Kirsten Kinash Interview
It's an exciting day today as we chat with our first ever Artistic Swimmer in the form of Australian Olympian Kirsten Kinash to learn about her amazing career, Olympic experiences and of course more about her amazing sport! We find out Kirsten's unique journey from growing up in Canada and getting involved in the sport right through to moving to Australia and the challenges in continuing her career on this side of the world. We also learn more about the sport and why it is maybe the most difficult sport in the world to compete and all the challenges that come with being an Artistic Swimmer. Added to this we learn more about the performance aspect of the sport, why Star Wars could play in to a future Olympic appearance and just how Kirsten officially became a meme after Tokyo. It's an amazing chat that you won't want to miss!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: An Olympics podcast coming to you once again for another athlete interview from a sport we have never covered on this show before. Well, we commentated on it during the Tokyo Olympics, but we've never had an athlete on the show from the sport of artistic swimming, previously known as synchronised swimming. And today, we're breaking that duck. We're gonna be speaking to Australian Olympian Kirsten Kinash competed in Tokyo, and such a fun and informative interview here. You are gonna learn so much about the sport today. It's a sport that often a lot of people sometimes mock, sometimes people don't really know a whole lot about and only get to see it every four years in the Olympics. And I'm guilty of that too. I've definitely been on that page where maybe I haven't taken it as seriously as people should. But after this interview, I am completely on the opposite end of that spectrum. I am saying this right now. I think artistic swimmers are maybe the most complete athletes on the planet. They have to do so much work to compete in their sport. And have to basically be an every athlete on every single ability that you can imagine. And Kirsten really goes through the details of just how complete of an athlete you have to be to compete in this sport. Probably the most difficult sport on the planet to actually get right. And all the elements you will learn today about how this sport is so difficult. It is such an informative interview. You're gonna learn a lot. It's also a lot of fun too. You're gonna learn about how maybe I'm gonna be joining her in Paris to compete, which is always a dream of mine, and how Star Wars is involved in that as well. So without further ado, here is our chat with Australian Olympic artistic swimmer, Kirsten Kinash.
BEN WATERWORTH: I have to start on these introductions by saying that I'm so excited to speak to today's guests in whatever sport they're on and give a bit of a talk. But I'm not even going to beat around the bush today by saying how excited I am to talk to today's guests, because we have never had an athlete from the sport of artistic swimming on. And this is a sport that I have always, always been fascinated by. I have always enjoyed watching it at any Olympics that I watch. I've always wanted to learn more about it. Let's be honest, I've tried it in a pool, and clearly not very good at it, hence why I'm not an Olympian. Maybe some other reasons behind that too. But this person today is an Olympian. She competed at the Tokyo Olympics, and we're here to learn a little bit more about her journey to the Olympics, more about the sport and everything else. In between, it's a pleasure to welcome to Off The Podium Kirsten Kinash. First of all, Kirsten, welcome to the show. It's a massive pleasure to speak with you on the show today.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Hi, thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.
BEN WATERWORTH: I am happy for you to be here too, because I'm not lying, I love artistic swimming. But I just need to start off straight away by saying, artistic swimming, not synchronised swimming. What happened there? When did this become a thing? Because we got confused during the Olympics, that we didn't know if we were being offensive or whatever by calling it synchro. Like this is recent, right? And why is it now artistic and not synchro swimming?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so it is pretty recent. I think there's a lot of opinions in the community about the name change happened in 2017 Worlds in Budapest. They, yeah, made the switch from synchronised swimming to artistic swimming. But if you call it synchro, no one's gonna be offended. I still do. My dad tried to bring Ardo. But I don't think that one's really picked up. Yeah, I guess it just, I really like the name synchronised swimming because it's, I guess, finally made an impression in the community. People finally knew what the sport was, and then they changed the name. So now we're trying to kind of build up the impression, or get people to learn the term artistic swimming. But I guess it summarises the sport better because synchronised swimming, we always got the question like, oh, what happens if you do a solo? Is it still synchronised swimming? Synchronised swimming, but the sport is a lot more about portraying an art and portraying a storyline or capturing the feeling of the music. So I guess that's why they changed it to artistic swimming. Probably a bunch of behind the scenes reasons as well. But so I do really like the name, but no one's gonna be offended if you call it synchronised swimming.
BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, good, just wanna make sure. We didn't know if it was kind of like tying in a little bit, say with gymnastics. So if you've now got artistic swimming, is there maybe a rhythmic swimming so that maybe we can see like ribbons and balls and batons and that in the water? Like, is that kind of what they're trying to do?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I haven't heard anything like that, but that would be wild. I would love to watch a sport like that or be a part of it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, hell yeah. I think that would be fun. And on that topic though, like there is legitimately solo artistic swimming, isn't there certain competitions where there is sort of, you can compete just as an individual?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, yeah, that's a big part of the sport. Lots of girls do solos. So, yeah, we have Olympics obviously is just teams of eight, but we have solos, duets, combos, which have 10, all sorts of different groupings.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is it just like a Royal Rumble, where everybody in the pool, like 50 people just kind of going for it?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I want to see that too. I feel like you should be on the synchro board making some decisions.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm happy.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah. We used to have the World Trophy, which was an amazing event that had props and things. So you should definitely go check that one out.
BEN WATERWORTH: I want to see props in artistic swimming. This sounds amazing. Come on, like, geez, what's going on IOC? Bring this into the Olympic program.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, let's go.
BEN WATERWORTH: And I have to ask as well, because this is a legitimate question when we had our rhythmic gymnast guest on recently, is male artistic swimming? Is this a thing? Does it actually exist out there?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, it is. It is. Which is incredible. I'm a big advocate of inclusivity, obviously. And I'm hoping in the next, like, coming up games, maybe Paris. Actually, sorry, not Paris, but the next one, LA, hopefully, they bring males into the sport. Yeah, it is a thing. It's growing. I think it's recently, relatively new, sorry. So there's always been the odd male involved in the sport, but it's only been, I think it was Kazan World Championships was the first world where males could actually compete. Great. So it's new that men are being trained from a young age of six or whatever into the sport, but we do have one male artistic swimmer in Australia, Ethan, he's really great. So, and we've got a few young ones coming up at different home clubs. So yeah, I'm a big advocate of getting males involved. It's great, especially mixed duets are so beautiful to watch.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, so there's mixed duets too. That would be fun to watch to kind of see that too, wow.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, definitely. It's really cool. And the women fly so high out of the water. It's great to watch.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can imagine figure skating in water, essentially. Kind of like you've got the mixed pairs and all that sort of stuff too. But I love hearing that because in all seriousness, it's great what the IOC and sort of the global community is doing for including sort of making sure that the genders are balanced and everything. And obviously we've got a long way to go with those sort of things. And the majority of it is getting more sort of female events on these mainly predominantly male events. But there are still like, obviously, yeah, I think of artistic swimming. I think of rhythmic gymnastics. Sports in which they are obviously predominantly female. And even I learnt recently, Kirsten, that softball, you know, I think softball baseball, you think male, female, but there is male softball and there's female baseball. So it's, isn't it interesting how these things work? I'm learning a lot on this show.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That's great, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: It kind of plays out well that people can listen to this show and be educated at the same time, maybe sometime. But I'm intrigued about your journey into the sport because you originally are from Canada. Now you fit perfectly in with this show, given that we're dual Canada, Australian sort of production essentially. So tell us about how you got started in the sport. Was this something that you got started in Canada? And please, plug where you're from in Canada because you make me happy where you're from in Canada and particularly the hockey team that you support as well.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so I'm from Calgary, Alberta, and go the Flames. Yeah, I got started when I was, I think I was six. I was always kind of a water kid, like really confident in the water and loved swimming, but I was really bored of just looking at the black line, swimming up and down. I wanted something more and I'm super feminine, like such a girly girl. So Synchro was sort of the perfect fit. I did get started in Canada. The sport's a bit more well known over there, I'd say. So yeah, my mum just brought me to a club when I was a kid and I was instantly hooked. So yeah, it's such a beautiful and addicting sport. It's a lot harder than it looks. So that makes it addicting as well. You just wanna keep learning the next skill and keep trying and going to practices until you get it. So that's kind of how I got hooked. And then when I moved over to Australia, there wasn't any clubs for a while until eventually I found the Gold Coast Mermaids. And they are just the best. They've made Synchro such a great experience for me. And I was really lucky because when I was coming up, all the Olympic team was training on the Gold Coast. So as a kid, I got to watch them and be so inspired and learn a lot from them. And that's been a big part in my Synchro career is learning from the people who came before me.
BEN WATERWORTH: I've got to say your accent is very Australian with a bit of a blend of Canada to it. So what age did you actually come to Australia and what brought about the move to Australia?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so I came over when I was nine. I'm 23 now, and it's such a, it's weird. I thought I'd be more Aussie sounding by now, but-
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, you definitely are, but I can just, it's kind of like that subtle blend that I'm sure, I don't know if like people pick up on it, or if it's more of a, you go back to Canada, and people are like, oh God, you sound so Australian now. Or people here go like, oh, where, because it's very Australian. It's like 80% Aussie with a few twangy Canadian words, if that makes sense.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That's exactly it. My nose are Australian, and then my R's are Canadian. So wherever I go, people are like, what are you? Makes me feel exotic, but I'm really not.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is this where I get you to say the sentence like, oh, I'm out and about on the Zamboni A, and like, see how Canadian that sounds.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Can you say that one more time?
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm out and about on the Zamboni A.
KIRSTEN KINASH: I'm out and about on the Zamboni A.
BEN WATERWORTH: More Australian, there you go.
KIRSTEN KINASH: My Canadian friends got me to say, no, I am a hobo.
BEN WATERWORTH: No, I am a, yeah, I always would find that in Canada, that whenever you would drop an O, that's when people would generally make fun of my accent. But I don't think I'll say quite long enough to pick it up. Although I do find myself saying A, I legitimately will text people and be like, oh, it's cold today, A. I'll be saying that, like, what's going on? I wasn't there for that long. So it kind of happens that way. I mean, you mentioned the sport in Canada. I mean, it is quite more significantly bigger in Canada. I know there's been some success from Canadian synchro swimmers, medals at the Olympics and everything along those lines. Is it something that when you were starting off in lap swimming, that do you get poached? Like you sort of said, you were sort of sicking of seeing the black lines, but can synchro coaches see you and maybe think that your style is more suited to synchro? Is that something that happens a lot in Canada?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I mean, I know that definitely happens in the European countries, or it's more your hand selected from when you're a kid. They look at you and they're like, oh, you have good points and good knees, and they measure your parents' height. Like in some countries, they really like pick a specific type of girl because everyone's got to look the same. Canada, I'm not sure because I moved to when I was so young. Maybe that's happening now, but I think I joined a rec club. I've got to think back now. This is so long ago, but I think when I joined the rec club, they recommended I tried a more serious club because I did have a bit of a natural swimming ability. So yeah, that was good. But other than that, I think they let anyone try. And in Australia, too, they're encouraging of all girls. I was definitely a bit of an uncoordinated, awkward kid, but I just kept trying and I got really addicted and fell in love with this sport. And in the end, that's what counts. It's your commitment to the sport over your natural ability.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's fascinating to think that Australia hasn't really had, I guess, a massive global presence in the sport because we're a water-based country. Obviously, swimming is one of our top sports, if not our top sport on the global scale. And yet, Canada, I don't often think of people as a kid going, I'm going to go to the local pool. It's more of a, I'm going to go to the local ice rink. I'm going to go to the ski field, something along those lines. So it's kind of, it's interesting that Canada is a pretty successful nation in synchro, yet Australia hasn't really translated. Of course, I think it's the one water-based Olympic sport that we have not meddled in. If I'm thinking off the top of my head, obviously diving, we have swimming, open water swimming, water polo, we have. So yeah, it's kind of, it's interesting. Do you know if there's a reason in Canada why synchro is well received, successful? I would go out on a limb and say that and diving are probably your two most successful outside of the pool when it comes to those sports.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I'm not sure. I think there's a lot to synchro with. You need a lot of girls coming through because then you can be more selective and it's more competitive. And you need like strong national team coaches, which it can be a bit hard getting people all the way out to Australia. And you need that coach or a set of girls to stick around for at least the four year term, if not eight years or more than that. Yeah, you just need a strong national team who stays together for a long time. So it's just a lot of behind the scenes stuff that can make a country kind of place or not. And you need to be a strong team for years and years and years before you can climb up the ranks in our sport. So Australia is getting stronger with every generation. And I'm very excited to see the girls compete in Paris. I think it's gonna be a big step up. We're looking to beat Egypt. That's our next goal.
BEN WATERWORTH: So traditional rivals.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes. But yeah, I'm not entirely sure why a winter country is so much more established in Syncro. That's a great question.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm not here to kind of delve into the history of the sport in Canada, as I know you're an Aussie, Kirsten. You're not Canadian. You're just kind of just where you were born. But it's always interesting. And I mean, I always like it when we get our Canadian athletes on and sort of we talk a little bit more about the geography of the country too. Whereas I think it's obviously a lot sort of things are based in the East versus the West. I can imagine probably a bit more in the East. In Quebec, it's maybe a bit more based more so than sort of the West side of things. But yeah, we're not here to discuss the Canadian geography of synchro. We're here to talk about the Australian side. The one thing sort of that is always fascinated me about the sport, I mean, and you kind of touched on it before about it, it's a much more difficult sport than it seems. It's kind of, I remember as a kid when Sydney got the Olympics and our family was like, we're gonna go to the Olympics. We're gonna go see some events. And the joke was, we're not gonna be able to see any events. All of them are gonna sell out. We're only gonna get tickets to the synchronised swimming. We're like, well, whatever, it's fine. We will go see it. But in all honesty, if we had have gone and we had have gotten tickets, I would have absolutely loved it because it is so fascinating to watch. And when you watch it and really kind of see what you're doing, the difficulties of it, because it's not just about swimming, is it? You've got to be able to have strength. You've got to be able to have balance. You've got to be able to be agile. You've got to learn a routine. You've got to, I mean, can you think of another sport that is even comparable to the difficulty of it? Because gymnastics, hard sport, but they're on land. They don't have to add water to it as well. They don't drown halfway through the floor routine. Simone Biles can breathe normally for half of her routine, can't she? She doesn't have to take a breath every minute. I mean, are there any sports out there that are comparable for the difficulties that synchro has?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, synchro really is in a league of its own. And I think a lot of people don't understand when they're watching how difficult it is, because if synchro looks easy, then it means the athletes have done their job, because it is a very hard sport. So anyone who's watching thinking it's easy, it just means those athletes are working so hard to make it look seamless and effortless. And actually, it's a very like entertaining sport at the Olympics, it's like, I heard, I don't know if I heard this from a synchro swimmer, so maybe it's biased, but I heard synchro is one of the fastest selling out sports at the games. Yeah, because I guess people don't really think about it until it comes around that every four years, and it's something that's really entertaining to watch. Yeah, so I'm biased, but I think it's one of the best Olympic sports to watch.
BEN WATERWORTH: You're allowed to be biased, but that's the thing though, I completely agree with that, because going back to my intro, it is one of those sports that, I mean, particularly in Australia, we only ever get to see during the Olympics. It's kind of not something that's really publicised much here, but it is fascinating. And the thing that really made it so much more entertaining this year from a television perspective was that new camera. I mean, I don't know if this is new in the sport. It's probably been around in world champs and everything for a while, but at least from an Olympics perspective, it was that sort of line camera where you had the water kind of in the middle of the camera, and we could see everything that was going under the water as well as on the surface. And we may have done some commentary, Kirsten, during the games. I don't know if we will share it with you because you'd really be embarrassed at how terrible our knowledge is of the sport, but hey, we had fun. But I mean, it's fascinating to watch because again, I have no idea what's happening and I'm trying to learn and go, wow, look at that, look at how they're doing that. This is fascinating. So it helps bring the viewers into the games.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I'd love to listen to your commentary. We'll send it to you.
BEN WATERWORTH: You can laugh at how horrible it is.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh no, I'm sure it's great. Yeah, I'm really grateful that camera was a thing because it really, a lot of people who hadn't seen this sport before, I'd got a lot of comments that they loved watching what our legs and arms were doing and they couldn't believe that we weren't just floating or touching the bottom. It was like, yeah, our legs are actually working really hard under there. And yeah, it's funny, I used to call that camera the wedgie camera because they tell you at like world championships and stuff, as you're getting out of the pool, you can't fix your togs or they're gonna see it on that wedgie camera.
BEN WATERWORTH: Really?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, I mean, you are, but it's gonna be on like international TV, you unpicking your wedgie, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: So you would rather not unpick your wedgie and see your butt basically in front, like is that more preferable?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, it's a bit of a toss-up, hey. But I guess in our sport, we're used to people seeing all parts of everything, so the show must go on.
BEN WATERWORTH: Can't quite say that, yeah, my butt is shown often into the world, so yeah, maybe, I don't know, it depends on the circumstances. But I mean, I wanna talk more about the technicalities of the sport, because I am fascinated to learn more about it, but just for you when you were sort of making your way through the ranks, when you came to Australia, when you were sort of continuing on the sport, was this always something that then an Olympics was the dream? Was this something that you grew up wanting to achieve, or was it more of as you progressed in the sport, you realised that this is a possibility that you could make an Olympics?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so when I first started the sport, I never thought Olympics, like I would go there. I always thought the Olympics was amazing. I was a lot more aware when I was a kid of the Winter Olympics being from Calgary. But I was just fascinated and amazed. The one I remember most vividly is Beijing and watching the Synchro Girls there. I just thought it was incredible. And then it wasn't until I moved to the Gold Coast where I basically learned everything because I had a little break from Synchro when I was in Canada, like between moving from Canada to Australia, there wasn't any clubs. So, I came to Australia and basically learned everything here. And yeah, it wasn't until I saw those girls training for the London team that I was just so inspired. And I thought maybe one day it could be on the cards. Yeah, it turns out it was. I was really fortunate. It's a lot of like, getting to an Olympic Games is a lot of hard work, but it's also a lot of luck and being the right body type. And there's so much having the right coaches and the right parents to support you. There's a lot of factors that go into it. And I was just one of the luckiest people in the world that it all came together and I got to go to the Olympic Games.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I can imagine if you were to do a percentage of Australian Olympians based on sport, that synchro is not a very high up there in terms of how many Australians have competed in the sport across the Olympics. So that kind of adds a little bit more of uniqueness to it. Were you a sporty kid growing up? Did you compete in other sports? Was there another potential Olympic sport that we could have seen you compete in? Had things gone a different direction?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, well, I've always loved sport and been involved in lots of stuff. My parents were always kind of as a young kid, like, you have to do something, which I was happy to, I love sport, but I'm a really uncoordinated, awkward kid. So to all the awkward kids out there, there's always gonna be a sport for you. You just have to find it. And for me, that was any water sport. I just felt at home and natural in the water. So I think if I hadn't have been doing SYNCHR, I might've tried, I don't know, like water polo or something like that. Right now, I surf a lot. I've been getting into that. An Olympic sport now.
BEN WATERWORTH: So, hey.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's amazing. But oh, those people are just incredible. Like I don't think I could reach that level, but yeah, I love skateboarding too, which I don't know. It's not quite the sport for me. I've had a few major falls in that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Are there videos, Kirsten, can we see these? I'm not saying that we wanna see you fail, but I'm just saying that some people like to.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Somewhere in the archives, there's also videos of me breaking my wrist.
BEN WATERWORTH: Ouch, okay then. We don't need to see that one, I think.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, synchro is the main love of my life, but any water sport, I think I'm a big fan of.
BEN WATERWORTH: Did you grow up sort of loving other Australian sports in terms of, do you get into rugby? Do you get into Australian football, cricket, or are these still sports that you kind of like, I have no idea what's going on?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, I love going to games, like I'll go and cheer, but I'm, yeah, a little bit lost. I'd say I'm definitely biased. I'm more obsessed with like the artistic sports. So I love watching like ballet or any of the gymnastics, all of those.
BEN WATERWORTH: What about breakdance? I mean, we're about to see breakdancing in Paris. So I don't know, like, this is, we're all confused about breakdancing, because I've never seen a competitive breakdancing match in my life. But I mean, I don't know if this is a thing that maybe in the artistic sports community that we're missing out on, that you know much about breakdancing. Maybe this is another sport that, you know, after synchro, you could try your hand at breakdancing.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I don't know about that one, but I'm really excited to watch it. It is wild. Like, I think it's easy to look at these sports that sound so obscure and say like, oh, that's a weird sport or that surely that's not like that difficult. But synchros taught me to not knock it until you really understand it. Because yeah, I actually, I wanna learn a lot more about breakdancing and how the scoring system works and stuff like that. And I think people had to learn that this Olympics with skateboarding and surfing all of those ones. But yeah, I'm curious to see what they bring out with breakdancing.
BEN WATERWORTH: I remember in Rio, when they announced all those sports for Tokyo and the one that we questioned was sport climbing. What the hell is that? But that turned out to be one of the best sports of the Olympics. That was amazing. I don't know if you caught any of the sport climbing, but it was weirdly entertaining. And I'm hoping the same for breakdancing.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, totally. I remember I was waiting for my event and climbing was on the TV and it was really comforting as a little distraction to watch that. And they were, they're just incredible. Like, I don't know how they get up that wall so fast. So it's cool. It'll be neat to see the next sports that come out of Paris.
BEN WATERWORTH: For sure. We always look forward to seeing what those and the ones, I think they're talking about cheerleading, possibly being in LA in 2028. So- Oh, wow. Yeah, there's all these sort of talks about different ones that they can add to it. So it's definitely, definitely growing. In terms of the balance of skills that you have to have as an athlete, outside of the obvious, you need to learn how to swim. What are the most important elements when it comes to training? Is it the routines? Is it the strength? Is it the stamina? I mean, kind of what, when you are growing up in the sport and progressing up the ranks, are you really working on as a synchro swimmer?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I would say artistic swimming is pretty unique because you need all the skills. Like, it's not, you can't even call it like a strength sport or a cardio sport, or because it's kind of a combination of all of them. You need a lot of cardio because you have to last for that whole three or four minutes, however long your routine is. But it's also strength because you have to push yourself really high out of the water in like a moment. So you need power for that. Or the strength to sustain a certain height or to push your flyer up really high. And everyone on a team kind of has their own unique skills, but everyone kind of needs a baseline of like strong legs to egg beater high, which is what helps us stay upright. And then you need endurance and strength in your arms for when you're upside down. Yeah, and we all have different roles. Obviously, we need flexibility, especially from our flyers. For me, what I bring to the team is, I've got really strong legs. So I'm in this tight ball position upside down in the water, and all the team is like grabbing me or grabbing each other. And then we all come up to the surface really fast and push the flyer out of the water. So the girls with strong arms are the ones kind of right side up pushing the flyer. And then I've got the powerful legs. So I'm upside down pushing. It's yeah, a big effort of all these different skills coming together to form synchronised swimming.
BEN WATERWORTH: And how do you work that out? Like on a team of eight, is it just a case of that all of a sudden we discover that you've got strong legs, Kirsten, you're gonna be in this role. Does a coach say, okay, we're gonna try this up. You may be a more suited to this role. Like how does a coach work out who is best suited to each roles? And does that change a lot sort of maybe over a world championship or an Olympic cycle to try and sort of change up the team a little bit?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's a great question. The dynamic definitely changes depending on which girls are in the team that year. But it becomes fairly obvious as you start training together whose strengths are what. And usually when we're working out a lift, we choose our spots based on the lifts and who's got the strength for what. So we will try different combinations of girls being like the chair, which is like the base and the flyer standing on top and who's pushing the chair and who's pushing with their legs and all that. So usually in a choreography session, we'll switch around and try a million different combos until we see what works best. But yeah, to select the team, it's usually based on like strength of the different movements in general. So for our Olympic trials, we all swam the routine and the judges would judge based on who could blend in with the team the best, like the moves. And then also they would score us based on who was highest out of the water for the underwater movements and above the water when you're egg beatering. There's a lot that goes into it.
BEN WATERWORTH: The egg beatering.
KIRSTEN KINASH: So that one's when you're like, basically treading water.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can see it, the egg beater. I like how that works. I mean, with the choreography, when you're working out what a routine will be, is it something that you practise on land first? Like, is it like the basics? You kind of do this and that? Or is it something that you can't really do on land? You got to jump straight into the water to be able to try it first.
KIRSTEN KINASH: I'd say it's best to choreograph. No, I'm tripping up on the same words. Yeah, it's best to choreograph in the water because you can really figure out what works and you need to figure out, oh, can we move that fast to this spot? Or sometimes our coaches will come out with really obscure ideas that you've got to try in the water to see if they work or like things that look like illusions with your legs. It's really interesting and kind of like a puzzle to figure out, to choreograph a routine because you need certain girls here on this count and it just a lot goes into it. But then once we've got those moves choreographed, sometimes we'll stand on land and land drill with our arms to figure it out and to really drill those moves into our head because memorising a million moves on specific counts is a big part of our sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, this is just adding to those layers of the difficulties of the sport because I cannot remember anything for the life of me, let alone I'd be halfway through going shit, what the fuck, how do I know how to swim? Like Jesus, like what's going on? Because it's very counting based, isn't it? So in terms of the synchronised aspect of the sport, because you're not able to, I guess, look what every girl around you is doing. It's all about counting, isn't it? And kind of working out and hoping that everyone's doing the same thing, right?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh man, yeah, Ben, like remembering the counts, the specific counts, it's the bane of my existence. And my coaches have been so patient with me over the years. Like, it is, you have to be so fast, and all these girls are so smart. So, I think I make up for it with trying to be really high out of the water and powerful, like once I have these moves down. Yeah, but I, you feel like such a dummy sometimes, like, and it's so specific. Like, I think that's what people don't realise, to look the same. So much practice and repetition goes into it. And it's not just your arm goes on three, it's your arm goes on three, but it's at a 45 degree angle, not a 41 degree angle. And everyone's hands has to be in this position. And your fingers need to be this far apart, not this far apart. I mean, I'm aware this is a podcast. I wish I could show the listeners, but it's such so specific, how you hold your hands and your shoulders and where you're looking, everyone needs to have the same facial expression and look at the judges. So I think that's when people start to understand that part of the sport, that's when it gets a lot more entertaining to watch too. And all artistic sports, I would say, are similar like that. And that's when it gets really entertaining, like, ooh, that girl isn't doing that move the same as everyone else, or she's higher, she's lower, or yeah, that's when the artistic sports get very entertaining for me anyway.
BEN WATERWORTH: And it's also, you can't really talk to your teammates. This isn't rhythmic gymnastics where I'm sure you can say like, hey, get in your position, or, you know, like synchronised diving where you can, I don't know, give a bit of a pump up before you're on, but like you kind of got a mouthful of water. So it's not like you can exactly spur someone on halfway through a routine if you're not doing well. So there's another added element to it. You hope everyone's kind of in unison and you're doing the right thing.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, for sure. Every artistic sport, I'm sure that they've practised it a million and one times. Like that's the key because you don't want to be talking to your teammate in a routine. There's no way that would fly at the Olympics. But how our sport works is we've got the music and we can hear the music underwater. And there's a beat that we have to keep track of, and every move has a count. So we count usually in eight, sometimes sixes. Our free team at the Olympics had all sorts of weird counts, which was another nightmare working that out, but it made the routine more interesting.
BEN WATERWORTH: How do you remember it? Is it, do you have a secret? Like you say, kind of like, do you work out a way of doing it for a different song, different competition, or is it literally just do what you can to try and remember it?
KIRSTEN KINASH: The secret is practising it eight hours a day, every day. It's not a fun answer. I wish it was like we can communicate underwater like dolphins, but unfortunately until we worked that tech out or...
BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, I'd watch that. It's like you're going under the water, because yeah, I mean, God, I can't remember things at the best of times, and let alone that, eight hours a day. So how many times in a day then are you doing the same routine? Like in the lead up to Tokyo, could you give a rough estimate of how many times you had practised those routines?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I don't think I can even answer that. You want to... And we practise it all day, every day, and you still don't feel as prepared as you can be. Like you can always prepare more in artistic swimming, and that's what gets countries really high up in the rankings. Just like it becomes... By the time you're swimming your routine in competition, it should be robotic. Your muscles should just know what to do when that music comes on. Yeah, I don't... Like so many times a day, you're just practising it on repeat. And so that's another thing with cardio in the sport. Like people think, oh, you have to be fit enough to do that routine for four minutes. But no, you have to be fit enough to do that routine all day. Like sometimes you're not touching the wall much at all between repetitions. And yeah, it's just got to be perfect. But that's when the good coaches come in too, because you'll be swimming the routine, and if it's not working, you'll hear the music stop. And sometimes your head's underwater. Yeah, and you come up really slowly, and you know it's been you that's made the mistake, and you're just waiting to get yelled at. But that's what you want. That's what makes you better.
BEN WATERWORTH: With the cardio aspect though, of those eight hours, is that all pool work? I mean, do you have specific time a day for gym work or any other sort of physical or cardio training outside of the water?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so in the lead up to the games, our day would be an hour, an hour plus of land in the morning, which really already isn't enough, because in that hour, we do flex, we do land drills, we would do gym three times a week, two to three times a week. So for strength and conditioning stuff, you do land bodyweight SNC, which is a lot of kicks and trying to incorporate flex and strength at the same time, because you need a lot of control on the land to have good control in the water. And in the off seasons, that's when we do a lot of that land-based strength. And then after that hour plus of land, we would get in and do maybe an hour of lap swimming to just get our swim strength up, and then we would get into routines. And usually that's broken into doing technical skills. So doing like figures on the spot, which is when you move your legs upside down. And it's very specific for one of our routines, which is our technical routine. You need to display really specific skills in a really specific way. So we'd practise that, and then we would get into our routine portion where we'd just be doing, yeah, different. Our synchro routine is broken down into laps. So usually there's three or four laps in a routine, and we would swim like, sometimes the coach would say, all right, let's do half a lap, or let's do lap by lap, or thirds, or she would say, okay, let's do the whole thing. And then that's when everyone gets really nervous. Or sometimes she says, if the lift doesn't work, then we've got to, I'll start the music again, and we've got to do another full. It just depends what mood she's in. But usually it's like the routine on repeat.
BEN WATERWORTH: This is why I was so interested to learn about this today, Kirsten, because it is all those elements, and it's kind of just so, I don't want to use the word complicated, but I mean, it is complicated, but it's fascinating, because even when you're talking about there, that I can imagine it's like figure skating, or at least any of these artistic sports, where you're saying you've got to meet certain technical requirements, right? The judges are looking for a certain element. And is that because you've got the technical, and then you've got a free routine, is that correct? And kind of the slightly different, the technical one is obviously more about ticking the boxes, you've got to achieve these certain things, and then the free, you've got a bit more leeway to kind of do a few more different things?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's right. You've done your research.
BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, look at me go.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah. So we'd usually practise like tech and free within a day. And yeah, they're very similar. The skills you need are similar, but tech is more focused on those elements and pulling them off perfectly and not getting any penalties, whereas free is more about expression and portraying the music and portraying your strength and your... I don't know, I really enjoy tech because it's very specific what they're looking for. And then free is a little bit of everything.
BEN WATERWORTH: And how much does... with the music, for example, is there rules around what you can and can't use? Because I know, say, like, I think in figure skating for a long time, they weren't allowed to use lyrics. I think gymnastics have maybe just recently introduced lyrics. Is that a similar thing in artistic swimming, that you can have certain songs, you can, you can't have lyrics, does that depend on the competition? What are the rules around the music?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, the beauty of synchro is you can get kind of as weird and wild as you want with your routines, and that will pay off with the judges. But it is very specific what we look for, because it's hard to explain, but you want music that's going to show off your ability in a good way, so it needs to be fast. A lot of the routines now on the world stage are just getting faster and faster. And that's the difference between the high ranking countries and the lower ranking ones is can you pull off this really fast music and do a million movements, you know? But then you also want something that's interesting to watch and can have different effects in it where you can show off cool choreography and really show the theme and show what you're trying to portray. So there's a lot that goes into it. And then obviously you don't want to offend the judges. It can be sometimes old school. You don't want swearing or anything like that.
BEN WATERWORTH: I was going to say with the music, I can see how that offends, but can you offend the judge in a routine? If halfway through you do a flip, can you just flip them the bird and be like, this is for that crap score you gave me in the technical, you bastards. I don't know if you'd want to do that, but could you?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I mean, I'm sure you could, but you'd pay the price for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: You go viral online. Check out what they did at the Olympics with that. I mean, I'll send you our commentary. To be honest with you, we did so much commentary, I can't even remember what the hell we did, but we had fun with the story element. We like to sort of talk up what you were all portraying as a story. But is that actually a thing, that when you're working out a routine, is there a story element? Can you say, like, this is a theme of our routine, but we're going to tell the story of the Gold Coast mermaids and how we started, how we're at the Olympics, or something along those lines?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, yeah, that is definitely. And that's what makes the sport so interesting and beautiful, is, like, that you can, when you're looking at the different routines, you can see the story. For example, our routine, one of them was Avatar themes, like The Last Airbender. I don't know if, hopefully, some listeners have seen, watched that show. And, yeah, it is kind of, we were trying to portray the battle between fire and water, and obviously all this stuff is up to everyone's own interpretation, but I found it really helpful as an athlete, like, to really have that storyline in my head as I was doing it. And when you're kind of nervous before doing a routine or worried about dying, which you never should be, but not dying, but getting tired, I try to bring back what I'm trying to portray in my mind and really think about what I'm doing and think about that storyline. It really, you need to bring that out in your facial expressions as well. So that's a big part of choreographing a routine. We think about, oh, in this bit, we're going to be angry and we're going to do our eyebrows like this. And then in this bit, oh, the water nation's coming back in, so we're going to show a really big smile and be really beautiful with the moves. And you see that in a lot of routines. Like, usually one of my favourites was in Worlds in 2017, Mexico did like a circus-themed routine, and so all their facial expressions were like clowns, like really shocked faces. And yeah, everyone like portrays different storylines, and I think that's a really fun part of the sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm so glad to hear that, and particularly with the facial expressions, because some of the best images I always get from Olympics is when they do those montages and the slow-mos, and you've got like these slow-mos of like your faces, and you're so like energetic and happy, and then you've kind of got like, as you were saying, sort of shock looks and that. And I don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but like, do you have to look in the mirror and practise facial expressions? Is this like a team bonding thing where you've all got to make sure you're all on point to know what facial expression you're pulling at each certain move?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. It's not dumb at all. That is a big part of our sport, to look in the mirror and know exactly what you're doing and exactly what your teammates are going to be doing. We like to sit in a big circle and land drill in a circle, and what you have to do is make eye contact with your teammate and not break at all, because you want to practise when you're looking at that judge to not break and really look at them and keep portraying the music. It's almost like acting, like you're staying in character while thinking about all these movements. And yeah, you want to know exactly what your teammates are doing so that you're doing the same thing.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's insane, like just the elements of this, the physical, the technical, the acting, like I mean, there's just like there's everything involved in this. This is fascinating. And is it a case of on the acting side of things? Are you in character? As soon as you walk out, you're about to jump in the pool, the music's about to start, because one of my favourite aspects of the sport is watching you all line up, and the way you all get into the pool, it's kind of just like this amazing sort of, you know, movement before the thing even gets begun, like just incredible. So like, are you hitting the floor? Music's about to start. You're in character. You're now the last airbender. I'm not Kirsten. I'm the last airbender. I'm jumping in the pool right now.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so everyone's a bit different. They have a different strategy. For me, I love to get really into it, but I guess it's a balance because the sport, it's so important about staying on time to the music. So I can get really, I'm a bit dramatic, and I can get really carried away with thinking, oh, I'm the last airbender. I'm going to do this, be really strong and fast, and getting so into it. I used to always listen to really hyped up music before I compete too. But then, I don't know, through practising that method at competitions, like local comps, not big ones, I realised that I get a bit too into it. I need to rain all that energy in a bit. So for me, I just try to do deep breaths and focus on myself and staying on the music and on the counts and what I'm going to do. Everyone's different. Some girls need to get into character more and get really hyped up so that they can do the routine with energy. I found it really helpful before my competition. I needed to practise by myself, walking out on the stage. And I would just say to myself, I'm the most confident person in the world. I've got this. And people thought I was crazy. I would walk out on the stage kind of by myself with my shoulders back, practising my synchro walk just because that's what I needed to feel really confident. And everyone has those little ticks or little things that they need to do before they compete. Yeah, so for me, it's about bringing that energy in. In practice, I practise being in character and all of that. And then when it comes to comp day, I need to rain all that energy in and focus. Yeah, but some of my teammates, one of my good friends who competed in Rio, she used to pretend she was Wonder Woman for her routine. That was really cool. I mean, we sound mad, but synchronised swimmers are mad. It's a weird sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is there something that you would like to do as a routine? Like if you're a big fan of, I don't know, Star Wars, Marvel, DC, anything along those lines that you would like to incorporate something along those lines into a routine?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, that's such a good question. I've gotten to do like so many routines now. Like over my career. So I've got to do a lot of cool things, but I think the only one left, I would love to do a Star Wars theme routine, because I love the Cantina band music.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, please do it. Absolutely. That would be perfect.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Wouldn't that be so cool? And I could just already see the legs kicking everywhere for that. I'd want to do it on a club level too, because then it could be something really fun. And a club level combo, have lots of lifts. I would love to see a girl come out of the water slowly as Darth Vader.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, hey, there you go. And then you could add the talking element to it. You could have the, no, has he come up like, where's Padme? What happened to Padme? The girl killed her in her rage. Again, it would go viral. That would go absolutely viral.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I think you've got to come choreograph this with us. Or we could do a mixtuate.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, absolutely. I'm down, you know. You can be Padme, I can be Vader, and then we can get somebody else to come in and be Palpatine, you know, get Obi-Wan involved. Baby Yoda's probably got to be in there to keep up with the trends. So, you know, hey, Paris 2024, you know, I'm always trying to find ways to get into the Olympics at some point, Kirsten. I mean, you know, I'm a bit older than you, but it can happen at some point, surely.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that would be great. I can feel my coach rolling her eyes at me from here.
BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, it's all about getting eyes to the sport, all right? I'm telling you that would happen down the line with that. When you're sort of working your way out the ranks, I believe you were selected as a reserve for the 2017 World Championships, went to the 2019 World Championships. Was there a point sort of in that period where you really felt that this was achievable? And then on sort of a side question to that, do you remember when you were officially announced, you were on the team, you were going to the Olympics and kind of what that feeling was like?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, so that was really cool. I think it was when I got selected for the team in 2019 that I felt like, oh, wow, this dream is something I can do. Yeah, so my goal going into the 2019 trials was to rank in the top eight for both routines. And when that happened, I just broke down and cried. I was so excited, because 2017 was such an incredible experience. But it's hard to be a reserve. You have to remember so much and be there for your team, and you don't get that final release of showing off your routine. So when I got selected in 2019, I was so excited and ready to honour that selection by working really hard on the team. So that's when I kind of felt like it was a reality. And then for Olympic trials, I got nervous all over again. And I think it's really easy to doubt yourself, but you can't in this sport. You have to be so confident. So I did, I had a lot of different feelings going on leading up to the trials. But yeah, then eventually after the trials, I was sitting... The day we found out that we knew we were going to get an email to tell us whether or not we made it. And we knew it was coming in the afternoon. So all day, I was just pacing around the house. My dad made me help him build furniture to distract myself. And then... It was the time that the email was coming in, and he was making me help him build this cupboard or something. I can't remember what it was. Like, dad, no!
BEN WATERWORTH: Build this cupboard or you're not going to the Olympics. That sounds like some weird compromise.
KIRSTEN KINASH: He was trying to distract me, I think, but then I got... I opened the email and then I... Yeah, everything was just so exciting. Yeah, and then I called my partner over, and I got to call my relatives and my mum and tell them the news. It was so exciting. So I remember that night, I think, I did a Shoei, went out a little bit, and I behaved myself because I was going to be an Olympian, but it was fun.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, was that Daniel Ricciardo base, or was that just Australian base? I know Daniel Ricciardo made it a little bit more famous, but all Australians have done a Shoei at some point.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I didn't know. I think it was just a weird... So many weird emotions going on in that moment.
BEN WATERWORTH: Was this pre-COVID? Was this before the games were postponed, or was this after the games were postponed?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, it was... So, we had heard about COVID, but no one knew it was going to be such a big thing. I have a photo from that night where there was a glowing Corona sign, and I was like, haha! Like, I took a photo with that sign. It was...
BEN WATERWORTH: Like, so...
KIRSTEN KINASH: It turned out not to be that funny. But we were really lucky, actually, because our team was selected, and we were announced onto the team officially a couple days before everything went into lockdown, and it all went kind of haywire.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which must be mixed emotions then, because we all remember that confusing time, particularly around the Olympics. Australia was the second nation to basically say, no, we're not going. And at that point, obviously, we didn't know if the Olympics were going to be going ahead or postponed, ultimately postponed. So I mean, that must have been a bit of a weird feeling to think that these Olympics could go ahead. You've made the Olympics, but you might not get to compete because Australia said, no, we're not going.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, yeah, that was hard. Yeah, it was kind of crazy, but it was all worth it in the end. I actually think for our team, it ended up being for the best. I always try to see the positive in things and look on the bright side, and all you can do in that situation is just focus on yourself and what you can do. So that's what I did and that's what the team did. And it gave us more time to practise and come together as a team. And throughout that year, some changes happened on the team where different girls realised they couldn't commit to that timeline anymore or things came up. But I think in the end, it all turned out for the best because we ended up with a strong team that really wanted to be there and wanted to fight for it. And we ended up getting a really great coach to lead us into Tokyo. So an extra time to practise. It all turned out for the best, but it was a really wild journey.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which then begs the question, how do you train when COVID is happening, when lockdowns are in place? You obviously, I guess, can't all go on Zoom and sit in the bathtub and pretend to train. I mean, I can imagine of all the sports to train in a COVID lockdown, artistic swimming is probably one of the hardest ones that you can't really do much.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, definitely. That was the hard part. Yeah, I got a little taste of what it was like not to swim in the water every day, and that was weird. I went through days where I was feeling crazy and then days where it was kind of nice. But eventually, as soon as we could, we all moved to Canberra to kind of... We said if there was a lockdown, at least we could lockdown all together. So we moved to the Australian Institute of Sport, where we could just train together. There was a period where we were all on Zoom when we didn't know if the Olympics was going ahead, and we would do land-based training and then just go to our local clubs. But that was really hard as a national team. You can't really train... You can't get that synchronisation aspect. So that was all about just keeping our fitness up and focusing on ourselves. And the skills we needed to do... I learned a lot about myself and what I needed as an athlete. So I think that was the benefit that came out of that. Because in this sport, we're so prone to injury, I used that time to really work with physios and learn about myself and what I needed to improve going into the long training camps. So for example, I sometimes would get back issues that could be quite bad. So a benefit of COVID was I got a lot of time to work on my glutes and work on like my hip strength and things like that, and my ab strength. And I got time to work on that every day. And so then leading into the camps training for the games, I didn't have any back issues, which was like a miracle. So that was really good. I guess a benefit that came out of that individual COVID training is we could use it to work on things we needed to do as individuals.
BEN WATERWORTH: I always love hearing from our guests on the show, particularly the team aspect of it, the team bonding side of things. And I'd be intrigued to see how that helps in artistic swimming, because going back to my point about how you're not in the middle of a routine and you're talking and kind of spurring on, you're almost all doing your own thing as a team in some aspect. But how important is that bonding? How important is going out for a drink one night or sitting around watching Netflix? I don't know, whatever you sort of are doing to bonding to kind of help that team element between all eight of you.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's a really good question, because the cohesiveness of the team is such a big part of our sport, I guess, because you need to... You don't all have to be best friends, but you need a good working relationship. You need to feel, I think the most important part is buy-in from all your teammates. So you need to know that if your teammate gets a correction, they're going to take that correction on board and work really hard to look the same as everyone else. And so I guess, yeah, over the years, some of my teammates have become my best and closest friends. I've been really lucky to have that. And then for our Olympic team, it's difficult because we're training eight hours a day together and living together. It's nonstop. You're seeing these people in the highest stress environment. It's interesting. Everyone has their days and their up and downs, but you learn to work with people so well. And at the end of the day, we're teammates, and you're always there to support each other. So that was really nice. I think you learn what different people's moods and triggers are, and you also learn how to cheer people up or how to be cheered up by your teammates.
BEN WATERWORTH: Or sometimes just piss off, leave me alone. I'm sick of your face. That's the most important is you can see when a teammate does not want to be spoken to. Is there like a thing though, like are you all renowned for, I don't know, going, playing laser tag? You're all a bunch of, you know, artistic swimmers are the biggest party animals. Hit the club on a Saturday night and turn up camera. I mean, is there kind of a thing that you sort of all did together?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Actually, in summer, on some of the camps, we all watched The Bachelor together, so that was really fun.
BEN WATERWORTH: Bonding.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that was a great bonding thing. I mean, I think we all like to go out for a drink, but in the lead up to the games, we tried to stay pretty healthy and focused.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can't imagine a hangover helps in the sport.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Like in the pool, counting shit. That's impossible. Yeah, maybe in my younger days, I would try that for clubs.
BEN WATERWORTH: How old did you say you were? 23? I have a 23 year old on the show saying in my younger days.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, it's just like a hangover on a synchro training camp is impossible. Like you cannot do that.
BEN WATERWORTH: Coach might be stopping that music a few more times. You mentioned the injuries. I'd be actually intrigued to find out like, is it common that all of a sudden you're in the middle of a routine and somebody fucks up and you get kicked in the face? Or like, I can imagine that sometimes if you mistime something, you've got flailing limbs and everything and you can get a couple of bloody noses every now and then.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, actually concussion is one of the most common injuries in our sport. And it's really serious, so that's hard. Like for me on my Olympic journey, I did have to get through one concussion and that was kind of the most difficult injury I've ever had because it affects you so much mentally. And it's hard because there's not anything physically there that you can see, but it does affect you like I couldn't look at my phone at one point without the letters kind of jumbling. It's really weird. So that's a big one, and quite a few girls have had that on the team, but there's all sorts of weird injuries in artistic swimming. Like a lot of people, their inner knees will hurt from all the treading water or hamstring injuries from stretching. That happens when you're a bit younger. All sorts of weird and wild things pop up, but I guess that's with any sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's always fascinating to hear the concussion side of things. I think we were talking about that in with our rhythmic gymnast athletes, that was something that they had experienced too. When you think about concussion in sport, you don't often think about these artistic sports as a concussion-based sport, but I can see how that would be happening. Particularly dangerous if you get knocked out in the middle of a routine, not good in the water.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, you're throwing a girl as high as you can in the air, and then she's landing. And the thing is, with these lifts, you have to be so close to the surface and so close together that it doesn't take much for someone to land in the wrong spot, or you're under the water kicking. Everyone has been kicked in the back of the head hard in their career. It's just something that's inevitable, and you have to just get on with it and keep swimming. But obviously, there are times when concussions happen that you just can't keep going.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's like finding Nemo, just keep swimming, right? That's the motto.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that is the motto.
BEN WATERWORTH: Just on that too, is there a peak age? Is it, say, gymnastics, where as you progress through your teens and then you get to your early 20s, are you now considered, Kirsten, a veteran in terms of the sport, or is it a sport where you can keep going and it's not necessarily that age-based?
KIRSTEN KINASH: It depends. I would say some of the more established countries, they peak a little bit older, in their mid to late 20s, and then that's the cutoff. There are 30-year-olds plus synchronised swimmers.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm in for the chance. Thank you for saying that.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Which is awesome. But yeah, they're a rare, incredible breed. And then other countries, I would say you see a lot of girls drop off as they finish high school, and then the ones who are really serious continue into their early to mid 20s. So it just depends, and it depends on the support of the federation as well, because it's hard in our sport in Australia. Like, you don't get paid to be an athlete, which is fine because I love this sport so much. Like, most girls here do it for the love of the sport, but you do find girls start to finish in their early to mid 20s just because you need to sort of build a future for yourself and support yourself. You can't be an athlete forever, so that's a big part of it too.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's always interesting to look at anybody who goes to an Olympics because I guess people automatically would assume you're an Olympian, you're rich, you're doing this because you make it to the Olympics. But yeah, there's obviously a lot of these sports where kind of that's just not the case. I mean, for every Ariane Titmuss and kind of Kate Campbell, who can easily probably make a living off their careers, yeah, it's obviously the other side of things. So are you working sort of full time then when you're not training eight days a week in the lead up to an Olympics? And how is that balancing, I guess, a work, a study life with sort of training when you're maybe not that close to a competition?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, we have been lucky. We've had a few sponsors who have been super generous and helped us. And also, each state has different funding. So the Queensland Academy of Sport has helped us. And then there's been some outside sponsors that have been super generous. So, yeah, I have to definitely acknowledge them.
BEN WATERWORTH: You can shout out if you want to, if you're allowed to go to plug the sponsors, by all means, go for it.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I'm not sure who I'm allowed to mention, but... Yeah, exactly, we'll leave it at that. But yeah, it's definitely like I've been super lucky throughout this whole journey to be supported by my family, by like parents and grandparents who have helped me out so much. Because there's no way I could afford to like live out of home and afford groceries and my life, as well as all the training fees and the stuff that goes into that. And I've always had like odd like part time jobs. I've had it. I've worked a million weird jobs because you kind of have to find jobs that will be supportive of your career as an athlete as well. It's really hard with Synchro because we have to be all together. So as soon as you find a job, you have to be prepared to tell that job like, oh, by the way, next month, I'm probably going on a month long camp, but I don't know when or like, you just have to cope with me going away. So I've done like every weird job under the sun.
BEN WATERWORTH: What's the weirdest? What's the weirdest you've had?
KIRSTEN KINASH: One summer, this was a fun job, but I got to work as a mermaid in SeaWorld.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, that's not weird. That's awesome.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That's like the best job ever.
BEN WATERWORTH: Come on. Did you actually get to like swim with dolphins and stuff?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah. Well, I jumped in the tank, the shark tank, and swam with the great nurse sharks. So that was really cool. And with the stingrays.
BEN WATERWORTH: Or did you just thought this would be cool? I might just try this today.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, I did get hired to do it. I didn't just rock up there.
BEN WATERWORTH: It wasn't just like, I swim at the mermaid, so I might just try this. I technically am a mermaid. Hey, sharky, let's get in the water. It wasn't just a Thursday or something like that. That's incredible.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That was my best, most incredible job. Yeah, for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: That seems like a seamless transition, though. Olympic artistic swimmer straight into SeaWorld. I feel like the SeaWorld crew should be waiting for you off the plane when you come from Tokyo. Who's going to Paris? You're not, you're not, you're not, you're hired, you're hired, you're hired.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, shout out to them. I'm available if they want me back. Yeah, that was fun. We brought lots of kids into the park that season. But you also have to do a lot of not glamorous jobs. I've done lots of different hospitality, random cleaning jobs. Oh, I've coached kids recreational sports. So that's tied in well to my synchro career. And that's been really fun. I love any coaching job has been great.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, you've got plenty of opportunity, I feel, going forward.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Synchro swimmers perform a lot. One time we were flown out to the outback to do a show.
BEN WATERWORTH: So that was really cool. Wait, like actual outback, like where there's no water? How does that happen?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, like the swimming pool in the outback.
BEN WATERWORTH: Right, okay, I thought you were going to be shoved next to all the room and go, all right, perform. There's no water. Like, what are you talking about?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Wow. Yeah, synchro takes you amazing places.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jeez, just the elements of this. This is insane. What was, in terms of the Olympic experience, outside of the competition, getting to Tokyo, getting to the village, the uniform, not sure if you were able to do the opening ceremony or not. I mean, things like that, like kind of, do you soak it all in? Are you kind of taking it all in when you're walking around or are you that focused on competition that it was something that maybe once you were done, you kind of soaked in a little bit more of that Olympic atmosphere?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, it was, I really, it's a balance. But when I was there, it felt really special immediately. Like, it was kind of like a dream. Yeah, I guess everything was amazing. Like, getting the uniform was really special for me because being like an Aussie-Canadian, actually getting the uniform, the Australian uniform, I felt Australian in that moment. So that was really cool for me. And being a part of the Australian village, like I just, I'm proud to be Canadian, but I also have lived in Australia for so long that I do feel Australian. So once I got the uniform, I'm like, yep, it's official. Like, I'm undeniably Australian. I'm competing for my country. Like, yeah, this is it. I'm an Aussie girl now. And then it's just cool seeing all the amazing athletes walking around. And it's kind of like everyone is so interested in each other because everyone's so cool in the Olympic Village. Like, you just want to know what sport everyone's doing. And obviously everyone loves the food. The dining hall was like, you could have anything you wanted at any time of the day.
BEN WATERWORTH: Did you have a favourite? Was there something that you kept going back to?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, on the last day, I got to go a bit crazy and I had lots of unlimited sushi. But before that, I was so nervous. I would just have the weirdest food combos of anything that I could like stomach. Like I would eat little bits of tofu or just stuff like that. It was kind of hard to eat before my comp, but actually I would say the highlight was getting to interact with like the other high level synchronised swimmers and like the Russian team came up to us in the change room one day. Russia is like the best of the best in our sport. They're incredible and very intimidating because they just work so hard. Even though when you're at these comps, you decide like, I'm top shit too. You have to have confidence in yourself, but every country looks up to Russia. And one of the girls came up to us one day, and she was like, we really like your music. We were like, us? And then they started dancing to Tokyo Drift in the shower with us. And that was highlight of my life. That was a cool moment. Even though we're from such different cultures and have had such different lives, we can connect through our love of the sport. And connect over music. So that was really cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's a great story, though, because I can't think of many other sports where that's going to happen. I mean, the Calgary Flames aren't going to go into Edmonton Oilers' rooms after a game and be like, hey, you did well today. Great song. Let's all dance in the shower together.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That would be a sight, all these hockey players. The Synchro community is just so beautiful because, yeah, we all have such a love of the sport like that. We can all connect through that, which is really cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: Was there a goal when you go into the competition as a team? You mentioned before beating Egypt. Was it beat Egypt? Was it we want to get a certain score? Was it we want to finish in a certain place? And I guess based on the results and how you went, how did you all leave Tokyo feeling?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's a great question. I think everyone had a different goal depending on where they were in their synchro career. For me, because it's a sport where it's not an individual sport, which makes is a great thing usually, but it makes it hard sometimes for goal setting because a lot of things are out of your control. And there was so many hurdles with COVID. So going into the games, my main goal was I wanted a really proud swim. I wanted a swim I could walk away and show my friends and family and swim with pride. So I'm really happy to say that I got that. And it's hard for me. I think all athletes are super self-critical. So it's still hard for me to ever watch my swim and just enjoy watching it. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that because you're always watching things that you could have done better. But I am proud of what we put out in Tokyo. And so I'm glad to say that we got our goal. I think, though, the country overall, our goal is to beat Egypt. And we're working on that. And I'm really excited to see what's coming next. I think the country is just getting stronger and stronger. And yeah, I think we're getting closer to that goal. But that's the next step.
BEN WATERWORTH: How mental-based can it be? Can you kind of put Egypt off? So could you go into the change room and instead of being all nice, like the Russians, and be like, oh, we like your music, could you just walk in there just before they're about to perform and be like, your music's shit, and then just walk out and then put them off their game to really get that mental advantage?
KIRSTEN KINASH: That's it. Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. That's funny to think about. It is a mental sport. I think, like, Australia, I love Team Australia because we always try to be really great sportsmen and, yeah, compete with pride. So we don't like to do those things too much. We try to always just stay really friendly. And if anything, sometimes that puts your team, your competitors off, too, is like, they'll be glaring at you, like, from the other side of the pool, and you just walk past them and say, hey, how are you? Like, you know, like that kind of stuff. But we did find so at Worlds in 2019, Egypt, sorry, New Zealand were our main rivals, and they tried to play all these, like, silly games.
BEN WATERWORTH: Typical Kiwis.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, like when our music time was on, they came to the pool specifically, like, their music time wasn't then at all. And they just sat in the front, in the stadium or whatever, like, sitting there watching. And we just ignored them. We were like, whatever, let them watch. Let them play these games and kind of wear themselves out with this. And we did. And then, like...
BEN WATERWORTH: And then they were watching you at the Olympics because they didn't qualify. Yeah.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah. I love it. Like, some of those girls on that team are great, but when they did that, I was like, oh, competition's on. Like... I love the sass.
BEN WATERWORTH: This is great. This is what I love about it. Kind of it works that way too. But is there... You mentioned sort of when the Russians came to you, is there like the Michael Phelps of artistic swimming? Is there like one athlete that, you know, you all want to be? Like, if they walked into the room, you would like your jaw would drop. I want to get a selfie with them. I want to meet them.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, yeah, like there are so many athletes like that. The most decorated artistic swimmer, her name is Svetlana. I can't pronounce it as well as the Russians can, but whenever we see her, we're like, oh my God. And she used to do a duet with another Svetlana. So there was like Sveti and Sveti, and they would do like a duet. And it was like amazing. Or there's this Spanish athlete, and she's, her name's Ona Carbonell, and she's incredible. She's a soloist, but she's also done duets at the Olympics. And she came back this year after she gave birth, and then kept training, and was just amazing. And now she went to the Olympics as a mother, which is, it's been done before, but that's just so inspiring and great.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's always amazing when any female athlete is able to come back as a mother, but I can imagine, yeah, artistic swimming is one of these ones where it adds even more challenges to it after what it does to your body, essentially, through that process.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, yeah, they're like, it's just cool. Women are incredible.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, absolutely, exactly.
KIRSTEN KINASH: They can bounce back and, yeah, have a kid, and then go dominate in the pool. Like, that's just so cool to see.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, is this Svetlana Romashina? Am I seeing the right person?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's right.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm seeing here, seven Olympic gold medals, 21 World Championship gold. I mean, I'm looking here, according to at least this Wikipedia page, she's won 43 medals at major competitions. All of them are gold. I mean, God sakes, Michael Phelps has won a few silvers and bronze in his career. Like, this woman doesn't know what any other colour is besides gold. This is insane.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, they are just like nuts. It's crazy. And yeah, I guess in artistic swimming, like, you kind of know who's going to medal before you go. And a lot of people sit back and say, oh, that's bias. But when you see them in the pool, you see like they show you that they deserve it. You really see it. So that's incredible.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's what sort of dominance in sport has its pros and cons. But at the end of the day, if you've got that ability to be able to witness greatness, we're going to be talking about those achievements in 20, 30 years time, aren't we? And you had the honour of being in that same pool as they are. So I mean, you got to compete at the peak competition for your sport with the peak athletes of the time. So I mean, that's something you can tell the grandkids about one day.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, it's just it's been so special. Like, we got to see the duet get like received, the Russian duet get their gold medal. And like, I just was pinching myself like, oh, my God, I'm here. Like watching the best athlete in the world get gold. What is this? And like, it was amazing. And maybe that's not the right mindset for an athlete. Like, maybe I should be like, why aren't why aren't we there? Like, you know, but I just I don't see it that way. I think a lot of synchronised swimmers like, yeah, we're working hard to climb the ranks, but we can just appreciate other swimmers' talent and beauty so much that it's just it's a rewarding thing to say, see other athletes who have worked so hard and been hand selected at like six. It's amazing to see them excel and all of that pay off.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, for sure. I'm seeing here too that she's spent two years younger than me, seven Olympic gold medals, yet to get one. So it's plenty of time. You know, we'll see how that goes. Before we close out with a series of sort of fun questions, Kirsten, a couple other things I just want to quickly touch on. You mentioned sort of the duet aspect of it. Is there, you know, are you kind of picked more so to be in the team, or can you kind of alternate? Could you all of a sudden be with one of your teammates, go, hey, we're pretty good together. Let's try out for the duet. Or is that a coaching thing that, you know, focus on the team, don't do both?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's definitely a thing. It's different for everyone. So like, for me, it was like my first games, and I just felt confident as a team athlete. And I think it was more obvious, like, to the coaches and stuff, that that's where I'm suited for the games. But I've done lots of amazing duets throughout my career on, like, more of a national level. And that's been incredible. Yeah, it just depends. Like, I think you look at the team and you need to see who matches together really well, like, who has the same type and length of legs. That's a big deal. And then who can sync really well, synchronise, I mean.
BEN WATERWORTH: The type and length of legs, like, is that just a case of, you just have to, like, the coaches measure you, like, okay, your legs are the same, or they fit together. How does that work?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, you're watching all day, right? They're watching these girls swim. And so it becomes really obvious who would be a good match. And yeah, the girls who did the duet at Tokyo, I think they, coronavirus made it a little bit more complicated. They needed girls who were experienced and had been together. So yeah, the, it's different, it's kind of confusing. Some years there's, like, duet trials. Sometimes they just select it from the team. It's always different. This year we had, in 2019 we had girls' trial for the duet. And then one of the girls retired. So they brought in a duet reserve who was selected from the Olympic team. And she, they matched well. Yeah, so it just depends, but think our duets are usually, who looks really good together, like they could be a mirror image of each other.
BEN WATERWORTH: Speaking of looking good, you showed me before the interview, you had your costumes behind you. And I mean, it looks absolutely amazing. Are they handcrafted? Because I can imagine that the work that gets put into any of the costumes is a lot of effort. And I mean, how important is that when it comes to designing? Like how much of a say? Because I can imagine that as a performer, you kind of want to kind of have a say in how amazing you guys are going to look out there in the pool during an Olympic Games.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, that's such a good question. So like our swimsuit designer listened to the music, or we kind of told her the themes that we had in our mind. So like for our avatar routine, she purposely did like a fire and water sort of design. And sometimes we try to incorporate like Australian colours as well. So that's what we did with our technical routine. Yeah, it doesn't actually affect the score, the togs, but you want to look good. And you need togs that are like, it is important that they're the right cut. So you want them to be cut high on your hips so that when you're doing a body boost, you can show as much skin out as possible. And it's always a perk if there's like skin colour near your hips too, because then the judges in that split second of the moment might be like, Oh, is she that high? Like, it's hard to tell. And I always in training, hike my togs up too if I'm doing like, if I know the coach is really going to be watching me, I'll give myself a bit of a wedgie.
BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, you're not pulling it out, so it may as well be up there at the beginning. Go for it.
KIRSTEN KINASH: High neck helps as well because it shows, it makes you look like you're eggbeatering higher out of the water. Yeah, there's a lot to that. And then obviously there's like a million sequins on our togs too. And I have no patience. I'm like not patient for all that like girly stuff. So I've had, it's been so nice. My mum loves sequining togs. So over the years, she sequins so many beautiful swimsuits. Like I've always had the most stunning sequence because of her. A couple of times I've had to do it because I need to grow up and just do my own, right? But I have been like, sometimes you iron on these little crystals, and I get so frustrated. Like one day I was ironing on these little crystals, and I was like watching a movie with my partner, and I bumped the ironing board, and the crystals I'd spent an hour placing before I'd iron them down just went everywhere. And I just started yelling at these stupid togs, and I was just like...
BEN WATERWORTH: Your partner's gone, I just need to go somewhere for the next 10 minutes.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, and he's so amazing. He was like, what's wrong? He came, and then next thing I know, I'm sitting on the couch watching the movie, and my boyfriend is ironing on these crystals.
BEN WATERWORTH: Hey, there you go. Let's be honest, Kirsten, you did it deliberately to test him. You're like, okay, let's see how good he is. Oops, oh, I knocked the crystals over. Oh, I'm upset. I might sit down and have a rest. Oh, do you want to try?
KIRSTEN KINASH: He did a really good job, too. Almost too good. I should ask him to do it all the time, but he was really proud, too, because then when he saw me compete, he was like, I did those crystals.
BEN WATERWORTH: It was part of that Olympic journey. Did they fall off in the pool? Do they have to be a certain type of glue or sewing so they don't fall off?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, at the end of a synchro comp, it's funny, if it's a local comp, I usually like to dive in because you can find a bunch of nose clips on the bottom that have fallen off for free. I usually go nose clip diving at the end of a Nationals or whatever.
BEN WATERWORTH: And you want to use them? Have they not been up by other people's noses, though?
KIRSTEN KINASH: They sit on the top, so it's fine, but when you're down there, you notice a lot. The pool is usually pretty shiny. You get glue that's really strong, or you sew the sequins on really tight, but obviously you're like... There's a lot of stuff happening, so sequins always fall off, or your hair falls out. That's a big part of our sport, too.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because I don't know if this is an awkward question, but with the slow-mo, and you're saying about how you're watching yourself, because the one thing I will say for the slow-mo aspect of it, though, is it can give some awkward angles. And with what you're wearing, it's kind of a bit like, oh, OK. It's like whenever you see the slow-mo of water polo, they're always focused on the underwater thing, when the athletes are grabbing it at each other's areas just to kind of put them off. So I can imagine sometimes watching it, you're going, OK, well, the costume could have maybe not ridden that high in that aspect. A bit awkward angle sometimes.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I mean, I'm not embarrassed by that stuff. I just kind of embrace, like I'm so used to it now being like captured on camera at every angle in the most unflattering positions. I'd say Synchro definitely isn't a sport as great on like on camera, like photos of the sport. You always get weird athlete faces or water flying out of your mouth. Like, I love Synchro so much more on video.
BEN WATERWORTH: They're the fun ones. It's kind of like when they had that meme that happened many years ago where it was divers faces mid-dive, and they literally would sit them on a toilet because their faces were so like, it looked so awkward. But I sometimes think that's fun. The cool, the water though, like when the slo-mo, those super slo-mos I have on the video, when the water is like screaming off your hair, like it looks awesome.
KIRSTEN KINASH: I'm so proud because at the end of the games, I guess people go through all the Getty images to like make memes. And I became a meme. I made it in life. There was the most awkward photo. They like took an aerial shot of a lift. And so because I'm like underneath the lift kind of peering out, you can see my face. And everyone else looked so beautiful and normal, like pushing for this lift. And my face was stretched. So I got it like appeared on all these like meme accounts on Instagram. And like that's one of those moments you could choose to be embarrassed. But I just chose to have a laugh about it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Becoming a meme in 2021 is like the goal, right? That's what you want. I need to see this. I think you need to share it. We'll put it on our account.
KIRSTEN KINASH: We need to send it to you. All these strangers, not strangers, but people I went to high school with or whatever who I hadn't spoken to in years were sending it to me. They're like, is this you? And I'm like, oh God, yes.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's crazy.
KIRSTEN KINASH: You train all your life, right? And then you get the most scene for having like this morphed double chin face.
BEN WATERWORTH: Eight hours a day, like months of endless training. You make an Olympic Games and all people remember you for is a face.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, exactly. Like this alien shot, but I'll send it to you. I'm proud of it now.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's good. That's the main thing. And before we get to these questions as well, the standard stock standard question I've got to ask every athlete on this show that's come from Tokyo, Paris 2024. Is it on the cards? Is it something you're looking towards? Or is it something you're not even thinking about right now?
KIRSTEN KINASH: So yeah, while I'm like madly in love with this sport, and it's going to the Olympics was the best experience of my life hands down. I think synchro is something that you should be all in or don't do it. Like I think I've given it some time, but I'm just I'm ready to start doing other things with my life, like to continue doing uni. I'm six years into a three year degree. So I'm really. And while I think there's no rush, and synchro doing sport is definitely worth it. I'm just ready to move on to some of those goals in my life now, and to maybe do some coaching and yeah, get some more weird and wild part time jobs. But my synchro journey isn't over. Yeah, right. Exactly. Seaworld call me.
BEN WATERWORTH: So what's studying? Whatever you're studying right now, what would you like to sort of push towards?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I'm doing a public health degree, which became very relevant in 2020. Yeah, so I'd love to graduate from that. And then I want to move on to speech pathology. I'd love to do a masters of that and become a speech pathologist, or maybe work in the public health sector for a few years first. We'll just see where life takes me, kind of. And then obviously, I want to keep coaching. I want to coach at a recreational level. Kids, I love coaching the tiny kids, how to do the most basic, synchronous skills. I think it's really special to pass on that kind of stuff. And they just make your day so interesting. They're so funny.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, you could be useful, then, for this show moving forward. So speech, you can help us talk and learn how to say things on this show. And then also, yeah, my synchro journey. So I'll get you out of retirement again to do that Star Wars theme.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to Star Wars 2.
BEN WATERWORTH: So Paris. Now, as we wrap up every interview with a series of kind of fun, get to know your questions. Now, these are actually off a Team Canada website. So before Rio and Pyeongchang, they gave their athletes a questionnaire, sort of a get to know you style thing. Sadly, at least they didn't publish it on their website. They didn't publish any artistic swimmers back in Rio. So I've chosen a swimmer because it's the closest thing I could get. There's always a drawing element to this, Kirsten, if you really want to. You don't have to. We've had two bobsledders send in their drawings. So if, you know, you do feel like... So the first one here is draw a picture of yourself. So if you feel like doing some homework, draw a picture of yourself and send it in, and we'll publish it.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Sure, I would love to do that.
BEN WATERWORTH: We haven't had a summer athlete do it yet. So come on, let's go team summer.
KIRSTEN KINASH: It won't be good, but it'll be interesting.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's fine. This show isn't good, but you're on it. So it kind of works very well. The first question for you today, the best candy in the world is?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, that's a good one. Let's see. I love chocolate. Does that count?
BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely.
KIRSTEN KINASH: For the Canadians out there, I love cherry blasters. Those are very good.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, I know those. Okay, I like that. Your favourite sandwich is?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, I think peanut butter and jelly.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, classic. Can't go past it. I always get very interested in the bread. Are you a specific bread? White, multigrain, wholemeal, sourdough, anything in particular?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, if I'm being naughty and it's a PB&J, then just white bread, and preferably really good crust, or no crust at all.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm a sucker for the crust. The crust can make or break a good sandwich, right? Yeah. When it's fresh and it's very crusty. Your favourite sports movie is?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I think Cool Runnings. That's great. They're so inspiring.
BEN WATERWORTH: Calgary setting as well. Is there any synchro movies out there that we should be aware of?
KIRSTEN KINASH: A lot of people have made smaller synchro documentaries. There's a lot out there. I think there's one called Synchro Swim from quite a few years back. But yeah, I think we need a mainstream, massive synchro movie.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's a sport that I feel warrants a movie. It's kind of like with everything that we've learned today and how difficult it is. I mean, how many boxing movies? They just punch each other.
KIRSTEN KINASH: There's a lot of men, like male, synchro things out there that people have sent me over the years. But I don't think they capture the sport right. They kind of make a little bit of a joke out of it, or show like men being funny in the water. But in my experience, I've seen men working so hard at the sport doing really well. And like, obviously, the women too, who work so hard. So we need more of that good image for our sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, in all seriousness, I think it would help, because I mean, two things stand out to me growing up about sort of synchro and the comedy side of things in Australia. I don't know if you remember the show The Chasers War and Everything, but they had a skit where they had two of their male comedians kind of trying out for the synchro team and they were making a big joke about it. And then back, you would probably have been about two, if my calculations are correct, during the Sydney Olympics. There was Roy and HG, a comedic duo, kind of had this show called The Dream. And a lot of what got them really popular during the Sydney Olympics is they did sort of comedy commentary over the sport, and they did synchronised swimming. So when you watch our commentary, I guess, trying to emulate Roy and HG, not as successfully because they were funny. So it's almost that comedic element that the sport kind of has. So I want this mainstreamness out there to kind of paint the sport a little bit better.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, for sure. I mean, synchro is a weird sport. It's like hilarious. So I'm okay if people are making funny commentary about it. But yeah, it's also nice to spread awareness that it's hard. We work hard.
BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly. Very, very hard. If you could have lunch with any one person, who would it be?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Well, I was really lucky this year. I'm going to butcher the pronunciation of this.
BEN WATERWORTH: You're on Off The Podium. That's my job every single episode. So by all means, join in the butchering of pronunciations. It fits well.
KIRSTEN KINASH: My answer to this was always the writer of Mal's Last Dancer, Li Shi Shen. It's pronounced something like that. He's just this amazing ballerina who came from Communist China, and now he's the director of the Queensland Ballet. And I got to meet him this year, and I was like, that was always my answer to questions like this that I would have. And you got to meet him. Yeah, I was crying. I was trying not to. He gave us a talk and some advice about competing at a high level, and I just soaked up everything he said because he's a genius. He's worked so hard in his career. So yeah, that's my answer.
BEN WATERWORTH: Easy. I like it. Now, the next drawing for you, and this fits in very well, because usually I have to tailor this, because often we've got Australian guests on, but you're half Canadian, half Australian. Draw a picture of a Canadian animal. So there you go. There's your second homework. So I'm guessing this is a Canadian geese. It looks either that or a weird dinosaur. I don't actually know what they've drawn in this picture, but yeah, anyway, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, I really, Morocco is on my bucket list. I really want to go there. So yeah, I guess that's when all this is over.
BEN WATERWORTH: You could be the head coach of the Moroccan artistic swimming team. I don't know how big the scene is in Morocco. No offence if they're really good, but you never know.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That would be cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. Now, I know the answer to this, but I want you to say it because any excuse to talk about them. As a kid, your favourite sports team were?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I love the flames.
BEN WATERWORTH: Just on the routine, I'm thinking Battle of Alberta. You could kind of just have you all like beaten up Edmonton in the pool, or recreate the bullshit that was the 2004 Stanley Cup Finals. It was a goal. So therefore, you could just stick the middle finger up to the Tampa Bay Lightning because we're all sick of them winning. So there's some extra routines you can have for free.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh my gosh, that's great. I'll think about those ones.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I'm not bitter against Tampa Bay. It's been 17 years, but I'm not bitter. Let's just say that. Your favourite workout is?
KIRSTEN KINASH: I like, I find it a really good stress release just going for a run. I love putting on like dramatic music and just like running at my own pace, however I want. Sometimes I like get crazy. If I'm really into the music, I'll start to sprint, and then I'll like do a really slow snail pace jog for a while. It's fun.
BEN WATERWORTH: How dramatic are we talking here? Is this like Jewel of the Fates, Star Wars? Like, I mean, kind of like what's going on?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, like Beyonce kind of stuff, like super girly.
BEN WATERWORTH: That works. I like it. It says anytime for Beyonce, right?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, exactly.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's the excuse. Next drawing, here's your third one. The coolest Olympic medal. And I should say the athlete I'm using here is Santo Condorelli, and he's drawn a picture of what looks like a medal with a fish in water. I guess he's a swimmer. So that works. I don't know what you could have for an artistic medal. The Star Wars Darth Vader. Easy answer, right? That kind of works. If you could choose any Olympic host city, where would it be?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Gold Coast. Definitely. I'm so excited for Brisbane in 2032. I'm just pumped. It was so exciting to get that news while I was in Tokyo. Yeah, that was awesome.
BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, look, just saying, you might not be going to Paris, but then you've still got another eight years after that to kind of get back into it. So Home Olympics gets you out there.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, well, I want to help the girls coming up into that, or maybe be a... My dream would be to do some type of public health event work around that game, so that would be really cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: Perfect timing. I think it can work. I love this question. When you were little, what was one thing you always thought?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, like a quirky thing?
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, Santo's written here that Santo was real.
KIRSTEN KINASH: That's amazing. Oh, I thought the Olympics... When I was really little, I thought the Olympics was like a circus, like a travelling... And I remember asking... My mum doesn't remember this, but I asked her whether the athletes got lonely and like missed their parents.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, can you answer that question now? Is that... Yeah.
KIRSTEN KINASH: I mean, I think we're too busy having fun, but we definitely miss home.
BEN WATERWORTH: I like that. I like that. Final question. If you could have any superpower, what would it be?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Oh, teleportation, for sure.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes. Great answer.
KIRSTEN KINASH: I think that's a popular one. No, I changed it. Breathing underwater. That would make my life so much easier.
BEN WATERWORTH: That would be perfect. So does that mean that Aquaman would be fantastic at synchro? Is Jason Momoa just maybe the best athlete out there that we just don't know about yet because he hasn't competed in the Olympics?
KIRSTEN KINASH: Shout out to Jason Momoa.
BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely.
KIRSTEN KINASH: We love to give him a synchro lesson.
BEN WATERWORTH: Every single episode should be. Just shout out to Jason Momoa. I'm not taking away from how good you all look at the Olympics. You all look fantastic. But I mean, come on, Jason Momoa at an Olympic Games. I think we're all watching.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I think him in a budgie smuggler might bring some traction to the sport.
BEN WATERWORTH: I just want him to every single time he finishes his routine, just, you know, seductively look into the camera and be like, permission to come aboard. Like absolute like winning there. You may have gone viral with your one photo. Jason Momoa just does that. Absolutely perfect. Indeed. Now, because before we let you go, social media, where can people follow you? And also, you said to me, Off Air, that you wanted to give a shout out. And I want to give you the opportunity to give a shout out, because I don't want to let you go without sending shout outs to people.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Yeah, I want to say hi to my grandma, who's probably listening to this on a walk. She's from Creston, DC. So hi, Hertha. And obviously to all my family and other extended, my other grandparents, I don't want them to get jealous. And my parents and everyone who's helped me on the Olympic journey. That was really special. But yeah, people can find me on Instagram. Please follow me for more. Maybe I'll become another meme star.
BEN WATERWORTH: Come on, memes galore.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Exactly. I'm Kirsten underscore Kinash. It's probably spelled however it's spelled in the podcast title.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'll make sure I spell it correctly this time. I'll use spell check to make sure that people can find you. Kirsten, seriously, it has been so much fun to chatting with you today to learn about your journey and the sport. I have learnt so much. I seriously am going to leave this interview, and I feel like I need to review my awkward commentary, which I will send you. But I also will get to the pool. I'll start training, and I'll see you in Paris. I'll start bringing the Star Wars. And just send a shout out to Jason Momoa. Hey, Natalie Portman. We're using half of your character in the routine. Come along and watch us. I'll gladly show you around Paris. That sounded awkward, but hey, I'll go with it.
KIRSTEN KINASH: Thanks so much, it's been great talking to you, Ben.
BEN WATERWORTH: And a massive thanks to Kirsten. They're a lot of fun. And wow, I'm just blown away with just how difficult the sport is and how incredible athletes they all are. Also glad to know that male artistic swimming is a thing. So again, it gives me hope, and I will start practising my Star Wars routine and be ready for Paris in 2024. So definitely looking forward to that. But big thanks again to Kirsten for her time. As always, we've got plenty of interviews coming your way, plenty of great episodes. The best way to stay up to date with all of them, search Off The Podium on social media, we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook. And of course, if you want to subscribe to the show, all good podcasts are found. Search Off The Podium, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts. That's the one I'm trying to think of. I Heart Radio, we're on all of them. So search for us on there and leave us some feedback, leave us a rating. We'd love to hear what you think of the show. So we appreciate you listening. We appreciate you joining us with all these great episodes and learning these great stories from all these great athletes. Big thanks again to Kirsten for tuning in. Big thanks to everybody, well, for joining me, I should say. And big thanks to you for tuning in. That makes sense. See, we learnt earlier that she's gonna be teaching speech and the speech pathologist is where she's gonna help. Moving forward, we might actually be able to say something proper for once on this show. Thanks to everyone for tuning in. My name is Ben, this is Off The Podium. Special shout out to Jason Momoa, and as always, go left.
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