Devon Harris Interview

A very special and exciting episode of Off The Podium today as we speak to one of the original members of the iconic Jamaican bobsleigh team Devon Harris! In this fun chat, Devon takes us through the story of how he became a member of the team for the 1988 Calgary Olympics, as well as talking about his return efforts during the 1992 & 1998 Olympics. He also gives us an insight into the future of the sport in the country and why he believes it won't be long until they can win their first ever Winter Olympic medal, as well as giving his views on the 1993 movie inspired by the story of his team, Cool Runnings.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.

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BEN WATERWORTH: Welcome back to Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast as we come to you for a very special and exciting episode that I know you are going to love. It is episode 49 of Off The Podium. I only mention that because we will have something special coming to you for our next episode, which we will talk a little bit about at the end of this one. But you don't want to get to the end of this episode, you haven't even heard this episode yet. You are about to hear an interview I did with the legendary Devon Harris, one of the most, I guess, iconic Olympians of the last 30 or so years. He was a member of the Jamaican bobsled team that competed at the 1988 Calgary Olympics, also then went on to compete in the two-man bobsled at the 92 Alba Ville Games and the 1998 Nagano Winter Olympics. And of course, many people know the whole story of the Jamaican bobsled team from the 1993 film, Cool Running, such a great film. Any fan of the Olympics no doubt has seen it on multiple occasions. And we reached out to the Jamaican bobsled team. We were put in contact with Devon, and here we are having a chat with him. Great chat, inspirational chat about how we got into the Olympics, sort of the truth behind the Jamaican bobsled team compared to the movie, even his experiences working on the film, and then just the status currently of the Jamaican bobsled team heading in towards Pyeongchang in 2018. So I'm just gonna shut up because you wanna hear from Devon. Here it is, my interview I did with the legendary, the iconic Devon Harris of the Jamaican bobsled team. Www.zeoranger..uk It's a massive pleasure to be able to welcome our next guest here to Off The Podium. He was one of the original four members of the Jamaican bobsled team that competed in the 1988 Calgary Winter Olympic Games and went on to compete in a further two Olympics in 1992 and 1998, and currently is serving, still, trying to find the next big thing when it comes to Jamaican bobsledding, and in the hopes that they can grace the podium at Pyeongchang in 2018, please welcome to Off The Podium, Devon Harris. Devon, it is a massive honour to have you here on the show today.

DEVON HARRIS: Oh man, great to be on the show, man. Usually I'm on the podium, though, so it's just cool that I'm on Off The Podium tonight.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, yes. Well, in relation to myself, it's kind of that often dream that I sadly have never quite made the Olympics just yet. So you can help me get on that podium, and then we can change our name when that finally happens one day.

DEVON HARRIS: Well, there's always beer pong. We can try that.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, look, the day that becomes an Olympic sport, I definitely have a shot at finally making the Olympics. So that is... Yes, exactly, exactly. But look, this is a huge pleasure, a huge honour, because I have to say that as a child growing up obsessed with the Olympics, you know, there's a whole, obviously, a lot of media when it comes to certain things. And gotta say, you grow up on film such as Cool Runnings, so you know the whole story behind the Jamaican bobsled team and everything along these lines, and sort of reading the history of the team, learning the true story, and the fact that you had gone back to me when I was a very young boy and said, one day, Ben, you will get to chat to one of these guys that was part of the story that was it. I would not have believed it. So I just have to say from a young child within myself here, Devon, it's a huge honour, because the scary thing I think about this is, is that next year, the Pyeongchang 2018 Olympic Games, this is the 30th anniversary of this entire legacy, the story behind it. I mean, how does that feel every time somebody brings that up?

DEVON HARRIS: Oh, man, my back is hurting every time someone mentions that. I mean, I clearly remember when I used to think that 30-year-old man was old. And now, we're talking about something that I did 30 years ago, dude, you know? But you know what? The fact that we did that, what we did, and it still resonates with people all over the world. I mean, I'm here in New York speaking to you down in Australia. It leaves you flattered, and I appreciate it for the fact that people still remember. But it also leaves me proud because it meant that we did something significant, something that touched people at a deeper level. So it's pretty cool.

BEN WATERWORTH: And for yourself, of course, because you'd always, I guess, had that dream to compete in the Olympics. I believe sort of your goal was to be a runner in Los Angeles, and obviously, you know, went a bit full circle when it came to going into a different type of Olympics four years later. So I mean, even, I guess, going back to what I was saying about if I could go back to my younger self and say what I'd be doing right now, if you could go back to your younger self and say, you will be an Olympian one day, Devon, but perhaps not around the type of track you're thinking you will be going towards.

DEVON HARRIS: That's true. I mean, you know, I joke all the time that, you know, the problem with, you know, being born and raised in Jamaica is, you know, everybody sprints fast except me, and I really wanted to win something, man. And it wasn't going to be any of the sprints and discovered 800 metre running. And you're absolutely right. I mean, I curiously didn't know about the winter sports and bobsledding until my final year in high school. I was in sixth form. So I was 19 and the Olympics were in Sarajevo. And curiously enough, four years later, here I am competing in those same Winter Olympics in a sport that I barely knew anything about. But that's the stuff that dreams are made of though. I did harbour Olympic aspirations and you go pursue them and life has a way of throwing some wonderful curve balls your way. And bobsledding was one of my wonderful curve balls. So I'm appreciative to the universe.

BEN WATERWORTH: Because basically how this came about, I believe you're in the military and you saw an ad, essentially saying that they were wanting people to form this Jamaican bobsled team. I mean, for those who aren't in the know, no, it quite didn't happen like in the movie, I guess, when there's John Candy showing a video. I mean, there was I think a bit more to it than that. So I mean, is that basically how it came about? You saw this ad and thought, hey, cool, I'll give this a shot.

DEVON HARRIS: Well, I saw the ad and thought this is the most ridiculous idea ever conceived by man. That was my first thought, and I honestly remember saying, nobody could ever get me to go on one of those things. And that remained true for me until my Colonel suggested that I try it out for the team. When you're a second lieutenant and a Colonel makes a suggestion, it's not like you have the luxury of accepting or declining. And so the Colonel suggested that I went to the team trials, not so much because he thought I was this exceptional athlete, but there was this philosophy in the Army that says, officers must always participate. And he had a bunch of enlisted men going to the team trials. And so he figured he had sent his young fit officer to make up numbers. And I kind of spoiled it for him because I don't think he was expecting me to meet the team, but hey, I did.

BEN WATERWORTH: You did?

DEVON HARRIS: I did, you know. And so here we are. Now, the stuff with John Candy is kind of an interesting story. So in the movie, you know, a room full of bobsledders are watching, you know, footage of crashes and then at the end of the view in the room, it's empty. In real life, about 40 of us turned up that day and saw some crashes that were even more spectacular than the ones that were in the movie to include people getting killed. And then the next day, only about half that number turned up for the team trials, you know. I just saw it and I'm like, I don't think this is my route to the Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: So there was, I guess, some slight truth in the fact, except, as you said, half showed up, maybe not just the one that was sitting back in the room that we saw in the movie.

DEVON HARRIS: Precisely. And that was, I guess, I don't know if you call it genius, but one of the things they did in the movie, apart from they didn't make up some stuff downright, outright, but they did take the truth and stretched it as well to make it funny.

BEN WATERWORTH: And that's kind of, I guess, the thing that, you know, when you get to that point, I find particularly growing up sort of loving the movie, it's like you do get to that point where you're like, look, I want to learn the story about this. And it leads you then to, I guess, fully understanding just exactly, you know, what happened. And I mean, you know, all the things that they stretch, it's still obviously a fascinating story that's clearly worth making a movie out of. And it's just, it's incredible, I think, kind of, you know, just the story behind everything. We'll get to sort of more of that, I guess, a little bit later on. But I mean, heading into the Olympics and you've been selected, you're heading to Calgary. What was the reaction like from the Jamaican public, I guess, going into that, given, you know, obviously the history with Jamaica was really athletics when it came to the Olympics. And as you kind of were saying, you know, Winter Olympics, not really a thing in Jamaica. So was there actually support from the public? Was this a thing that was publicised, that you guys were going to the Olympic Games in Calgary?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, I think, you know, it was all happening so fast, man. If you think about it, the team got selected in September, 87. We first saw ice in October, 87. We were in Calgary, went to Innsbruck, Austria, then went home for Christmas. And then left for Lake Placid, and then the Olympics, left for Lake Placid in January, 88. And then the Olympics in February. So we didn't spend a lot of time in Jamaica during that time period. So even as we were learning how to do the sport, Jamaica was learning about the sport as well. And the thing for sure, though, is that Jamaica and Jamaicans are very supportive of their teams, no matter what it is. And so it was one of those situations where people were like, bobsledding? What's that? All right, fine. And if we have a team, we're supportive. So that's how that worked out.

BEN WATERWORTH: And were the Winter Olympics televised in Jamaica before Calgary, or did this lead them to finally being televised in the country?

DEVON HARRIS: I don't think they were televised during Calgary, and they were never televised before that. Like I said, I learned of the Winter Olympics in 1984, and it was really, only because it was in the news at the time, in terms of current affairs. But certainly that was on television. You know, I've lived in Jamaica for a while now, but I don't know that the Winter Olympics are being televised in Jamaica. You may definitely get news reports, but it's not like the Summer Olympics, where every single day during the Olympic Games, you're getting an event or two.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, it's kind of interesting to think that, you know, with the success, obviously, that you guys brought in terms of just the eyes opening there, that I might have shooed in, that they would have gone like, oh, let's go winter crazy, I guess. But it's sort of not quite there just yet.

DEVON HARRIS: We still have a little ways to go to catch up to the Summer Olympic team.

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, going sort of based on a lot of what we saw in the movie in terms of just, I guess, what was told the story. I mean, the John Candy character, I guess, was loosely based on your coach Howard Seiler. I mean, he was a former Olympic bobsledder for the US, came sort of with this idea that basically led to the Jamaican bobsled team. Because I believe he saw that on the pushcart derby, which we see in the movie, and then kind of took that idea. What was Howard like as your coach going into those games, and what kind of advice was he giving you really to kind of take this idea of his and put this into reality at those Olympics?

DEVON HARRIS: So actually, the idea of the team wasn't that of Howard. It was two other Americans, George Fitch and William Maloney. They lived in Jamaica, had business and family connections, and they saw the pushcart and go, well, that's like bobsledding except for the ice, and the two crazy guys right on the side of a mountain in a cart. And in the process, they were introduced to Howard Seiler, who lived in Lake Placid. So we went up to Lake Placid and met him. I mean, he did a really good job of introducing us to the sport, told us just a lot of backstories of what the sport was like. I mean, he competed himself for many years. And then he just, you know, he expertly led us and nurtured us into learning this brand new sport in such a really short space of time. And it wasn't just about the technical aspects of the sport, but Howard was a psychologist of sorts. And so, you know, just the way he spoke was a lot about the mental preparation, because Bob's studying as mental as it is physical. You know, so that was really important to us, certainly for me, and it's, you know, some of those things that have, you know, at 20 years old, 21 years old, you're still kind of forming some of your life philosophies, you know, and I was able to take some of that from Howard and what I learned about Bob studying in those early years to kind of help me move my life forward.

BEN WATERWORTH: And had you experienced snow and cold weather before you ventured to Lake Placid? Was this something you had experienced through your time in the military at all?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, man, so not a ton load of snow, but I was trained at Sandhurst, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in England. And look, if you know anything about England, you know it's damn cold. So actually, you know, it's May, right? My first time in England was May, 85, and it's spring, but if you're coming from, you know, tropical climate in Jamaica, it feels like it's winter. But I tell you, it's, you know, living out in the cold when I was there, it's much harder than bobstying in the cold. You know, so I guess my military training was good preparation for something I didn't know I was going to be doing a couple of years later.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean, having you sort of mentioned before how you kind of always harboured those desires to be an Olympic athlete, you're at the Olympics finally. What was, I guess, kind of the vibe from yourself, you know, before the competition and really getting to experience this dream that you had had within yourself for some time?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, it's an amazing experience, man. I think the one that jumps out at me all the time is, you know, marching in the opening ceremonies. So just imagine that you grew up, you know, watching the Olympic Games, and you see these men and women marching in the stadium, and you're looking at them going, well, you know, those are some of the best athletes in the world. I wish I could do that. And then one day, you set foot in the stadium, and you're seeing a crowd of 50,000 people or so, I mean, shoulder to shoulder, jam-packed. I promise you more cameras than you can count. And you know in that moment that your image is being flashed across television screens all over the world. And, you know, there's probably, you know, some little guy or girl looking at you in that moment saying, well, he must be one of the best athletes in the world. I wish I could be like him, you know. It comes full circle, and in that moment, you're living your dream. It's just, you know, you're just living your dream, and it's like, wow, here it is. I'm finally here. And being in the Olympic Village was a really awesome experience as well. Eye-opening in many ways, because, you know, I am schooled in the art of war, just fresh from officer training, and so you're told, and in 1988, the world was still at the height of the Cold War, and so you're told that everybody behind the Iron Curtain was evil. And here I am. I'm in the Olympic Village. I'm in the games arcade, because it's pre-internet, so we don't have cyber cafes. And it was really archaic, man. I mean, like, dinosaur age, right? But I'm in the game arcade, and I'm killing the Pac-Man, and I'm really good at Pac-Man. Can't do any other stuff that these guys have now. But next to me, one end is a... To my left is a guy from Poland, and my right is a guy from East Germany. People behind the Iron Curtain were supposed to be evil, and you're seeing them up close and personal for the first time in your life, when you're realizing that, you know what, these guys are just like me. I mean, they share the same dreams and aspirations. They want to do the best for their country, as I want to do mine. And when you really think deeply about this, you realise that the really true difference between us is ideology. And so that was an eye-opening moment for me.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's an interesting way of looking at that. Yeah, I never thought about how that would have been. And I mean, it's sort of, I guess, the perspective is that people might have looked at you guys and thought, well, what are you guys doing here, Jamaica and the Winter Olympics? But it's kind of from the opposite side of things, as you're saying, especially coming from that military background, because you're still in the military at this point as well. It's not like you've left the military, because you went back to the military after the Olympics, didn't you?

DEVON HARRIS: Yes, I was. I never left. I mean, I went back to duty after the Olympics. Yeah, no. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking exists today, 30 years later, and it comes down to, hey, what are the real differences between us? I mean, we have so much more in common than readily meets the eye. And so, yeah, so that was an eye-opening moment for me.

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, obviously, one aspect, I guess, sort of in the lead up to the games that I guess at least was portrayed in the movie as such is sort of the struggles of you guys getting there when it came to the financial aspects of things. But I mean, this again is, I believe, something slightly different. It wasn't that much of a struggle for you guys to get there financially, or was that kind of all looked after, I guess, when it came to getting to the Olympic Games?

DEVON HARRIS: No, it was a struggle, and it continues to be a struggle, strangely enough. Because I think George Fitch, when he came up with the idea and he began to execute it, just kind of assumed that because it would have been such a novel idea that corporate sponsors would just be beating down the door. Well, guess what? They never came. And I remember us being in Austria and actually we heard about this from the Australians that they had a team prior to ours and one of the things that they did was that they sold t-shirts. So we were like, if it's good enough for the Aussies, let's do it. So we made sure. I remember going into a club at night in Austria and boogying up beside a couple with a bag of shirts under my arm, whipping one out and going, hey man, you want to buy a shirt? And the guy says no, the girl says yes and he ends up paying and we got dinner the next day. Nice. So yeah, you know, it was one of those. It was a challenge financially, for sure.

BEN WATERWORTH: So was there then kissing booths and arm wrestling matches and songs on the street?

DEVON HARRIS: I told you that, you know, Hollywood took a lot of poetic licensing and they straight up made up some truths. And I'm thinking, why didn't we think of the kissing booths? I mean, I would have called it German.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, hey, look, in terms of this crowdfunding campaign that you've got going at the moment, you still can and you can come up with like the sequel to, you know, some people, they can't believe.

DEVON HARRIS: That's a thought. And you know, a good idea. I'm going to have to work on that. I'm sure my wife would find that funny or acceptable.

BEN WATERWORTH: We won't tell her, we won't tell her. It's OK. You know, it's all for the good cause of the Jamaican bobsled team. I'm sure she'll understand. She's seen the movie, don't doubt.

DEVON HARRIS: It's cool. That's what I'll do.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah.

BEN WATERWORTH: Good idea. But I mean, obviously during the Olympics, I mean, you know, the performance of you guys, I mean, you went in there. I mean, everything that I guess sort of led up to performance and all that sort of the brief time that you guys had had out there on track and practising, when it came to that first run, how was that in terms of what you were expecting it to be? Because this says kind of, you're going back to saying, you know, it's the peak of the sport. It's the biggest stage in the world. Here you are. You're getting to put all that practice and all that training into right then and there. And you do that first run. Take us through that. How is that feeling when you cross that line at the end of that first run?

DEVON HARRIS: Really good question. You know, the thing most people don't realise about, and I suppose as we were talking about the four-man here now, we were not entered in the four-man event before the Olympics. It was the week of the four-man event in Calgary that we decided that we would do four-man. We did two-man prior, and that was all we were supposed to do. So part of it was, well, it was kind of a sense of accomplishment because we had never raced four-man before. And it was like, okay, all right, so we have a hang of this now, let's really go for it kind of thing. An interesting question, but yeah, we had never done it before, and although we had some training runs during the Olympics leading into that, it was, yeah, all right, we can do this. So let's see what kind of damage we can do for the next three runs.

BEN WATERWORTH: And I could imagine, you know, besides the obvious answer of there's two extra men in a sled as opposed to the two men, that's sort of the main difference between the four men. I'm guessing though that there are subtle technicalities involved when it comes to having extra men in the sled, and sort of there are differences a lot more than somebody like me on the outside can tell when it comes to four men and two men, and that obviously then came into play, that you've been preparing for the two men, but then all of a sudden, hey, we've got to prepare for the four men.

DEVON HARRIS: Precisely. The four men is considered the premier bobsled event, and it's so exciting already, but it requires such a high level of teamwork and coordination, trying to get four guys, four big guys in a tiny sled, you know, sprinting downhill at full speed. It's a thing of beauty, a work of art, and just one of the highest forms of teamwork that you can see in our sport.

BEN WATERWORTH: And the crash that we see in the movie, that, of course, happened during the games itself, and, I mean, obviously, a very disappointing way to end sort of your time there. But I guess what really showed at the end of it is you guys still got out, the crowd started cheering, you didn't carry the sled over the line, you did push it over the line. And, I mean, I guess that kind of is really what endeared you a lot to many people, not only there in Calgary, but, of course, watching it on there. Was that kind of something that, again, despite the fact that you crashed out of the Olympics, you still held your head high because you had that sense of accomplishment that you went into these games as complete underdogs, you know, Jamaican bobsled team, but here you are leaving it with just this level of respect that I guess you guys probably didn't even imagine you would have had going into those games.

DEVON HARRIS: I mean, it's something that I hold my head high about today. In the moment, I was just trying to exit stage left, man, and I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, I mean, that's a failure, and to be failing, and you have to expect to fail, but to be failing in front of the entire world is not necessarily something that any of us sign up to do, but that's exactly what happened to us. And in a way, I mean, a couple of things. You know, one, and first and foremost, we kind of felt that we had let down an entire nation. I mean, here it is that we're representing a country that is nurtured on this, you know, excellence in the Olympic Games, and here it is that these four fools have come and crashed and embarrassed the nation. And so it's like, wow, you know. And that's what I thought about, honestly, when I was sliding down on my head. I'm like, wow, how embarrassing. And then we had also given credence to those people who felt we didn't belong. It was like, you know, they're like, no, they're like, oh, I told you, I told you they didn't belong. But the people in Calgary that day, they were amazing, man, as we were walking down the breaking stretch, you know, trying to put the best face forward as possible. People that started to cheer and, you know, we love you. And I remember one guy reached over and shook my hand. And, you know, I was leading the pack, and I was literally shaking every hand as we walked down, trying to get down, get off the track. So that kind of, you know, softened the sting a little bit. But now looking back, yes, it was an amazing achievement, an amazing accomplishment. I mean, I just told you that that was our first race ever. I mean, who does that? Who has their first major competition at the Olympic Games? You know, but that's what we did. And, you know, we were coming off the hill with the seventh fastest start time after only a week of training. And so when you look on the totality of what we attempted and what we finally accomplished, yes, it's something to be proud of.

BEN WATERWORTH: You mentioned there were people there, I guess, that, yeah, felt that sort of that you didn't belong there. Was, I guess, there, how was the fellow competitors' reaction to you guys being there? Was it as negative as we saw in the movie? Was it split? I mean, kind of, how did your other competitors from the other sledding teams treat you guys when you arrived in Calgary?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, no, so the staff we saw in the movie is totally fabricated. We, you know, we didn't have that kind of experience. And quite frankly, I don't know of any athlete who treats a fellow athlete that way. Especially at the Olympic Games, this is the most important race in four years. And nobody's under, I can't imagine anybody would want to waste their energy complaining about a team who shouldn't be there when that is not going to contribute to the possibility of them winning the most important race in four years. So I think overall, people, I won't say that people are going out of their way to be supportive of us. They were there racing. But I think they also appreciated us being there. You know, I tell the story all the time, and I think it's Wolfgang Hoppe, who at the time was the best driver in the world, an East German of all people, of all countries, in the sense that, again, it was the height of the Cold War. It was them against us. They were never mingling. And I remember him as I was sitting in the warm houses, kind of, you know, wide-eyed, looking around and soaking in the environment. He just handed me his smile and handed me an Olympic pin.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow.

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, and the worst part of that story, I don't have the pin. I don't know where it is. Terrible. But yeah, and that was saying to me, you know, dude, you know, welcome, you're a part of the Brotherhood. That's the message I took from that, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. And what was in the reception like when you returned back home to Jamaica?

DEVON HARRIS: Oh, yeah, wow. We were worried. Because, like I said, we had a fear of the country and people would have been pissed. But they were supportive, man. I mean, in ways that we could never have imagined. I guess the ultimate compliment is the government making stamps with our faces on it. So that was kind of cool, yeah. And I don't have, by the way, I don't have any of those stamps either.

BEN WATERWORTH: They would be collector's items, I can imagine. I mean, in Australia, whenever I know we win a gold medal in either winter or summer, that's sort of the next day our postal service produces, you know, the winning gold medallist on a stamp. That's kind of an honour you get for winning a gold medal here. But that's, yeah, that's crazy. That's such an honour. You can literally say, people lick the back of my head and put me on letters. It's a weird thing to say to people, but you know.

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, I mean, today they don't do that. They just send emails. Yeah. Back then. Back then.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, back then. Back then. But a bit, of course, as I sort of mentioned in the introduction, I mean, you went on to compete in a further two more Olympics yourself personally. I mean, Jamaica obviously competed, you know, in multiple Olympics from this day. Most recently, of course, in Sochi a couple of years ago. But I mean, you went into 92. You went into 98 as well. And I believe you were in the two man at this stage. So how did that mindset again, going back to sort of when we were talking about the differences between the four and two, was this more of something that I guess you felt it was better for yourself? Or would you prefer to have been in a four man situation still in those two more Olympics?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, I would have wanted to do a four man as well. But the thing is, I went, I became a driver. So in 88, I was a number two pusher in the four man team. But I became a driver. And so I ended up driving two man in those Olympics. It was more again because of the funding than anything else. We couldn't afford two sleds, two four man sleds and so on. So it was cheaper to have two guys as opposed to four.

BEN WATERWORTH: And I guess that the legacy that that created moving then into 92 in Albaville based off kind of success and everything, I guess, in terms of just the attention and notoriety that it gained. Because I mean, obviously, we should mention 92 still a year before Cool Runnings even came out. So I guess even on a wider perspective, you know, still a story that isn't widely told as it would be a year later. Did much change going into Albaville in 92 in terms of funding and reception? Was it easier? Was it still on the same sort of level in terms of getting to those games?

DEVON HARRIS: It was. We had more funding, but we still had far from enough. We had more knowledge, more experience, you know, as opposed to four months, we now had four years. You know, our team grew because now we had, you know, Dudley, our driver from Calgary, and I became a driver as well. And we actually did try and develop a couple of other guys to become drivers during the period 88 to 92. But I was the other guy who emerged as the other guy who could actually qualify for the Olympic Games. So the program grew, but, you know, not, you know, not, I wouldn't say in leaps and bounds.

BEN WATERWORTH: But you still had, I guess, more people coming out of the woodwork and putting their hand up and saying, hey, I really want to get involved in bodsledding as opposed to when it was initially announced before you went to Calgary.

DEVON HARRIS: That's true. That's absolutely true. Yeah, we ended up, you know, with a much bigger squad. And that's one of the reasons why I said, you know, the funding improved, but still not at the level that we like it to have been. But we're able to, you know, bring more people into the sport, which is one of the reasons why I was able to drive as well.

BEN WATERWORTH: What was the reaction like when you found out that there's a movie going to be made out of this? You know, a Disney movie. I mean, it must be kind of a mix of emotions because it's a cool thing. Hey, who gets to say they've had a movie based on them? But at the same time, what are you thinking with all that?

DEVON HARRIS: Well, you know, it wasn't a sudden thing. The process took about five years, actually. So, you know, they all said, hey, they're going to, we're going to approach Hollywood and have them make a movie. I'm like, cool. And then, honestly, it's like every six months or so, you get a call, oh, they're filming. Oh, they're not filming. Oh, they're filming. Oh, they're not filming. You know, and eventually I got a call and go, hey, they're filming in Calgary. Would you like to go? And yeah, flattering, flattering to be on a Hollywood set, watching them, you know, make a movie about a part of your life. I mean, that's the stuff that movies are made of, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: So did you get to, you got to meet the cast? Did you get to meet John Candy? Did you get to hang out with the guys at all?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, man, so I was on the set. I spent most of my time, honestly, with the stunt guys, but yeah, didn't meet the cast, didn't hang out with them on set anyway. We didn't go to restaurants or whatnot, but didn't get a chance to chat with the cast in Calgary.

BEN WATERWORTH: So who then, who are you in that? So you're not Dereese, because he's the driver. So Sunk is the brake man. So you're either Junior or Yule, I'm guessing, technically, if you're the second. So he's at, was that Sunk? So was that Junior? I can't remember if it was the second one in Cool Runnings.

DEVON HARRIS: Well, that's the thing. The characters in the movie are so different from real life characters. So I say I'm Yule Brenner, the bald headed guy. But not because, you know, he was a tough, mean guy, but he was a dreamer. He was a guy that wanted to go to Buckingham Palace to live, you know. I'm a dreamer myself. So I relate mostly to him.

BEN WATERWORTH: And I guess the question a lot of people would ask you too, Devon, is did any of you have a lucky egg?

DEVON HARRIS: No, we didn't have a physical lucky egg. But I kind of look at the lucky egg as, I mean, if you remember, the lucky egg was the thing that gave Sanka his confidence, you know. And that's how I saw, so, you know, so we all have a lucky egg inside. We kind of have to reach in to touch that, to give us a courage to go off and do something that we find challenging.

BEN WATERWORTH: Good way, good way.

DEVON HARRIS: No, no.

BEN WATERWORTH: I like that. I like that. That works out well. I mean, you left, you became a citizen, I believe, in 92, sort of your time in the military, and then obviously, you know, as I said, competed in 92 games, 98 games. You spend a lot of time at the moment as a motivational speaker, I believe, but you're also involved still with the Jamaican Bobsled program. Did you maintain a position kind of with the Jamaican Bobsled team, essentially, after your last games in 98? Was this something that you kind of have just returned to? I mean, take us through kind of how you stayed involved with the program.

DEVON HARRIS: I've always been loosely involved. You know, after 98, I started, you know, my career as a motivational speaker, and, you know, focused on that a lot, but, you know, it's like you can't get away from it, man. You always get pulled back to bobsledding, and then eventually... So I was always involved over the years, not in any official capacity, but, you know, always doing stuff. And then in 2014, right after Sochi, I took over the program fully, and so, you know, I'm the guy kind of, you know, assuming the responsibility to develop the next generation of Jamaican bobsledders.

BEN WATERWORTH: And the current process, I know, at the moment, which, you know, I'll obviously talk to you about in a sec, the fact that you've got this crowdfunding campaign going at the moment in order to try and get that coach. But I mean, looking ahead to Pyeongchang, because, of course, as you mentioned, you were in Sochi, so I believe it had been a bit of a break in between when Jamaica had been qualified for the Olympics sort of between Sochi. I believe it had been since Salt Lake. You'd missed Torino and Vancouver, is that right?

DEVON HARRIS: Yes, we got to Salt Lake, so we did everything up until Salt Lake, missed Torino, missed Vancouver, and came back for Sochi.

BEN WATERWORTH: And you guys, 29th, I believe, you finished? So, I mean, that's still, obviously, you want to, I guess, improve from that, but I think 29th still, that's still a pretty, I guess, decent finish. I mean, that's, you know, top 30?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, and in fact, I mean, it's an OK result. It's not something that we jump and kick our heels about. Especially when you consider that in those, in that very race, we had the fastest start time. We set the start record. You know, so you would have hoped for a better finish, to be honest. But it's, look, it's part of the process, right? You know, we got into the sport saying that, hey, we have the athletes, we can push a fast start time. And so there's one thing that has been consistent is that over the years, we've always been a fast starting team. It's just that we don't need to work on the driving aspect, to marry up the driving with the start to get a really good result.

BEN WATERWORTH: And that's obviously where this, the crowdfunding is coming in for a coach, I guess, to kind of to help with that. So you got currently the moment on GoFundMe, and we'll definitely link all this, of course, on our Facebook page for everybody to check out. So the goal at the moment is to reach $60,000 to get a coach, help you then, obviously, towards Pyeongchang. I mean, who are you looking for? What are you looking for in a coach here, Devon? Let's kind of put the sell out there for all our potential bobsleigh coaches that are listening here. I mean, what's kind of the ideal match that you would like? Somebody who is that person who can help with the driving, with the technical aspects after the start? I'm guessing that's the main thing you're looking for in a coach?

DEVON HARRIS: That's what we're looking for. We're looking for what we call a driving coach, which is separate from a strength and conditioning coach or a speed coach, that kind of stuff. When we say we're looking for a coach, we're looking for someone who not only knows how to drive a bobsleigh, but can teach someone how to drive a bobsleigh. I personally believe that a coach needs to be a teacher, a mentor. Someone who can guide and help someone learn, as opposed to stand and point and go do this. And so, yeah, someone who has the patience to understand that. Our guys are still relatively young in the sport, and so we need someone who can guide and nurture and teach them how to drive bobsleds.

BEN WATERWORTH: And what's the process, I guess, between now and Pyeongchang in 2018 in terms of qualification? I mean, what sort of events? Because it's obviously different to when you first went in Calgary compared to how, obviously, you've got to get into the Olympics now. But is there a certain event? Is there a qualifying time? How do you guys at least get that official tick that you will be going to the Games next year?

DEVON HARRIS: Right. No qualifying times, but there's a qualifying process. So generally speaking, you have to do five races over two years on three different tracks, leading into the Olympic Games. We have essentially done that already. But this fall, starting November, in this competition season, the key is going to be, you know, what position you finish in each race. Based on your position, you'll get a certain number of points. And at the end of it all, they will tally the points up, and that is going to basically determine which drivers and which nations qualify to compete in the Olympic Games. That's a short answer.

BEN WATERWORTH: And how, I guess, are you guys looking in terms of positioning? I mean, what sort of... I mean, I guess, is there a target that you're pushing for? I mean, I've sort of read in some of the interviews sort of in the lead up to this with the crowdfunding that obviously a medal is a target. But I mean, I guess, is that the ultimate goal? Is that kind of what you really are pushing for to get on that top three, or is there kind of another sort of goal there as well?

DEVON HARRIS: Yeah, well, look, most people don't know we actually have a women's team as well. Jasmine Fenlater, who competed in Sochi with Lola Jones for the US. She's Jamaican, and she's on our team. And we honestly see her as our best shot at winning a medal. So kind of pushing hard to get her the support, to pull that off. But also on our men's side, they're young drivers. They just started the sport in terms of driving in 2015, was the first time they drove a bobsled. So honestly, for them to just qualify for the Olympics would be a feat. But we're pushing hard, pushing really hard to get that done. We also have a skeleton athlete. We've never had a skeleton athlete in the Olympics. So to get him qualified would also be historic.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. I love skeleton. That is one sport that I'm just fascinated by because you got to have balls of steel to get on that thing. That is a terrifying looking sport.

DEVON HARRIS: God bless you, man. I don't think I have any of those.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes. It really is crazy. This is the thing that I love about the Winter Olympics. Similar to Jamaica or Australia, we're not exactly the biggest winter country in the world. It's unique to see sports that we're not familiar with. And growing up in Australia, we didn't have a huge amount of coverage of the Winter Olympics. It's changed now. We do get heavy coverage of it because we obviously are at a point now where we're winning medals. Whereas early 90s, we won our first one. On that, do you look at countries like Australia, who were in a very similar position to you guys in the fact that we had no winter success? Obviously, there are differences there in terms of our funding and population and everything along those lines. But the fact that a country like Australia can go forward and regularly now challenge for medals, is that what you would like to see for Jamaica in the future and maybe following the steps of Australia in the Winter Olympics?

DEVON HARRIS: I envision that eventually our Bobstead program is going to be one of the top teams in the sport. And I joke all the time with my friends here in North America, my Canadian and American friends, because they have been very supportive of us and helping us to get on the track. And certainly in our sport, Jamaica is seen as an emerging nation. We're in the group of emerging nations. And I often ask, hey, so when we start beating you guys, are we still going to be considered an emerging nation?

BEN WATERWORTH: With the gold medals around your neck, it's like, are we time to be taken seriously now, guys?

DEVON HARRIS: Like, Jamaica is an emerging nation because we don't have a Bobstead track. And they're like, emerging nation, my... But they just won the Olympic gold medal.

BEN WATERWORTH: You know?

DEVON HARRIS: So it's going to be interesting to see how that all plays out.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I had to laugh. I heard an interview you did with a Canadian radio station recently, and the host on that one asked about, obviously, a sane bolt. I'm sure that's a question you get asked all the time, in terms of like, he's retired now from the Olympics. Can we sort of get him on the team for Pyeongchang? What would that be like if you legitimately, for some reason, he woke up tomorrow and was like, yeah, absolutely, I want to go and give this a crack. Would he make a difference, I guess, is kind of the question, or is it really down to back what you were saying? It's the driving, really. You've got the start down, Pat. You don't need a sane bolt.

DEVON HARRIS: Well, I mean, who doesn't need a sane bolt? We could use him. It would make a significant difference at a start. Our driving is coming along, so the start would definitely by far super see the driving. It could make the difference in terms of a couple of places, but I don't know that it's going to allow us to win, because I don't honestly think, and objectively speaking, we're there yet. I think we're going to be there for Beijing in 2022, but I don't think we're, for the men's team, ready to content for a medal.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, there's the fairy tale for Usain Bolt. I mean, come on, he won his first gold in Beijing in 2008. I mean, wouldn't that just come full circle, that he could come back in 2022, go back to Beijing? I mean, come on.

DEVON HARRIS: I agree with you, man, and you're just giving me an idea, because the last time I spoke to him about this, he laughed. But maybe he could become the first guy ever to win an Olympic gold medal both winter and summer in the same city.

BEN WATERWORTH: Look, I mean, there's so much history around it. He seems to be like a man who likes his history. So, you know, that's a selling point. Get on to it, Devon. I'm making the most of it, man. And when he wins that gold, I expect him to personally thank me. I mean, that's just what I ask. That's all I ask. That's simple. That's not a lot to ask. Not at all. As I said, we're going to put up this link for the crowdfunding page on our website and on our Facebook page and share it out there, because obviously we want to see you guys go there next year and succeed and just get this coach behind you. And of course, there is the Jamaican Bobsled Team Facebook page as well as how we got in touch with you guys, and we very much appreciate this happening. And it's great to see this, because it is one of those things that, as I said, as a fan of the Olympics, and it's not just myself, but people involved in this show and everybody else who kind of have grown up on this story, such an inspirational story, and to me, kind of jokingly saying about my desire to be at the Olympics, and I mean, even your story then, just saying about walking out at the opening ceremony, that to me would be my achievement. Of course, you would love to win a medal, but to me, just making the Olympics would be an achievement in itself. So it's such an inspirational story, Devon, and it's just been such a pleasure to be able to share this with you today, and this has seriously been such an honour, and I really thank you for your time today.

DEVON HARRIS: I appreciate you, man. Thanks for reaching out, and thanks for spreading the word about our program and what we're trying to accomplish in 2018. I just want to say hello to all of Australia. I haven't been there yet, but it's definitely on my list of places to visit.

BEN WATERWORTH: Such an absolute thrill. You heard me say it there towards the end, and at the beginning of this interview as well, just how much of an honour it was to chat to Devon. And seriously, I thank him and everybody involved in the Jamaican Bobsled team for organising that for us. And yeah, easily one of the highlights I've ever had in terms of doing interviews. It's such a pleasure to speak to him about everything that you just heard. But moving forward, we've still got interviews coming your way. I know Colin is speaking to a few Canadian athletes coming up very soon. We've got a few more Australian athletes in the lead up to Pyeongchang. And this will obviously be an ongoing series as we head towards the games next year. But our next episode will be something a little bit special. It'll be our 50th episode. So we're gonna take a look back at kind of the best bits we've had so far off the podium. Clearly we had a lot of fun covering Rio last year. So there'll be a bit of an emphasis in terms of sort of the best bits during those Rio daily coverages that we did, as well as snippets from some of our interviews that we have brought you in the most recent months as well. So stay tuned to that. That'll be our 50th episode Off The Podium coming your way soon. If you do like what you hear, you can subscribe to us on iTunes. We are on Stitcher as well. Remember to rate us and leave us feedback whilst you're there as well. And if you're on Facebook, check us out our page Off The Podium Podcast, and you can like us on there. Stay up to date with everything that we've got coming. And if you're on Twitter, you can use the hashtag Off The Podium if you're listening to these interviews perhaps and wanna chat along the way. But once again, my thanks go out to Devon Harris and the Jamaican Bobsled team for allowing this to happen today. And we will be back next time for our 50th special, our 50th anniversary, our 50th birthday, our 50th episode. I've tried to make it sound a little bit more exciting than it actually is, but still it's a big deal. Thank you for coming Off The Podium.