Greta Small Interview
We’re back into the cold of winter today as we bring you an amazing chat with two-time Australian Olympian in the sport of Alpine Skiing, Greta Small! We learn from Greta how having plastic skis strapped to her feet at the age of two helped her on a journey to being a two-time Olympian and just what other unique sports she participated in as a child. We also learn more about her experiences at the first ever Winter Youth Olympics in 2012 and how that lead to a meeting with the IOC President Thomas Bach (Olympic Champion, Fencing). Added to this we learn about what prize she won for winning a race that is maybe the greatest prize ever won by an athlete and just how she is tracking ahead of the 2022 Olympics. It’s an epic chat that you will want to listen to over and over again, so get to it!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast coming to you again today for another interview episode. I'm so excited for today's guest, Greta Small, Australian alpine skier, two-time Olympian from Sochi and Pyeongchang on the cusp of her third Olympics in Beijing. Can you believe, only our second ever alpine skier on this show? We haven't had an alpine skier on since Zali Stegall back a few years ago, and you'll hear me talk a little bit about that in the intro with Greta in just a moment. But this is such a fun chat from Greta, learning about how she got into the sport, having skis strapped on her feet as a two-year-old, right through to competing on the world stage, the Youth Olympics. She was a flag bearer for Australia in the inaugural Winter Youth Games back in Innsbruck in 2012. So some great stories there. And the family connection to the Youth Olympics too. Another small went on to great things at the Youth Olympics in 2018. So we talked a little bit about that. There's discussions here about meeting Thomas Bach and what he was like. The Super G in Pyeongchang with a certain Ester Ledecka winning and what that was like as well. And you will hear a story about maybe the greatest prize ever won for winning any sporting event in the world. It is such a fun story, and I know you are going to love it. This is a great chat. Sit back and listen to our chat with two-time Olympian, Greta Small.
BEN WATERWORTH: These are our guest lists on Off The Podium. We've had guests from many different sports across both summer and winter Olympics. And it's actually surprised me when I went through who we've had on the show that we haven't had somebody from Alpine Skiing on, since back when we had the legendary Zali Stegel on. But we're about to break that now and get somebody from the great sport of Alpine Skiing. She's Australia's premier Alpine skier right now, competed at two Olympics in 2014 and 2018, and is on track to go to 2022 in Beijing. I'm so excited to learn more about her career and how she's tracking ahead of her third Olympic Games. Please welcome to the show, Greta Small. Greta, first of all, it's a pleasure to have you on Off The Podium today.
GRETA SMALL: Thanks, Ben. No, good to chat today.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's exciting, because I love Alpine Skiing, and it's always baffling to me that I look through the guests and I'm like, yeah, I clearly remember interviewing Zali. That was a bit of a starstruck moment for me. And then all of a sudden I'm like, wait, we haven't covered the sport since then. What's wrong with us? It was Alpine skiing, Winter Olympics, that's where it's all that right, isn't it, Greta?
GRETA SMALL: Absolutely, downhill skiing's the blue ribbon event of the Winter Olympics, so yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: We gotta tick them all off there basically. But I love your story about how you got into skiing. I love this idea of you as a two-year-old with a couple of plastic skis strapped onto your feet, kind of almost like it was destiny that this is what you were going to take up as a career. What was it? Did your parents just kind of want to put some skis on your feet and go, see how this goes? I mean, kind of, how do you get some skis on your feet as a two-year-old?
GRETA SMALL: I think, yeah, at two years old, you just sort of snow play, and it's just being in the snow, and it's really your balance and all that kind of thing. I mean, growing up, my parents were involved in ski industry up at Mount Hotham. So I was lucky to spend winters a couple of weeks a year up at the lodge, up at Mount Hotham. And yeah, so I learned to ski at a young age, and I was taught and skied with both my parents. So that's sort of how it started, but I didn't really consider it as a sport. I did a lot of different sports growing up, and a lot of dance and arts and various things recreationally. And I didn't actually start skiing until, yeah, I went in the inter-schools from year four, and then I picked it up from that really when I first started racing. So, yeah, I was pretty late starting compared to like, yeah, other people in the sport had already been at race club, since I was six years old and stuff, and I didn't pick it up till I was 10, 11 years old to sort of give it a go then. So, yeah, I just always loved just skiing.
BEN WATERWORTH: What were some of the other sports you mentioned there that you were sort of involved in growing up?
GRETA SMALL: I did a fair bit of gymnastics and trampolining, school, netball, ball sports weren't really my forte. I did quite a bit of dance. I did jazz dancing, tap dancing, and I was pretty into music. So I played the violin and the piano. So that was kind of growing up. Yeah, I wasn't definitely at school. I wasn't like first picked for sporty teams or anything like that. I mean, I was generally average at everything, but I wasn't ever like a super standout where they're like, oh, that kid's super athletic.
BEN WATERWORTH: She's not gonna be a two-time Olympian one day, basically. People were saying that maybe to you in some of those sports, essentially.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I mean, I think gymnastics was kind of, I naturally had balanced spatial awareness or those kind of things, but I just didn't take to it. I didn't have a real passion or love for it, I guess. And different sports come with different social aspects, I guess, as well at that age. Being different friend groups, being really important. And I think, especially in some of those group sports, if you don't have the right friends or the right couple of kids around you to, I guess, motivate you. But I mean, because it's six years old, if your best friend or whatever's not going to play footy or go play the sport you wanna do, well, you're not really as motivated to do it. And I guess that never, I was super into different, like I did circus for one, I did circus training for one year and I did gymnastics and trampolining and I was the only sort of kid at my school doing different things like that. And then, yeah, I mean, that all helped towards skiing and it was all, yeah, I had very good balance and spatial awareness and that kind of thing. But yeah, just never had the same love and passion like I did and I felt like when I was skiing.
BEN WATERWORTH: I like the idea of circus performing, like that kind of, I mean, was that, how fun is that to do circus? You know, I can't imagine that would be boring at all.
GRETA SMALL: Oh, I was lucky enough, so I went to school in Aubrey and there's a fruit fly circus school there. So that was when I first started. And I just gave that a go for a little bit, but yeah, then I thought that was a little bit weird, but yeah, no, I can still, I can ride a unicycle and struggle and like climb a rope and I don't know, do different stuff, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jeez, I'm seeing Olympic Village, you could be just busking out there and sort of the court really entertain people. Hard day of competing at the Olympics. Look at me, I'm on a unicycle, I'm juggling. Come on, Greta, take these skills to the next level.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I think you'd be surprised. We had some international kids come over to our house and they randomly, they had to stay at our house overnight because the mountain got snowed in up to Hotham one year. And I had my unicycle sitting in the garage and one of the boys, you know, 25-year-old, just like whips it out and starts riding around in the backyard. So you'd actually be pretty surprised like how many skiers, you know, we do slacklining and we did, I don't know, just all weird, different stuff to basically, yeah, challenge. And I think this year, oh, I'm super excited. I got into bouldering a little bit this year.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, nice.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I knew like some of my friends had done it overseas and then I was training up at the AIS in Canberra and then got super into block house up in Canberra when I found out about that. So every Friday after training to get into like a 13th, 14th session, I'd go for two hours, just go bouldering by myself. Yeah, I like different things like that, just to give it a go and challenge yourself. Yeah, as I said, ball sport's not really my thing that, yeah, I think I got hit in the face with a tennis ball when I was like three, four years old. So I think that might've mentally scarred me.
BEN WATERWORTH: Scarred you for life.
GRETA SMALL: So I'm more into those weird off beat. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I just like the mental challenge of like doing a slack line or learning a new skill. Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: I like that. I like that. It's kind of, it's interesting sort of when we speak to the guests on the show and sort of hear what sports they were doing when they were younger and kind of how that transition into the sport they ultimately go to compete in the Olympics at. It's sort of always that diversity. But I mean, you mentioned gymnastics and trampolining. The obvious question is, was aerial skiing ever kind of on the cards? You could already ski, you could sort of do these tricks. I mean, was that something that you potentially thought about?
GRETA SMALL: No, definitely not. I was not at a gymnastics level to do. I mean, of what they're doing, I mean, I'd recreationally skied, and that was really where my passion for alpine skiing and downhill skiing started. And with my parents' background in the sport at a club level, that sort of, I guess maybe mogul skiing might have been, could have been all right at mogul skiing. But yeah, I guess when I started racing and that love of just skiing fast and putting it all out on the hill sort of took me, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Because it's fascinating with alpine skiing and Australia's history with it, because I guess on our Winter Olympic history, we think about freestyle skiing. We think about snowboarding. They're kind of the sports in which we're meddling in. And you sort of look outside of that, speed skating, obviously we've won medals in, and of course with Zali's medal in Nagano with alpine. But the fascinating thing I found out about you, Greta, sort of in researching this interview that you, Australia hadn't had an alpine skier in females in female alpine skiing since 2002, when I believe we had six skiers in Salt Lake, and then it took all the way through to Sochi until obviously yourself and Lavina sort of went out there and competed. So I mean, and Emily as well, sorry. So it's fascinating to think that there was that 12 year process that kind of took that. I mean, kind of what was the sport like when you were sort of really getting into it then? Was it lacking numbers? Were kind of it was up on the up again? Why was it alpine skiing went that long without a female competitor for Australia at the Olympics?
GRETA SMALL: I think I sort of missed that. I think a lot of sports, especially small niche sports like Australia, they definitely come in generations. And in terms of like even overseas, you see, you know, year groups, certain year groups and sort of generations come in, come in strengths, because I mean, there's sort of, when someone's at the top, that sort of helps others come through in that participation level to push the whole group through to a better level and achieve more. Basically, I think the 2012 Olympic team was off the back of Zali's win. So a lot of all that funding for that big team that they sent through was all the funding that had come through the 90s and still off the back of the Sydney Olympics as well. That was for the 2002. And yeah, winter sport in Australia was a totally different landscape in 2002 versus now. I mean, all the snowboard and freestyle events didn't even exist back then. So that was where a lot more funding and money was going towards those sports. And then, yeah, with Xylee's retirement. And then in 2002, yeah, we had AJ, Jono and Craig Branch coming through. And they were, you know, they're in top 30 World Cup in men's alpine skiing. But yeah, obviously there weren't any women coming through. And they went to Vancouver, through to Reno in Vancouver. And that sort of, yeah, when I was growing up, there wasn't any top female skiers at that level to look up to. But I mean, they still had really strong development teams and they did have strong, yeah, you know, they had the AJ, Jono and Craig at the top level that were on the Olympic Winter Institute and were at the top skiing on World Cups. So I remember going to World Cup and seeing those guys raced. So I think was still that representation on World Cup then. And then once they, you know, retired after Vancouver, there was sort of a gap there, yeah, till the Aussies got back on the World Cups.
BEN WATERWORTH: When you started taking it up sort of more seriously and making teams go into competitions and everything, was the Olympics sort of that end goal? I mean, had you always harboured an ambition as an athlete growing up to get to an Olympics? Or did this sort of only become a realisation when you did start going to World Cups and events that, hey, I could make an Olympic team based on how I'm going right now?
GRETA SMALL: Good question. I think growing up and when I got into the sport and the first season I went over to Europe and what went to my first World Cups in person, like just as a spectator, because I guess for your info and like for people that don't follow alpine skiing, in Europe we rock up to a World Cup and there's between 20 and 50,000 spectators. It's basically like a massive festival as beer tents, beer sponsors, half the crowd's drunk at 10.30 in the morning. It's a big vibe. Like the Euro's, like the Central Europeans, the Swiss, the Austrians, they do ski racing. Like nobody else does. I mean, it's their winter footy. Everyone will go from the city, you'll catch the train and go to the skiing for the weekend. That's sort of the equivalent. So I guess once I'd seen all the World Cup as a kid, I was like, wow, I want to be racing here. I want to be like, these guys are rock stars in Europe. So that's sort of, I think my passion started watching World Cup and my ultimate goal from when I was 12 years old was always to win a Crystal Globe. It was actually the best. So at the end of a World Cup season, the best skier over the whole season.
BEN WATERWORTH: One of the best looking sports trophies in the world. That is an amazing looking sports trophy.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, it's pretty, I mean, it's literally Swarovski Crystal Glow, and it's literally a World Globe. So it's pretty cool. So as a 12 year old kid looking at that trophy, I was like, I want to get that one day. And that meant that wasn't just to be the best at one event. That was, I had to be good for the whole season, not just a one-off race. And for the Olympics, my passion for the Olympics really started back in 2011 for selection for the 2012 Youth Olympics. So yeah, I mean, Olympics was sort of, oh, it would be nice to go, but I didn't really understand the concept and sort of the values that the Olympics have until I went to the Youth Olympics in 2012.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which you're actually our only second guest to have gone to a Youth Olympics and actually our first Winter Youth Olympic guest, which I'm fascinated by the Youth Olympics because I love the Youth Olympics. I think they're a great idea and they're always exciting to watch. And you were the flag bearer. You were Australia's first ever Youth Olympic Winter flag bearer, which in itself an honour. But I mean, does that help? How much did that help you sort of, as you're saying there, understand not only the Olympic values and everything, but I guess prepare you for a full, a senior Olympics, which you went to only two years later. I mean, I can imagine that is a big help to kind of give you a taste of that before you then go to Sochi two years later.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, absolutely. That was sort of after basically, when I was at Youth Olympics, I was like, in two years time, I'm gonna be in Russia. I'm gonna be in Sochi for the Olympics. So that was like, I remember myself and Lucy Glanville, one of the biathlon athletes that I've roomed with at Youth Olympics. On the last day, I was like, we made a promise. I was like, we're both gonna be in Sochi Olympics competing, and then we were. So that was pretty cool. Yeah, I think there's a big cultural and learning education aspect at the Youth Olympics that you don't get at a Senior Olympics. And there's all these activities, and that's how you get to meet people. And you can imagine 14 to 18 year olds, a few thousand 14 to 18 year olds getting together. It's pretty cool. And just that energy is really cool. And that's sort of, yeah, getting nominated as the flag bearer but from Alyssa Kaplan was such an honour. And yeah, I think all the other aspects at the Youth Olympics, I was really excited with and it was cool. And I was, but I was quite disappointed with my competition. Even now I like reflect back and I'm like, oh, it still hurts a little bit. Cause I went in ranked second in the world in the Super G and yeah, had a mistake and ended up in seventh on that run, even though I was in first place until halfway. So that, yeah, that's still that, yeah, ski racing.
BEN WATERWORTH: We shouldn't have brought it up. We shouldn't bring up the Youth Olympics.
GRETA SMALL: We'll miss for some time, but you live and you learn. And you know, so yeah, Sochi was big experience to be only a handful of athletes that went to the first ever Winter Youth Olympics and then two years later, go onto Sochi was really cool. So yeah, after that, I became a Winter Ambassador for the Youth Olympics for the IOC. So that was really cool to have some opportunities in the Olympic movement to meet the president, Thomas Bach in Sochi. And then again, an opportunity to go to the Youth Olympics in Lillehammer and then the summers in Buenos Aires was really awesome.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which just quickly on that, it's a family tradition, the Youth Olympics, isn't it? Your cousin Keely carried the flag and went on to win a gold there too. So I mean, this is like the small family tradition of the Youth Olympics. Let's carry the flag everyone.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I was so proud of Keely to get over there and to see her do that in person was awesome.
BEN WATERWORTH: I need to ask quickly, how is Thomas when you meet him? We love Thomas on this show because first of all, we always need to mention that Olympic champion fencing. He always has to have that name announced every time he walks into a room, I feel. And also he likes to talk and I still think his speech is finishing up from Tokyo. So, do you get a word in with Thomas when you try and have a bit of a chat with him?
GRETA SMALL: Well, I've only met him, I've met him twice. And then once in a formal setting, yeah, at the Sochi Olympics. And then the second time in Pyeongchang, he just like rocks up at the dining hall and starts walking around. And then some athletes like come up to him. So I was one of those athletes to run up to him and like, well, pre-COVID shake his hand and say, hey, cause I was like, so yeah, I guess, yeah, I don't know. I like putting myself out there and yeah, I guess, yeah, I'm proud to represent skiing in Australia as an Australian Olympian and all that that means.
BEN WATERWORTH: The one thing I love hearing from particular winter athletes, because I mean, look, I always say, Greta, that winter Olympics are the real Olympics. Let's be honest. And these are some amazing sports. And just that vibe and that adrenaline you're feeling, can you take us through the feeling of a downhill? Because you're obviously pulling some incredible speeds. You're doing some amazing things. It is one of the most incredible events you will watch at either summer or winter Olympics. But what is that feeling like from top to bottom when you're doing an Olympic downhill?
GRETA SMALL: Well, I think it depends on the course. I mean, the course in Sochi and in Pyeongchang was so different. I really enjoyed the course in Pyeongchang. But I mean, there's some, I mean, it's just, there's some gnarly sections. I mean, at the start in Pyeongchang, if you've seen any of the footage from that, they called it like the devil's spine. And it's literally like off cam bar. So if, yeah, people, you can't put a grooming cat on it. It's that steep and off terrain. So it's just essentially side slipped and it's bumpy. And it's, yeah, it's insane. Like, I don't know how my ski didn't pop off on that. When you see the slow mo, and then there's about five, seven jumps in there. Pyeongchang was relatively a slow, we were only going 110, averaging 100 to 105 kph to 110, versus like some other races. So World Champs this year, we reached speeds of 130 on a shoot.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's insane. I stepped on skis once, it lasted five seconds, I'm like, this isn't for me. I cannot imagine doing 130 kilometres. I don't even know if I do 130 kilometres in my car, Greta. That's why I say that on air, just to clarify that. But I mean, when you get started in the sport, I mean, was this, you're obviously not imagining doing 130 kilometres an hour, it's like a 10 year old. But I mean, when you build yourself up to those speeds, that's obviously a key aspect of the sport is to work on that speed mixed with the technique and hit those moments. I mean, do you remember the first time you're pulling over 100k and kind of the feeling, the adrenaline, everything going through your body?
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I mean, it's not so much learning to do with the speeds, it's just the whole time, like even now I'm back to basics and it's all about working on that foundational skiing skills primarily, which is through GS and slalom. So that's what we primarily train. And then once you turn fifth, so there's some children's Super G. So under 16s, they have Super G courses. And I always loved, yeah, doing since under 14s, I love doing the Super G. That was my first international race I won overseas. I went to Andorra and I won a race called Trophy Barufa and I won a massive, I won 10,000 Chupa Chups.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, 10,000 Chupa Chups. Really?
GRETA SMALL: I won, I think it was about 25 kilos of Chupa Chups.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's better, come on, that's better than the Crystal Globe. You can't top that. That's an insane, that's an insane prize. That's amazing.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I think I still have some expired Chupa Chups to this day.
BEN WATERWORTH: Imagine your friends are getting Chupa Chups for Christmas that year, birthdays, like Mother's Day, Father's Day, everyone gets Chupa Chups.
GRETA SMALL: Basically at the race, so there's like two drums, like a 12 or 13 kilo drum of Chupa Chups, and I had two, and the one drum my parents like, because we had this tiny car in Europe that we'd driven from Austria down to Andorra. So for people that don't know, Andorra is a tiny country in the French Pyrenees between Spain and France. So it was about a 21, 22 car hour car trip. And so we were packed with a gun, I was like, skis for like, because I was racing all week, we had all skis, my parents, and they're like, there's no way you're bringing two, like 25 kilos of Chupa Chups home. So they're like, you have to give away one drum. So I literally did one of those crowd ones where you just like throw it into the crowd, like, and all the kids from the whole race are just like, they all grabbing, it's like throwing money into the crowd. So I did one of those. So that was pretty cool. That was a big highlight. And then I was like, no, I'm going to eat them. So I kept one drum. And then I got back to my base in Austria, and my parents like, well, you can't eat like 2,000 Chub Chubs. So you've got to like give some away. So I had to give 1,000 away, and they're like, you can keep 1,000.
BEN WATERWORTH: You can keep 1,000.
GRETA SMALL: You can keep 1,000. So then I was like at the time, and then every time we'd go on a car trip, I'd be sucking on a Chub Chub. But then after it, like, I don't know, after a couple of years, you're like, oh, I never want to look at another Chub Chub thing. You go through all the good flavours, and then you're only stuck with the shitty, like, orange ones and stuff. And you're like, ugh.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow. Geez. First of all, didn't know, is just Andorra the home of Chub Chubs? Is this just a thing they love? I mean, is that why people should go to Andorra to go for Chub Chubs?
GRETA SMALL: No, they sponsored the race. Basically, I think they gave the prizes, yeah. So, no, to Chub Chubs, I was made in Spain near Andorra. And yeah, they had sponsored the kids' rikes.
BEN WATERWORTH: Geez. And I mean, second to that, I can't imagine when you get into skiing, you've got these ambitions for Crystal Globe, maybe an Olympic medal that, yeah, third on that list now kids can achieve is, hey, 10,000 Chub Chubs. That's a pretty good result.
GRETA SMALL: No, there's one race that's still in the kids in that under 14s, there's a race in France, with international. So it's basically like in the kids under 14s, you're not in the open category. So there's about 10 races in the calendar that all the top international teams will go to. And then I was one of the only handful of Australians that would go overseas to Europe and do them. And there's this race in France I went to every year, and you'd win your own weight in lollies.
BEN WATERWORTH: Holy crap.
GRETA SMALL: So you'd literally like think of a wooden scale. You would, the kids would sit on it with their ski boots and skis to make it heavier. And these guys would just put boxes and boxes and boxes of lollies on the other side until the scale evened out.
BEN WATERWORTH: I love the aspect that there's just this thing now in Europe I'm picturing where it's just like, hey, let's get the young skiers fatter by giving them all the sugar. There's candy, there's chopper chops, let's load them up, this is great.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, and then once again, guess what, Greta came in that race. That was the one race as a 12, 13 year old I wanted to win, and I came second. So the chopper chops was ill. But now, yeah, so then once again, the kids would throw them into the crowd.
BEN WATERWORTH: I think next time you bump into Thomas at the Village, you know, hey, Thomas, I got an idea for Milan 2026, for incentive for our skiers to win. Not that they need an extra incentive for an Olympic gold medal, but hey, body weight in candy, 10,000 chopper chops. Like you want to appeal to the kids for the Olympic movement, here it is. That's what you do.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I don't know how that would go over. But I mean, look, McDonald's was a long sponsor, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, sadly, no longer. We've heard a lot from our Tokyo athletes that are unfortunately not in the village anymore. So that's a bit of a shame. If first Olympics is watching.
GRETA SMALL: Look, it won't be a big change to us because we were always in the mountain village and they'd only put Maccas down at the ice park. So we only got to try Maccas once. So it won't be a big change for us.
BEN WATERWORTH: Won't be, but you're used to it. All the ice athletes are complaining now and you're like, hey, welcome to the skiers world. Come on now, this is what we're used to. In Sochi, you went on to compete in all five of the events. How gruelling is it when you come to a major competition when you've got to compete in five? Because we look at summer sports, swimming, athletics, not so much athletics anymore, but obviously swimming, multiple events. But when it comes to alpine skiing, is it a gruelling schedule to be able to have to do a slalom and then back it up with the giant slalom and then super G and all those sort of events too? Or do you just get used to it because that's what you're doing on the world stage constantly?
GRETA SMALL: No, it's pretty tiring. I mean, over 10 days, you're racing five times. So it's essentially race, day off, race, day off, race. And they're all different skiers, all different events. And yeah, to pick yourself up, I mean, ski racing basically goes all day. So you could be out, waking up at 5.30, out on the hill at 7 for a course inspection or something. And in skiing, there's a lot of hurry up and wait, where you gotta do inspection, you gotta warm up, you've gotta do all these things, and then they've gotta prep the course. So then you've gotta sit in the hospitality tent for two hours or the weather, like the weather plays up and then you're doing, and you're just sitting there and waiting for the weather to clear. And in Sochi, it rained a lot, so we're waiting for the fog and the rain to go. So yeah, it was pretty, by the time I got to the slalom, I was mentally and physically done. Cause as a 18 year old, that was a big program for me.
BEN WATERWORTH: Do you go into an event like an Olympics and set yourself finishing goals? Like I wanna be top 20, top 30, is it about time, is it about finishing? I mean, what sort of goals did you set yourself going into Sochi?
GRETA SMALL: Yep, so going into Sochi, I wanted to get a top 30. That was my goal. Cause yeah, in ski racing, it's all about, yeah, the top 30s, top 15s, top 10s, top fives, podium, that kind of thing. Cause the way the point system works. So yeah, going in at 18 with my world ranking and having been in my first big international meet the year before at my first world championships, going in, I wanted to be top 30. And on the plane over, I was like, no, I reckon I could be top 15 if I put it out there. So, and that's what I did. I put it out there in the combined and got 15th. So that was pretty incredible to do that at 18. So, yeah, pretty proud of that race.
BEN WATERWORTH: Do you have a preference, Greta, like of the five? Is there one that you're like, okay, this is my event. This is the one that I like, and this is the one that maybe I train the most to go for those top 15s.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, so now, so since I had a number of knee injuries, I'm just doing three events now. So in Pyeongchang, and continuing since Pyeongchang, just to do the three speed events. So I'm focused on the downhill Super G and Alpine combined events on the World Cup and through this coming Olympics in Beijing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Now, speaking of Pyeongchang in the downhill, 20th, the highest place ever for an Australian female skier in that event. I mean, that was that sort of something that you'd set the goal going on the top 20, and what's it like to sort of get 20th in Olympics and hold that distinction from Australian skiing standpoint?
GRETA SMALL: And one place off Steed's Leeds, he got my east best ever 19th. When I crossed the finish line, I came down in 18th, and there were seven skiers to come that were better ranked than me, because it's a random draw within rankings. So on my number, there was still seven more skiers that were better ranked than me to come. And then two of them got me. So I moved down to 20th, and I was like, but I was to hold on to that top 20 was really incredible after the year that I'd had to get there. I think I was like a kid at Christmas in Sochi. I was just soaking it up, and I was so grateful to be there and enjoying the Olympics. And I couldn't sleep the first two nights in the village. I think I hardly slept, because I was sitting in my bed sweating, looking at all my uniform, and just like, so excited to just be there. And in career, I think I really was so much more grateful to be there, and to be at my second Olympics, and all the hard work and everything that went in to get to that second games. Been a big four years to be there, and even 12 months to be there. So I was a lot more grateful, and then to come away with a performance like that, that was my best ever speed performance after not even skiing speed events for two years was pretty incredible.
BEN WATERWORTH: The one I have to ask, I would be a failed Off The Podium host if I didn't ask about this, given our fan boy nature for a certain Ester Ladeca. What was it like being in that event to see Ester win the Super G? I mean, one of my favourite Olympic moments of all time is just that race was incredible. I mean, gosh, was that a surprise? Like, were you expecting Ester to do that? I mean, that must have been incredible to be witnessing that.
GRETA SMALL: I didn't know you were a bit of an Ester fan boy.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, we're big Ester fan boys on this show. Don't even get us started on our Ester fandom here.
GRETA SMALL: Really? Oh, do you need an introduction? Do you need me to slide into the DMs for you all?
BEN WATERWORTH: Greta, we have contacted her management and we haven't gotten a no. We've gotten a touch base at this point of the year, but if you can put in a good word, we- Yeah, so-
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, no, Ester's awesome. I mean, I've done a bit of training, couple of days of training with her over the years overseas and her team and everyone, they're so down to earth and her parents. I mean, even her dad's a pop star, rock star in Czechoslovakia.
BEN WATERWORTH: Of course he is. Of course he is. I mean, that makes sense.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, no, like the whole family's like, like Czechoslovakia pop star royalty. And no, but they're so lovely and down to earth. And you know, Ester had such a great team around her. I mean, she had two coaches, a physio, a tech and a manager with her for two years to get to that point. So it wasn't a sudden thing that I mean, she definitely shocked the world because she hadn't been on the podium before. But I mean, if anyone in ski racing, if you'd been watching the training runs and what had been happening all season, I mean, she'd she'd been winning training runs in downhill, leading up to the Olympics in Lake Louise and St. Moritz and that, but she just hadn't put it down and got it together in a race. I mean, so much in ski racing is confidence and, you know, it is working on the courses and basically all the things coming together for you on the day, like, you know, your skis, your wax, you're mentally there, you're physically there, as well as, you know, your line, you know, one turn you do wrong and you're gone from first to 20th or something. So it's such a fine line. And when the competition is so stiff, but no, she'd been skiing well all year and she just hadn't put it together in a race. And I think the Olympics definitely brings out, it puts pressures on the stars to perform on one day and brings out an opportunity for anyone to take the top step.
BEN WATERWORTH: One of the best quotes I ever heard at an Olympic Games was Lindsay Vonn's quote when she said, I got beaten by a frickin snowboarder. So, yeah, when you get that quote, that sums up that event pretty well. So absolutely insane. But yes, no, please, you know, pass on the good words. You had an amazing interview with this Australian guy and Essel Ledeck has treated like a queen on this podcast. So Beijing, obviously, a couple of months away. How are you tracking? You've obviously had a few injuries since Pyeongchang. But how are you feeling right now, Greta? And kind of what's the process now between now and, I guess, getting that ticket to your third Olympics next year?
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, so no, I'm feeling really physically fit and ready to go. So I'm just working on my foundational skiing skills at the moment while in Oz. And then so I can get over to Europe and really hit up the next gear in training and in the gates. And I think a lot of people don't realise a lot of my off-season training. I'm not just hitting gates and running gates all the time. You're working on your foundational skiing skills and those basics because that's what's gonna get you faster and get me to the next level. So no, I mean, you had to come back to World Champs in... I was like, last year, this year, 2021, too much has happened.
BEN WATERWORTH: Who knows what year it is anymore?
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I think since about, what was it? December, January, 2019, 2020, January 2020, to now is just like blurred into the one year. Yeah, so no, coming back from my injury in 2019, that was a big sort of, I was like, no, I still wanna keep going, I'm not done with the sport. I still have a lot more to achieve and give. So yeah, I pushed really hard physically to come back and I'm skiing 100% pain free, which I'm really happy about. And so yeah, I'm feeling really good and on my skis. So yeah, just taking each training day and doing what I can to get to this season and show what I can and perform well, cause I haven't had too many years in the last four years where I have been coming back from serious injuries. So.
BEN WATERWORTH: And in terms of between now and Beijing, I'm guessing you'll hit Europe, do the season, and then does it come down to rankings, points, sort of how do you book that ticket to Beijing?
GRETA SMALL: So based on my performance at world championships this season, I'm sitting in a good spot with my world ranking. So that was part of coming back from injury and getting over to Europe, even in COVID. That was a big goal to go to the 2021 world championships in Cortina, which was my fourth world championships. So with that, I'm feeling pretty confident in terms of selection. And it's just preparing with how I wanna perform in the coming world cups this season to get me in a good position to perform in Beijing.
BEN WATERWORTH: 15th, I believe, in the combined as well, the world champs earlier this year. So you're getting higher and higher there, Greta. Peaking, you're talking about peaking at the right time. Beijing, that top 10, it's calling your name right now. Bugger it, a medal's calling your name, Greta, come on.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, I was like, come on, top 10. I was like, mate, I'm going for a win here.
BEN WATERWORTH: Gold medal, you know, it's been too long. 1998 without an Alpine medal for Australia. Come on, we've got to break this duck, bring home a medal.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't be still skiing if I didn't believe, I think, what was it at watching the Tokyo Olympics a couple of weeks ago, I was so inspired. I could hardly do anything. I was watching so much TV. I think my eyes were hurting. I've never watched so much TV in my life in a row. Oh, what did that Rowan Browning was like pretty, he was like, nah, mate, we're going for better than this. He's like, we're, you know, we're going for records here. So I think, you know, his attitude and like you just gotta, you know, if you can't believe in yourself and what you're capable of. And I think, yeah, I've worked really hard mentally as well. Yeah, I think that's such a big part of alpine skiing as well. Because when it comes down to it, it's, you know, it's at the speeds we're going and the turns you're doing it. Yeah, what mentally, you know, 40% technical and physical and 60% mental, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's, as I said before, just one of the best sports to be able to watch at any Olympics and really looking forward to seeing it. Now, Greta, we close off everything too with a series of fun questions. So I'll get to in just a sec. Two quick things though. First one, reading your bio on the Australian Winter Institute website, something really stood out for me here that you enjoy watching both ice hockey and Formula One. Now I feel we could fill up another hour's worth of content talking about these two sports. So I need to know who's your NHL team and who's your favourite driver?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, I don't really have an NHL team because I've been to a few of the European league games.
BEN WATERWORTH: Right.
GRETA SMALL: So I watched the local in Austria, the Innsbruck ice hockey. So I've been to some of their matches and that's how I sort of got into it. So I first had a strength and conditioning coach in Austria and he was also the coach for the ice hockey team. So I used to go to some of the games and stuff.
BEN WATERWORTH: Who's the team there then? Who's the local team that we'll be cheering on there in Innsbruck?
GRETA SMALL: Innsbruck.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's literally. Simple, simple. Okay, ask a dumb question, get a standard answer. Yep.
GRETA SMALL: The Innsbruck darks.
BEN WATERWORTH: There you go.
GRETA SMALL: So that's sort of how I got into it. And then every year when we go over to Canada, if you can hook me up with some NHL tickets in Calgary, I mean, please.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, well, you said Calgary, you gave the right answer. So yeah, I'll find some connections because I'm a Flames fan. So yes.
GRETA SMALL: There we go. That would be a dream. And that's at the Olympics. Everyone's like, what sport do you get to go to? I went to gold medal match, hockey match in Pyeongchang with Russia versus the USA.
BEN WATERWORTH: I was at the... Yeah, it was Germany because that went to extra time. Because look, we're a co-Canadian Australian podcast. And trust me, I don't think our Canadian co-hosts have forgotten Germany being them in the semifinals in 2018. So yeah.
GRETA SMALL: Well, all I just remember is the Russians. And that was, yeah, insane. It was an awesome... I just, I don't know. In terms of team sports, I just get behind ice hockey. It's so much better than football, come on.
BEN WATERWORTH: And it's not a ball sport. You mentioned the balls before. No balls, it's a puck, so.
GRETA SMALL: No, but it's just people don't understand the skill involved, like the fundamental ice skating skills you have to have. And then the gear you're wearing, and then literally it's like a rugby punch-up in there with only five guys skating around. It's essentially rugby on ice. But then to have the skating skills and that skill aspect really, yeah, I just love it. Love watching it.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's insane, yeah. And do you have a favourite driver in F1?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, come on, Dan Ricciardo.
BEN WATERWORTH: I was expecting the obvious, but I wanted to just check.
GRETA SMALL: So yeah, no, I've seen a few on TV, but the ultimate retirement dream, I'd love to go to Monaco one day and watch it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, yes, absolutely. Well, you were not, being in Austria, I don't know sort of how far away you are from the Red Bull Ring, they kind of have a race there every year.
GRETA SMALL: I've driven past, but I'm never there in summer.
BEN WATERWORTH: Right, okay. We had Ash Werner on several weeks back, and she talked up her fandom for Dan Ricciardo, and we were trying to see if we could get a swap organised where we could get Dan in a bobsled and Ash in a Formula One car. So maybe we can do it too for skiing, like get Dan on some skis, and you can get in a McLaren. So, you know.
GRETA SMALL: No, look, I think Ash's got a lot more pull. I think that's like a real doable thing. Like, why has that not happened already? I think that's, you know, Dan and Ash need to do a spot. I mean, look, everyone needs to call Scotty James and get Dan to go to-
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, he's with Lance Stroll's sister. So there's a connection there. Yeah, exactly.
GRETA SMALL: No, they're red bull mates. They go way back before Chloe.
BEN WATERWORTH: Was that how he met Chloe? Through the red bull? Like, is that just kind of the six degrees of separation?
GRETA SMALL: Yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, so the things I'm learning on this episode, Essel Ledeck is dad's a pop star. This is going back to that. You want to know my random fandom of Formula One? I own a Lance Stroll t-shirt. I'm probably the only Lance Stroll fan in Australia. So, you know, there's all these weird connections going on here. So.
GRETA SMALL: Well, Scotty's family's got to be a Lance Stroll supporter now.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, true. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure he's got a couple of t-shirts. Aston Martin, sort of, you know, owning a few things there. The other thing too, that I'm trying to get for our winter guests here in the lead up to Beijing, you're going to get a lot of great coverage by Channel 7. They're going to be doing some fun little interviews with you, no doubt, or they already have, if maybe they have, but we're trying to get you each to put in a word, like a code word that you can put in there. And I think your code word should be chopper chop. If you can fit the words chopper chop into your interview with Channel 7, my Mel McLaughlin, whoever it is, will be watching going, there's Greta's code to Off The Podium, she's done it.
GRETA SMALL: Chopper chop.
BEN WATERWORTH: You could fit it in there. That's pretty simple, isn't it? Tell about your win, 10,000 chopper chops. Boom, there it is, simple.
GRETA SMALL: Well, we'll see what we can do in Beijing.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, yes, I like it. Good. We close it off, Greta, as I said, with a series of fun, sort of get-to-know-you style questions. As we always say before these, these are based off a questionnaire that Team Canada put to their athletes ahead of both Pyeongchang and Rio. There is always a drawing element to it. If you do want to do extra homework, Ash did a couple of drawings. So, you know, however your artistic skills, stick figures are acceptable, but don't feel obligated. You're busy, you're training for an Olympics. We understand. First question I have for you, your favourite ever Olympic moment is?
GRETA SMALL: I have a moment Whoa, I think my favourite ever Olympic moment, I wanted to be Nikki Webster in Sydney 2000. Yes, oh, brilliant. I love that answer. We always bring up Nikki when we can, and you're the first ever answer wanting to be Nikki Webster. That, I feel we should retire that question right now.
BEN WATERWORTH: That's the best answer there.
GRETA SMALL: That is the best answer. That's how I wanted to be a dancer.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, gosh. That is amazing. Seriously, everyone should want to be Nikki Webster. And if she's not at the opening ceremony of Brisbane 2032, just don't even bother holding the rest of the Olympics. Come on.
GRETA SMALL: No, I think what someone and I said, get her daughter should be out there.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, family tradition, you know. And then you'll find some weird connection that like some family member was in the opening ceremony of Melbourne, and it's kind of just this, you know, whole family tradition of the Webster's. Best answer ever for that one. If you could have any super power, what would it be?
GRETA SMALL: Teleportation.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, makes it easier just straight to Europe, not on a plane, don't have to wear a mask for like 24 hours.
GRETA SMALL: Mask, no, mask wearing is fine. I just, the hotel quarantine, the jet lag, the, oh, I forgot something in Europe. I'll go back and get it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah. Simple, your chopper chops, and then you don't have to pay the weight limit on the chopper chops basically. Your favourite ever sports movie is?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, cool.
BEN WATERWORTH: Cool.
GRETA SMALL: Oh, favourite sports movie. Oh, I can see it in my mind.
BEN WATERWORTH: Explain it, explain it. What is it? What's it about? What sport?
GRETA SMALL: I can see it in my mind, but I'm blanking on like the actual name. It's the one with the guy who, it's a really good movie. It like, I cried my eyes out. He's a runner from America, and he's trying to make the Olympics, and then Olympics gets postponed, and he ends up going to World War II, and he ends up in the Japanese concentration camp, and then he comes back, and he survives, and all these other friends die, and then he makes it back to the torchbearer at the other. It's like, there's no other way.
BEN WATERWORTH: I do know what you're talking about.
GRETA SMALL: You do? Have you seen it?
BEN WATERWORTH: I haven't, but I know the movie, and I am blanking too. Yeah.
GRETA SMALL: I cried, and Angelina Jolie directed it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, look, I tell you what, rather than living in this, because this is gonna haunt you for like the rest of the day, let's just quickly jump on and see what we can find here. I'm gonna do it quickly.
GRETA SMALL: Oh, you're looking.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I'm looking for you, because I don't want you to like have the rest of your day going, what is that movie? What is that movie? So let's see here. No, that's not that one. She's actually directed a few films as Angelina. That's good.
GRETA SMALL: I didn't know that was her.
BEN WATERWORTH: Unbroken. Unbroken. Unbroken. Oh yeah, okay. There it is.
GRETA SMALL: Unbroken. Yep, go see it.
BEN WATERWORTH: Okay, I will.
GRETA SMALL: The will to live. Yep, that's downhill.
BEN WATERWORTH: Boom, done it. Love it. And I always like to ask sort of in terms of are there prominent movies based on your sport? I mean, I'm just thinking of all the James Bond movies where fricking James Bond was skiing. I mean, you don't need a whole movie when you've got James Bond skiing in every second film, right?
GRETA SMALL: Oh no, what is it? The Fire, Ice and Dynamite or the Bogdana, the spoof films, they've got some good skiers in that. I think Steve Lee had a cameo in the Fire, Fire, Ice and Dynamite.
BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, Steve can do everything. Geez, that's okay. I need to look these up more so potentially. What is your funniest childhood memory?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, there's a few. Like what direction of funny are we going?
BEN WATERWORTH: You decide. Like if you wanna have like just a piss your pants funny, inappropriate funny, I don't know. My mind is boggling right now in terms of where you're gonna go with this.
GRETA SMALL: Childhood funny. Near death experiences, first day, 12th of August, and on a glacier in October, hardly any snow around, mid-station of a gondola, lean on my poles, poles dropped straight through the grid, down the cliff. And dad's like, well, either 200 euros out of your pocket money that you're gonna have to save up, or you go and get them. So what does 12-year-old Greta do? She free climbs down this cliff to go get her poles.
BEN WATERWORTH: Which, yeah, 200 euro versus that. Yeah, okay, I like that, that works. Did you get them though? Did you successfully get them? Good, all right, that's a good happy ending to that story. What is your favourite pump up song?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, there's a few. You can't, oh, I don't know. It depends on the mood. Like, are you vibing? Like, I don't know, like a bit of rap, love a bit of Eminem, Kanye, or then on the flip side, I'll go straight from an Eminem song to a bit of Vance Joy, so yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Nice, nice. No Strawberry Kisses on that playlist hasn't stuck with you for 21 years?
GRETA SMALL: No, I mean, look, that was my first album as a six year old, but no, I've moved on beyond that. But I mean, Strawberry Kisses still goes hard, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. It's a song that always keeps on giving, right? Like, you know, it's sort of, people bagged it out at first, but then it's now, it's the 20 year old, a song becomes cool after 20 years. What is the most recent TV show that you binge watched?
GRETA SMALL: Oh, Embarrassing or Not Embarrassing?
BEN WATERWORTH: Go for Embarrassing.
GRETA SMALL: Oh, Embarrassing, Never Have I Ever on Netflix.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yep, okay.
GRETA SMALL: That was an embarrassing one. And then probably my favourite of this year was, I went through all season, we watched Homeland.
BEN WATERWORTH: Ah, yes, great show. Did you like the ending of it? I thought the ending of Homeland was fantastic.
GRETA SMALL: Oh, I was like really annoyed at the beginning. I was like, oh, no, like, oh. My dad and I binge watched that together. And then the last, what was it? Two minutes of the last episode, they wrapped it up with a little book.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's one of those few ones where I thought like, okay, I'm satisfied with that. That's a good way of sort of ending it.
GRETA SMALL: But I mean, my heart still breaks for the death of... You don't like Brody?
BEN WATERWORTH: I like Brody.
GRETA SMALL: I was all about, oh, well, that's it. I'm not going well under the mention record.
BEN WATERWORTH: I'm testing you. I'm really doing this hard for you. It's been about a year since I've seen, so I could, yeah. Is it the young guy that died?
GRETA SMALL: He was like a mainstay character. I was rooting for him all the way until he died saving the president.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember his name. I know exactly who he is. Quinn, yeah, yeah, yeah.
GRETA SMALL: I loved Quinn. Quinn was my guy. When he died in Homeland, I was like, do I even keep watching?
BEN WATERWORTH: I felt that way a few seasons after Brody died. I'm like, where are they going with this show? But I stuck with it.
GRETA SMALL: He annoyed me from the beginning. I was like, nah.
BEN WATERWORTH: I watched him in another show. I think that's what led me to Homeland because he was in a show called Life, which only lasted like a season or two. It was like a quirky cop drama. Really, really good, but it was good. Plus, it was co-created by the guys that did 24, and I was obsessed with 24. So, you know, you've got to...
GRETA SMALL: Oh, yeah, 24, yep. As a kid, I watched all the... Oh, Jack Bauer, all the 24. And that's what led me to Homeland. Straight from 24 into Homeland.
BEN WATERWORTH: Straight into it. It's almost like the more realistic 24 Homeland, isn't it? Kind of like 24 got a bit silly towards the end.
GRETA SMALL: I mean, Homeland was based on a book, and the book came far from the truth, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly, exactly, and Claire Danes. Gosh, can we just mention how amazing she is? If you weren't an athlete, what would you be?
GRETA SMALL: A pop star, but I can't seem to know. A pop star.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, neither can some of the pop stars out there, Greta. There's technology for that, so you never know. Just talk to Ester. She's got connections, apparently. If you could be an Olympian in any other sport besides your own, what would it be?
GRETA SMALL: I love a bit of mogul skiing. I mean, I can realistically see myself, if I wasn't an alpine skier, could have done mogul skiing. Summer sports, my summer sport crossover, I reckon I could have done a bit of rugby sevens.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, yeah.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, yeah. Rugby sevens, that kind of.
BEN WATERWORTH: It's a ball though, Greta, you don't like balls, so you know.
GRETA SMALL: I know, but I've got that, I've got the, yeah, track cycling or rugby sevens.
BEN WATERWORTH: Track cycling or rugby sevens. Okay, I see that, but I mean, bouldering now, like sports climbing at the Olympics, so you could work on that.
GRETA SMALL: Yeah, but I'm not very good. All my weight's in my lower half, so.
BEN WATERWORTH: Plenty of time, plenty of time to, Brisbane 2032, I'm seeing that. Greta, before we let you go, social media, where can people follow your journey, sort of say up to date with what you're doing between now and Beijing?
GRETA SMALL: Yep, so Instagram, Greta Small 16, Facebook, Greta Small, and then I also on Twitter, Greta Small 16, but I don't tweet.
BEN WATERWORTH: You don't tweet? Well, we can still follow you and just.
GRETA SMALL: Instagram, Facebook's my go-to.
BEN WATERWORTH: Go for it there. Greta, I have to say, it's been a lot of fun. Seriously, we really appreciate your time, from everything from Chupa Chups to Nikki Webster to getting a good word in with Ester. We're very satisfied on the show today, but best of luck in the upcoming season. And we look forward to seeing you with that medal around your neck after Beijing, and then coming back on the show and sharing what it's like to wear a medal versus winning 10,000 Chupa Chups. Amazing chat from Greta, and we obviously thank her so much for her time. There's so much to unpack with that. Essela Decker's dad is a pop star. Of course he is, of course he is. And I thought eating one Chuppa Chupp could be a struggle at some times. 10,000 of them may be a little bit different, but definitely keeping an eye out for those Channel 7 interviews now to see if Greta can fit the words Chuppa Chupp in there when speaking to them. So wow, what a chat, great chat, Greta. Thank you so much for your time. We've got so many more great guests to come as well here on Off The Podium in the lead up to Beijing, summer, winter, you name it, we've got it. If you want to stay up to date with who we've got on the show, Off The Podium, search for us on all social media networks, except for TikTok, we're not quite there yet, or Tumblr, is that still a thing? I'm not too sure. And all the podcast channels, search for Off The Podium while you're there, hit the subscribe button, you'll never miss an episode. And also leave us some feedback. We'd love to hear what you think about the show. Because Greta mentioned words, Nikki Webster, Ester Ledecka and Chupa Chups, it's a five out of five for me today. So that's just my recommendation when you're leaving that feedback there as well. But a big thanks to Greta, big thanks to everyone for listening to Off The Podium. We'll be back soon with another great episode. My name is Ben, and as always, remember, go left.
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