of a funny transition. I remember I never was able to call myself an athlete. Like I never identified as an athlete for the longest time. And I don't know why. I think it made it feel very professional and serious that I am an athlete. Like that is what I do. And for some reason, I struggled with saying like, that's my full-time job. But yeah, I guess there was a point where when I qualified for the Olympics, 2010 Olympics, I was in Oberhof Germany. And I didn't, 2010 Olympics were not necessarily my goal because I was 21. I was still quite young, but I was on the World Cup. And so it was a possibility. And I don't think until I really got on to the World Cup circuit and to that standard or level of competition, did I realise, okay, maybe I could actually race at the Olympics. And then it was kind of a, I felt like I was in a bit of a fog the whole time because I couldn't believe it had happened. And it happened so quickly that I was like in Europe, qualified for the Olympics. Then I went to the Olympics. And then I went and continued the season, which I think a lot of people don't realise, or at least I didn't when I was younger, that there's still a whole season after the Olympics that the athletes go and finish.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which it also is interesting that I believe, did you have the possibility to compete for either Canada or New Zealand? And you went the route of New Zealand. What sort of was the process there, and what made you choose New Zealand over Canada?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so I went to, I was racing for Canada until I was 19, and I raced at World Junior Championships or Junior Youth Championships. I don't remember if I was a youth or a junior. Anyway, I think I was a youth for Canada, and had a great result and really enjoyed it. And then I went to New Zealand when I was 19, like I said, and had a training period there during Canada's summer and my winter, or New Zealand's winter. And it was, you know, I really wanted to visit friends and family also, so it was like a combined trip in that way. And while I was there, there was a IBU International Biathlon Union coach, like development coach there, who, as well as the, you know, biathlon New Zealand was already a thing, like getting going or I don't know how long it had actually been functioning for, but it was mixed in with modern pentathlon in New Zealand. Yeah, I'm not really sure. I think because it's a multi-sport thing, they put them together, but yeah. And so this coach was from the IBU and was like, you know, you could have an opportunity to go to Europe and do this. And I just said, okay, and decided to switch nations. And I'm super proud to have raced for New Zealand. You know, there was not just the opportunity to go to Europe right away. You know, in Canada, there was a deeper competition field, and you know, you're qualifying for things and teams and things like that. Whereas this was like, yeah, you can go and go right away and see how you do on the international stage. It is also intriguing to be one of their first, or their first female biathlete was quite great. And then I think I still had that patriotism for being a Kiwi, like having grown up there, and that was pretty exciting and a couple new opportunities there as well. So there was a bunch of things that motivated me. I will say my father was quite shocked when I came home. He said, I'm racing for New Zealand now. And he was like, oh, I thought you were going to do Canadian Trials. And I was like, oh, well, not anymore.
BEN WATERWORTH: Was it a case so that had you stayed competing for Canada, you also would have made the team? Or is it a different criteria, as you're saying, because it's more of an in-depth field that maybe you wouldn't have made the cut for Vancouver?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, it's definitely two different ballgames and two different qualification systems and governing bodies and everything. So who knows what would have happened? It's funny, the Canadian system for qualifying is they have different qualification standards. I don't know what they were for 2010, but going into Beijing coming up, it's like you could have started qualifying last year, last season with top 16s, and then it's kind of a ranking system. And if you don't qualify, if not enough athletes qualify under that, then you can have a closed race in Canada and choose a team. So no matter what, we will send for women and for men. Whereas New Zealand's qualification was there was a standard that you had to meet. And so in a way, it wasn't more difficult, but you had to meet this standard for New Zealand, which I forget what it was now. And the moment it was such a big deal. And now I'm like, oh, was it tough? I don't know, 50% of the field or what was it? But yeah, so I guess I would say there's no saying what would have happened at all if I would have made the Canadian team or not.
BEN WATERWORTH: To put it into context though, I mean, kind of as you're saying about that first female biathlete from New Zealand, I mean, to this day, you are New Zealand's only ever biathlete to compete at an Olympic Games, which I mean, in itself, that's got a great ring to it. But even just in that sense of pride, you're saying you have for being a Kiwi. I mean, that must be a pretty big deal, Sarah, to kind of have that you still are the only one, but you will always be the first biathlete to ever compete for New Zealand at an Olympic Games.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, it's cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: Flat bang on the Twitter profile, or sort of the regimen there. But it's also, I think, interesting too, just to compare, like, just the level that comes to the two nations when it comes to all winter games. I mean, in Vancouver, New Zealand sent 16 athletes to the Olympics, whereas Canada obviously, I mean, home games have obviously got some more, but 206 athletes. So that kind of, you know, covers the difference there. But I mean, even on a team of 16, I can imagine that the New Zealand Olympic team is quite close-knit going over to Vancouver, even if there's maybe rivalries between the sports. But I mean, I can't imagine 16 people. I mean, you've got more people than that on the All Blacks, basically, going off to a World Cup. So I mean, was it sort of a tight-knit little community when you all hit on that plane over to Vancouver ahead of the Olympics?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, you know, my experience with the Vancouver Olympics were a bit, I would say, different because I am half Canadian. And so I, you know, my mum and dad were volunteers. My mum was a part of the finish line crew, and my dad was like the assistant chief of stadium or something like that. My uncle and aunt lived in Whistler. So I had this family there as well. And I went from Calgary to Vancouver. It was my big arrival. So I didn't have this experience where I boarded the plane and flew, you know, there was a send off and flew whatever 14 hours and then arrived. And sadly, right before the Olympics, I got food poisoning in Italy and ended up in the merge. And then I got sick when I got back to Canada. So I arrived late and, you know, it was beautiful. There was three of my teammates and one of the team managers when I arrived, did the haka as a greeting. And it was amazing. But I was alone also. So, you know, it's kind of just me and this amazing arrival, greeting. It was great. And then as a lot of the athletes on the New Zealand winter team are individuals. We don't have, or we didn't, or I'm not sure if New Zealand ever has had a women's or men's hockey team at the Olympics.
BEN WATERWORTH: You probably have to go back to the... Yeah, I mean, maybe back a long time ago. I mean, I know Australia did it in like the 50s, but I don't know if New Zealand did. So I can tell you, I can gladly tell you, you've had a curling team at the Olympics. So 2006, so there you go. That's a team sport you've had.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so I knew our cross-country skiers, and we were quite knit from quite close from training at the cross-country at the Snow Farm in New Zealand. And so I knew them and, you know, Mitchie Greg, who is a ski cross athlete, we actually went to university together after the Olympics. I got to know her very well, and she's a very close friend of mine now. And so, yeah, you do get to know them, but I would say it was a different camaraderie because we're all single athletes, like individual athletes in a way, training in our individual sports with our own individual schedules. So it was hard to really have that bonding and have those moments with athletes because we all kind of had our own. This is how I feel about mine. I had my own kind of biathlon family that was there as well. So I was also seeing a lot of them. But I do wish that I'd had, I don't know, a bit more focus. I was in such a fog at those Olympics because it was such an unexpected, amazing opportunity that I wish I had really, you know, connected more with some of my teammates there.
BEN WATERWORTH: Before I follow up on that, I'll just say New Zealand has not competed at the Winter Olympics in ice hockey, unfortunately. Australia did in 1960. So there's those playing at home. Did you do the whole opening ceremony, though? Did you get the chance? Were you out there marching, or was it a case of your competition was a little bit too close to the opening ceremony, so you skipped it?
SARAH SNOWSELL: It was the hardest decision, I think, I've ever made to not go to the opening ceremonies. And that was because our village, we were in Whistler. So it was two, it was over two hours, I think, to get to the opening ceremonies. And my race, I think, started at either 9 or 10 a.m. the next morning. We were the very first competition. And so the bus, I don't think, got home till like 2, 2.30 in the morning from the opening ceremonies. And I just, I had an internal battle where it was like, okay, am I realistically going to get a medal? No, I was not. Like looking, there was, that was not a thing. But how do I feel as an athlete? I'm here to compete going to those opening ceremonies and not giving my race the 100% focus and the reason I'm there. So I decided not to go. And that was really hard. I kind of, I still don't know if I made the right decision, but I went to the closing ceremonies and that was very cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's good. You got to see Nickelback. So that's a positive. Exactly. That's why you go to the closing. I mean, I always find that fascinating because a lot of our guests on the show, we talk a lot about the Olympic experience outside, of course, the competition. And it is often a case, particularly at, say, a first Olympics that maybe it's not quite that experience, thinking that it would be maybe if you go to a second or a third one, because as you said, you focus there as an athlete. As much as it's great to be in the Olympics, you still want to compete and do your best. And as someone who, again, as I say in all these interviews now, has failed in my career to become an Olympian. But I would always look at these stories where they would say, oh, the swimmers aren't in the opening ceremony because they're competing in the first thing in the morning. I'd be like, fuck that, I'm still going, I'll get two hours sleep. I want that experience, you know. But again, easy for me to say on that. But I mean, it's, did you kind of get, you said you're in a bit of a fog during the Games, but was there any moment where you kind of just stopped and kind of took in that experience that you're an Olympian?
SARAH SNOWSELL: There was moments when you get to go watch the downhill, or you get to go and watch the luge or bobsled, and you're right there really close. And it's like almost, it felt more in those moments that I was watching other athletes compete. I was like, oh, wow. Or even in the food court. I remember one of the American bobsled, I forget who it was, giant man was getting his lunch. And I was like, oh my goodness. I've never seen a human that big. And that was like, it was cool to be surrounded by all these amazing athletes and teams. But as soon as you're on your own race course, you're just doing your job. You've already done a test event at that venue, because there's always a test event before, typically except for Beijing, because it was cancelled because of the pandemic. So going into Beijing, our athletes and a lot of teams, I don't know if any teams apart from maybe the Chinese team will have skied on the race course. So that'll be wild, but typically there's always a test event before. So you've already done it. You've got those first race jitters out. And now you're just doing your job.
BEN WATERWORTH: When it comes to courses, is there certain types of courses that, say, are suited to certain type of biathletes? I mean, is there more of a focus on, I don't know, certain sections of a course in those loops that you're talking about? Like, I mean, do they add elements of, you know, steep hills and downhill bits and uphill bits? I mean, kind of what to you as a biathlete is a course that suits your style best and was the one at Whistler one that suited your style as a biathlete?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, I would say no. Whistler was not my course. I was actually quite intimidated of Whistler. I had stopped one biathlon race in my life, and that was at Whistler because of the back injury I had. And so I went into the Olympics very nervous of failing again. And it was a really bad way to approach my races, looking back at it because I was nervous before even starting that I was going to have to stop because of my back injury, even though it was just my past experience. Also Whistler, you know, I would say I really enjoy more climbing. I like harder uphills and quite fast downhills versus flats, because I just didn't have the power on the flats, whereas some athletes have that beautiful, long, powerful glide, and they're really strong. So yeah, for sure, there's different courses that athletes do well on and not as well, and I feel like Whistler was maybe not my best choice.
BEN WATERWORTH: Did you set yourself a goal? I mean, you were obviously saying before that realistically, you didn't think you could get a medal, but I mean, in such a big field, you know, close to 90 competitors in both the events you're on, I mean, do you just set yourself a goal of don't want to be last, I want to be in the top 80, top 70, or is it a time thing kind of what was your goal and how did you feel you went to the goals that you maybe did set yourself?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so it's funny, like these big things happen to you that you're going to remember for the rest of your life and then you forget it. But I would say my goal was to make the pursuit, which is top 60. And my positioning goal, I think, I wish I could remember, but I think it was, you know, to be at least top 40, as my best result in the World Cup was 43rd, which had happened that season. But then I got that food poisoning and then I got sick and that kind of all compounded to a poor result. But yeah, top 60 was, I think, you know, to make a pursuit. It was a big part of my dream as an athlete, I guess, which is a very simple goal for some teams, of course, like their goals to get first. So it's all perspective and it's all different and it all depends on the athlete situation. But I think I got 82nd twice or something like around there. And I was disappointed for sure. Like I didn't perform how I wanted to. But again, I was so, I guess, shocked, not shocked, but it was such a surprise to be at, not a surprise, it was just so incredible to be at the Olympics. And then to be racing that I honestly wish I had been able to go to 2014 to then really compete. Like 2010 was my development Olympics, and then 2014 was where I was hoping to really compete. And I feel like I learned a lot at the 2010 Olympics, and then it didn't transition to the 2014.
BEN WATERWORTH: Before I ask about sort of what happened in the lead up to Sochi, I mean, two things on that. First of all, you can always say that, Sarah, you set a New Zealand record at the Olympics by finishing 81st, 82nd. I mean, no one's ever gone better, so you still hold that record, so there you go. And also, I guess, too, I mean, as close to a home Olympics. I mean, it is still technically a home Olympics for you being sort of from both countries. I doubt we're ever going to see Queenstown 2034, maybe, never say never, but it's kind of one of these things that you still technically get to compete at a home Olympics, even though you're maybe not competing for the home country.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, I'm very proud, and that will never be taken away, like you said. It is very, I don't know, it's very cool, and I am very proud, and I'm proud that I was there, and I'm proud that I competed, but the competitions didn't go as planned. But we've seen that for even the top athletes, like Simone Biles, you know, that's not how she planned her Olympics to be, and that's what happened, and that is also just fine.
BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of, actually, before I follow up there with Sochi, we've had plenty of winter athletes on the show, and I always love kind of, because winter sports are obviously, a lot of them are very much dominated by the One Nation. We had Alujas on recently, and of course, it was like, you know, do you just hate the Germans winning everything all the time? I mean, is it a case in biathlon? It's like, oh, those Norwegians, like, just stop it. Like, I mean, we saw recently in Tokyo, they're starting to take over sprinting now in triathlon, like they're taking over the world. So, I mean, God, do you just get frustrated at watching Norwegians be so good at biathlon and these sports? And how can we stop the Norwegians, Sarah? Come on.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Well, that's a good question. They are amazing, and they're so strong. It's very impressive, and they dress very well. They're very trendy people. I will say that I'm also jealous of their style, not just their strength.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Definitely a powerhouse. There's a lot of powerhouses in biathlon, but Norway is the one that always like, it's like, whoa, yes, there they are.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is that a case of that countries like Canada or other countries are always trying to recruit Norwegian coaches because like they're doing something right, there's something in the water, or the Norwegian is very protective of their amazingness in sports like biathlon where they're like, no, we're not leaving Norway. You can't have our coaches.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, well, maybe that's what we need to do. But, you know, we have incredible coaches all over the world that are like moving from team to team. And the thing that I didn't really recognise until I started on the World Cup is, you know, one coach will be with Germany, and then two years later they're with France, and two years later they're with Norway, and then China, and then Russia. So some of these high-performance coaches are like moving around with all the teams and passing on their expertise or whatever training all these athletes. So it's intriguing, but I would say that a lot of teams wouldn't say no to a Norwegian coach coming on to their crew.
BEN WATERWORTH: I think Norwegian coaches are listening, you know, if you need a job. So after Vancouver ends, then obviously the goal, as you're saying, is to kind of go back again in 2014 and sort of take that experience and move forward. You ultimately didn't go to Sochi. Sort of what happened between the end of the Olympics in 2010 and then the next Olympics in 2014?
SARAH SNOWSELL: So I had a bit of a moment where I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. Is this really what I want to do? And I ski patrolled at Lake Louise Ski Field for a little bit. Yeah, that was awesome.
BEN WATERWORTH: The shooting helped, clearly, stopping all those rowdy people out that way, sure.
SARAH SNOWSELL: That's right. I went to university at Queenstown Resort College in Queenstown and did Adventures in Management while training full time. So I guess that's how it went. Biathlon, the season finished after 2010. I moved back to New Zealand and went to university and still trained full time and did that season, the 2010-2011 season in Europe. And then, yeah, had a little bit of a, you know, am I, is this what I want to do with my life after university and did a bit of ski patrolling at Lake Louise and went to World Champs for biathlon and cross country. So I was still training full time, but trying to figure out my life, I guess, in a way, which a lot of athletes go through, especially when they're 18 and then post every Olympics. I would say there's always some internal conversation going on. Do I want to keep going for another four years? And so by that time, it was now 2012, and I was like, yeah, I do want to keep competing. And so I moved to Switzerland and raced and trained with the Swiss girls there in Oberengedien in St. Moritz area for a year. And that was an amazing experience. The one thing I'll say about my biathlon career is it probably wasn't the best for performance, how I did it, but it was amazing for character building and life experience. Like being able to live in Switzerland for the year, and then I moved to Italy for a year after that. And it was really cool. And switching to Race for New Zealand brought those amazing opportunities, and training in Switzerland, like not many people get to say that they got to do that, and it was very cool. I don't know how legal it was with switching passports, having to and going to England and switching and going back. You know, that was a bit of a James Bond moment as well.
BEN WATERWORTH: Again, we're just learning, you just really are James Bond here, it's all good.
SARAH SNOWSELL: And then for the Olympics, the New Zealand Olympic Committee changed the biathlon qualification. And I again wish I could remember if it was a percentage or a placing that I needed, and I didn't make it. So I made the international standard to be able to race Sochi, but I didn't make the New Zealand Olympic Committee qualification standard. So I didn't get to go.
BEN WATERWORTH: How does that work? You've had one athlete in the entire history of a country go to an Olympics. You've made the international standard. But did New Zealand just get cocky after 2010? Well, we nearly got top 80s, and now we're going to have to put this a little bit higher now for Sarah moving forward to such. I mean, that to me sounds a bit strange that if you can make the international one, but you're not at New Zealand standard.
SARAH SNOWSELL: You know, it's common. Most countries, their qualification standard is a lot harder than the IOC standard, than the International Olympic Committee. And some teams, you know, won't send a full team, even though their athletes have made the IOC standard, they won't send a full team if they don't make their own federation standard.
BEN WATERWORTH: We had controversy over that in Pyeongchang with our female bobsled team. It was a very similar situation. They made the standard, but the AOC, it wasn't even the AOC, sorry, it was a bobsled Australia where they were like, no, this isn't good enough for us. So there was a lot of controversy around that. So it's interesting. It's very sort of fascinating. And it's just kind of particularly, and this is not me trying to take the piss out of New Zealand, something that I enjoy doing, but it's just kind of it's interesting that a country that's had like not much history in a sport, you know, they've got you, their only athlete, wouldn't at least maybe go, OK, well, we know you're good. You've been to an Olympics before. So we're kind of just, you know, scoot around the edges a little bit and we'll let you go. How disappointing was that to kind of be at an international standard, but not at that standard where you could get on that plane to Sochi and compete at a second Olympics?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, it was super disappointing. You know, it was, I, that was the Olympics I'd been training for. Like I said, the 2010 Olympics were amazing. A little bit of a bonus Olympics, if that's what you want to call it. And then 2014 was the big goal and the big plan. That was part of the plan. And even though maybe those four years before it didn't show it, now that I think about it, but it was always the goal was 2014. And it was disappointing. But now that I'm working, like I'm the High Performance Coordinator for Bath on Canada, and I'm working within this world now, working with the COC and working with Bath on Canada on creating these qualification standards. And it all depends on your nation's approach to the Olympics. Do you want to send tourist athletes, or do you want to send performing athletes? And do you want a medal, or do you just want a top 80? And so that's where New Zealand is. We see them in the Summer Olympics. It's such a strong nation, especially for the size of it, and they're doing so well. And that's the mental approach, or at least the approach to the Olympics, is we don't want to send, you know, necessarily athletes that are just there to be there. We want to send athletes that are there to compete and to perform. And so that's where that comes from. And in the moment, I didn't understand, and it was really hard. But now, what are we? Seven years later, and I'm in this different role within an NSO, and I'm like, okay, I see where they're coming from. As an athlete, you don't, but once you're in this administration world, you're like, aha, yes, I kind of understand.
BEN WATERWORTH: Did you have any desire after that situation to push forward for 2018? Did you sort of continue on, or was that kind of back to what you're saying about working out what you want to do as an athlete, and do I want to go through this for another four years?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, I would say, there were a couple comments people made that were like, why are you doing it? Why are you still here? And those, I think, hit me really hard, and I retired. And I think I was ready as well, because I was alone in Europe. I had trained with the, or I travelled with the Ukraine team for two years, my first couple years, and then I kind of hooked on with the British team for a wee bit. And then I didn't have a coach for a little bit, and I was hiring random coaches and trying to get my skis waxed. I had the Polish team waxing my skis for a while. And then I was training with the Swiss team, but I was, you know, my parents came and my dad zeroed me on the range at one of my World Cups. And so I was a very, you know, mishmash of things, and I was getting a little bit tired of the begging for funding, you know, like for support and not being able to support myself and not having that funding. And it was really hard as well. So I think I retired at a good time for me, like especially mentally, I was quite over it. And I couldn't train or do a sport or anything by myself for four years after I retired. I was like so unmotivated. And I think that's a good sign that it was a good time to retire.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, so taking up team sports and trying to get on to that New Zealand ice hockey team.
SARAH SNOWSELL: We're going to get it going.
BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly, exactly. So from that transition point, then was it always a case of wanting to get into where you are right now? I mean, sort of how do you go from kind of competing at that level to, I guess, transitioning into the office role, the admin role, sort of that biathlon, and this time in Canada, obviously, and, you know, putting the maple leaf back on rather than the silver fern.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, so then I moved home. I needed that time to just be with family, and I realised I'd been away from family for seven years, you know, with little snippets here and there. And I was noticing changes every time I came home, you know, in my family and in my friends, that I was missing, you know, big things and those family celebrations. And so I decided, yeah, to come back home. And I was here, I was in Canada for a little bit, and then I went to Nicaragua. So that didn't last me long, as you do. And yeah, and then I started pursuing a career in the ski guiding industry. So there's that downhill skiing side of things coming in.
BEN WATERWORTH: Going to the dark side.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, and so I did, I pursued the guiding side. I became a hiking guide with the Canadian Mountain Guides Association. And then just, yeah, and then, you know, as life goes on, it's just been a good transition. And I met my husband at a backcountry lodge ski touring, you know, a very Canadian story, I guess. And yeah, and we got married. And then I was like, oh, maybe I should think about getting a bit of a actual career. Where I guess settled down is a little bit of a term people use. And I saw the posting from my performance and office coordinator of Bath on Canada. And yeah, it's been quite the transition. I'd never had an office job before, but it used my adventure tourism degree quite well. And with my sporting background in biathlon, and it just seemed like a good transition.
BEN WATERWORTH: And so what then does your role entail? How would you describe it to someone like me who probably has never even heard of a high performance sort of role in Biathlon Canada until only a couple of months ago?
SARAH SNOWSELL: So my role, I'm like the biathlon of the administration. There's two different roles in my job.
BEN WATERWORTH: Lots of shooting people, basically you're saying.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I've got the high performance side where I'm doing all the logistics and planning for the senior, for any European tour, as well as the U24 and U20 development teams here in Canada. So any logistics to do with that. And, you know, all of the travel, anything to do with registration and getting them to Europe. And then now with the Olympics, I'm the team leader for the Beijing Olympics, which is great. And then, which sadly, I won't get to go to, or I'm actually finishing my role with Bath on Canada in three weeks here, going on a one-year maternity leave because we're having a little baby.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, congratulations for that. First of all, I was going to say, I mean, disappointed you don't get to go to the Olympics. But I mean, I guess if you're not going to go to the Olympics, that's a pretty good reason not to go to the Olympics, right?
SARAH SNOWSELL: So we'll be watching the Olympics from home, which is, yeah, it's been quite the two years where I've really learned about this role and that whole high-performance side, which I did for myself as an athlete, and now doing it for multiple teams on the Canadian. You know, you've got the junior youth, the IBU, and then the World Cup teams, as well as our university teams go. So that's been really cool. And then I do all the admin. So that's the membership stuff, and you ship targets across North America, and all the national, you know, all our big paperwork and carding with the Canadian Sport Canada and everything like that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, all that fun stuff we all dream about, right? Kind of all that sort of thing. So how then in the lead up to Beijing, how is Canada tracking when it comes to biathlon? Will it be a case of a certain amount of athletes you're allowed to send? I mean, is your qualification going on? Kind of what happens between now and the Olympics?
SARAH SNOWSELL: We, yeah, our team is awesome. I'm super excited to be a part of the program going into Beijing. We have, well, most likely, it all depends on the qualification, and that's still ongoing, but we'll most likely send four women and four men. And that, you know, they can qualify all the way till January 17th. And I think the cutoff for naming teams is like the 19th or something of January. So they have right to the very last minute to qualify. And we have, yeah, really strong team. We have Emma Lunder has had three top tens last season. We've got Christian Gao and the Gao brothers, Scott as well. You know, super strong, really good results. Top, you know, top 16s at world championships. They have a possibility of getting a medal, which is amazing. And then we have our younger part of the team and they're 23 years old and also up there with those guys. So I think going into the Beijing Olympics, the Canadian team, it's a very real possibility of getting a medal.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because it's one of these things I had to look this up. I mean, again, as an Australian, you think of Canada, you think of esteemed winter nations, dominate sports, win medals and everything. But only the two gold and the bronze in the sport of biathlon from Miriam way back in 92 and 94. So it's been a while since Canada's medaled in biathlon. So I mean, it would be great, I can imagine, to see this trout broken in the Olympics in a few months.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, it's... Yeah, I'm excited too. And I'm hoping we'll also have the first male biathlete at the Olympics for New Zealand. Campbell is a super strong young athlete coming up and he's very strong.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I really am excited to watch his career. And I really hope that he's working towards Beijing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Do you have a lot to do still at all with New Zealand and sort of any of their winter programs? I mean, obviously they got a couple of medals in Pyeongchang, so I can imagine it sort of excited New Zealand a little bit more for the winter sports. It did great deals for Australia, of course, when we started winning medals. So, I mean, is it something you still stay in touch with in New Zealand and help them out where possible?
SARAH SNOWSELL: I don't, and I wish I did, and I miss them so much. But I think with the babe coming up, and I would really like to move back to New Zealand for a long period of time. And so as soon as we're back in New Zealand, that would definitely be a priority to get back up to the snow farm and reconnect with that community because it's small but mighty. And if anybody's in New Zealand and you get a chance to go to the snow farm, it's kind of a beautiful winter wonderland and unexpected wonderland, I would say. So go give it a look and have fun, because it's pretty cool up there.
BEN WATERWORTH: The one thing I loved about when I lived in New Zealand is that living in Invercargill, I've grown up my entire life in Hobart, the most southern city, you could say, in Australia. Then Invercargill was even further south, if you look at a map. And I spent 31 years of my life in Hobart, woke up to snow once, it lasted for about an hour, and then it disappeared. We'd get snow on our mountain, but that was it. I was in Invercargill for not even a year, and we got snow basically for two days. And I'm that Australian who is obsessed with snow. When I lived in Canada and it snowed, I was like a kid on a candy store and everyone was complaining. So to me, snow is amazing. But yeah, it's kind of interesting being in New Zealand. And Queenstown, I mean, I can imagine when you're studying, if you're doing that kind of degree, I mean, are you just using that as an excuse to go bungee jumping and kind of downhill skiing, all that kind of stuff all the time, because it's part of what you're studying?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Pretty much, yeah. It was the perfect, perfect schooling. We just did pretty fun. Like we did do bungee jumping and canyon swinging, and we went on week trips and did backcountry stuff. And it was, you know, river surfing. I don't know. It was a very cool program. And I think if anybody's unsure what to do, go do that, because it combines education with a lot of fun.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, the question I have to ask, and the last question I'll ask, when you were last there, did Fergburger exist in Queenstown?
SARAH SNOWSELL: It did, of course.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, how many days would you line up around the block to get that good burger? Because it was always a long way. It was, and it's try and get your Fergburger.
SARAH SNOWSELL: You know what? From what I've heard, we went back to New Zealand two years ago, and I could not believe the change to Queenstown. And the line up for Fergburger was, I was like, I don't remember it being like that. And now there's the Ferg Bakery, I think, right now. Oh, man, those pies. I would die for a pie here in Canada right now.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, because it's not a thing that pies just don't exist in the same capacity in North America, do they? It's weird how it's not a thing there.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I know, it should be, because they're so hearty and delicious. You think it would be the perfect apres ski snack. People died and they just haven't taken... We need Jimmy's pies, and then we can just mow down on those babies all the time.
BEN WATERWORTH: Cookie time. Do you miss cookie time? What about those, you know, earlier was it, between 8 and 9 a.m. you'd have the $1 cookie time coffee with a cookie on top? I mean, that was all you needed.
SARAH SNOWSELL: That was all you needed. And when they opened the cookie time shop in Queenstown, it was like everyone got a free cookie on the first day. The line up was literally three times around Queenstown, and it was amazing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful part of New Zealand and a beautiful part of the world. I mean, flying in and out of Queenstown and experiencing itself whenever you go into the airport, it's just stunning the absolute views you get there. And I've actually, you're talking when you were about the roller skis before I'm thinking around like the devil staircase that you could kind of just go around those roads in the lead up to Queenstown. I mean, I remember you having to drive that from Invercargill all the time. That'd be fun to ski around. It would be good practice.
SARAH SNOWSELL: I did used to roller ski around New Zealand, and no one knew what I was doing, but I'd always hitchhike back down, and it was always fun chatting with whoever I was hitchhiking.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can imagine it's a fun thing that you can just bring up in conversation, too. And then all of a sudden, I can imagine, too, if it comes up that you're an Olympian, you're like, oh yeah, I represented New Zealand. People hear your accent, like, oh, cool, great, Canada. No, no, New Zealand Olympic athlete. I mean, that must be a fun little thing to pull out at a night out on the town sometimes.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, at the beginning, it would come out every now and then, but now it doesn't come up as often. I will say hitchhiking with a rifle is a little more exciting, but everyone just tell them it's a good car, and they're good to go, or a banjo, and they're fine. But yeah, that's always a fun little mission.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, geez, you don't think about those things sometimes when you're hitchhiking around there. Sarah, before I let you go, anything that you want to sort of plug right now, people want to sort of stay in touch with Biathlon Canada, or any sort of personal Instagram, Twitter, social media, anything that you want to give a shout out now for people to either follow you or follow Biathlon in Canada?
SARAH SNOWSELL: Yeah, like Biathlon Canada, following our Instagram, I think it's at biathloncanadaofficial. And, you know, that would be a great place to support our athletes and follow them there. I honestly am so bad with the social media now that I don't even know what my handle would be.
BEN WATERWORTH: I did find your Twitter, it doesn't look like it's been updated since 2016. So, you can still there if you want to use it. I guess you just have to maybe update it slightly.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Great, okay, well, you know, I'll pop back on the tweets there.
BEN WATERWORTH: I just ran over a squirrel on my road bike. It survived but scared the living bejesus out of me. Hashtag mountain life from July 29, 2016.
SARAH SNOWSELL: It was horrible. The squirrel, I hit it with both my wheels, and then it still ran off the track. I don't know. It was an amazing squirrel. But no, I would like to say hello and a big love to the Biathlon New Zealand and everyone in New Zealand. And I miss everyone so much and can't wait to come back and see all of you. So yeah, thanks for having me. And this was great to reminisce of my past life, I would say.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's a pleasure to have you on, Sarah, on so many levels and kind of reminisce. And yeah, as I said, we look forward to seeing how the Canadians go come Beijing. We may or may not have some more guests to talk about that on the show very, very soon. But it's been a pleasure to learn about your career, New Zealand's only biathlete and also running over squirrels right at the end there. That's probably maybe my brief highlights just towards the end. And being James Bond as well. I mean, James Bond runs over squirrels clearly. So there you go. More James Bond proof right now.
SARAH SNOWSELL: Thanks so much.
BEN WATERWORTH: And a big thanks to Sarah for giving us her time there. Fascinating insight, and it's kind of a sport that you don't really associate with New Zealand. And very interesting to see that it was New Zealand's fault, let's say, why she didn't make it to Sochi. I'm not trying to bag out New Zealand, but I find it still very interesting that there wasn't a standard there that could be met, given that she was the only athlete ever to compete in that sport. So fascinating, fascinating insight there. And thanks very much to Sarah for her time. Stay tuned in a couple of weeks time, we will be revisiting the sport of biathlon. So I will just give you a bit of a tease when it comes to that one in about a fortnight's time. Next week though, our next interview, very excited for this one. We have another dual interview. Of course, we had a couple of wrestlers on before Tokyo in our first ever dual interview then. But this time around, we've got two curlers joining us, an Australian pairing of Tali Gill and Dean Hewitt, who hold history in the sport of curling for Australia. They finished fourth in the mixed doubles curling world championships back in 2019. The best ever finish for Australian curlers at any international event. It was a big, big deal for Australia to make the semi-finals on an event and ultimately finish fourth. So Tali and Dean are a real prospect of making it to the Olympic Games next year. Never, never has Australia competed at the Olympics in the sport of curling, at least when curling has been an official sport. You will hear a little bit in this interview next week about Australia's representation when it was a demonstration sport previously in the Olympics. So Tali and Dean on the cusp of creating history and another genuine medal shot. If they do make the Olympics, they are in with every chance of potentially not only creating history as Australia's first ever curlers, but also Australia's first ever curling medallists at a Winter Olympic Games. And it's a great chat. You'll learn a lot about how they got involved in the sport in Australia. Just how limited curling is in Australia, which given our previous interviews with Canadian curlers, where the sport is almost a religion in Canada, this is almost the complete opposite in Australia. So fun chat. You will get a lot out of Tali and Dean next week. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, if you want to stay up to date with everything Off The Podium, we're on social media, of course, Facebook, Twitter. Instagram is where you can hit us up. Leave us some feedback. We'd love to hear what you think of the show, and you can do the same when you subscribe to our show on all the podcast channels, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher. Just search Off The Podium on any of those, and you will be able to stay up to date with these. And go back and listen to our back catalog. Maybe you want to go back and listen to some of our previous interviews. I mentioned some of our curlers from Canada before. Maybe you want to go back and listen to all our coverage of Tokyo that you may have missed. We'll go all the way back to Rio when we first started. That's our first Olympic games we covered. And of course, Pyeongchang's in there too, if you want to listen to daily recaps of all those. So plenty to keep you occupied when it comes Off The Podium content. If you're missing the Olympics, it's been a few weeks now since Tokyo, of course, but we've got plenty to keep you covered to really keep you in the Olympic zone. Big thanks to Sarah once again for her time. We will be back next week. My name is Ben. This has been Off The Podium. We'll speak to you then.
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