Apolo Ohno Interview
It's only hours until the 2022 Beijing Olympics and we have saved our biggest interview ahead of the games till last as we speak with the most decorated US Winter Olympian of all time and one of the greatest Short Track Speed Skaters of all time Apolo Ohno about his decorated career, his new book and everything else in between! We find out from Apolo just what brought about him writing his new book and how he hopes it will inspire people moving forward. We also learn more from his perspective of THAT race in Salt Lake City that saw Steven Bradbury famously win Australia's first ever Winter Olympic gold and what he thinks about it 20 years later. Added to this we also find out what the chances are for the US to break their 16 year drought of not winning a gold medal in short track, as well as if his blood is really that deadly if it touches the ground in Tasmania. It's an amazing interview that you simply can't miss, so get to listening and get yourself even more in the Winter Olympics zone!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.
BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, An Olympics Podcast coming to you today for a massive, massive, massive episode. It is our last interview before the Olympics. I think we've probably said that in about the last 20 interviews, but we've had so many of them happening that we thought we would save the biggest and the bestest till last because we've got one of the biggest guests we've ever had on this show joining us today in an exciting interview. And so big it is that I can't do this by myself. I'm Ben and there's a Canadian on the episode. Hello, Colin. Welcome back to Off The Podium. What's your name? Who are you? I don't know who you are.
COLIN HILDING: Thank you. And I'm here to plug my new book as well.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, really?
COLIN HILDING: Oh, hey, I'm Canadian, Colin Hilden throwing chairs and winning battles.
BEN WATERWORTH: Penny was robbed, the Colin Hilden story. We are so excited today. A little perky, you might have heard this guy, Apolo O Ohno. I don't know. I've never heard of him. No idea. So rings a bell. Just got handed to it. Oh, sure. I'll interview this guy. Sounds pretty exciting. Pretty much the greatest short track speed skater of all time up there with equal in terms of medals. We'll get a great introduction from him here, though. I remember as a kid watching the Salt Lake Olympics, and basically I think he got more coverage from our network, Channel 7, than any of the Australian athletes did. They were talking up the big deal. I don't really want to put him in the same sentence as Marion Jones because Marion Jones has a bit of a stigma around her now after what happened after her. But I remember going to Sydney, outside of the Australian athletes, it was all about Marion Jones. And it's kind of like Michael Phelps in Beijing. You had these athletes who people are talking up. But everyone was talking about Apolo O Ohno in 2002. So we're here to talk to Apolo O about his career. He's got a new book out. We learn a lot about that race in Salt Lake that Australians are not very familiar with. Canadians do too. They got a bronze in it as well. But just quickly before we get into this, on Apolo O Ohno, was he a big deal in Canada? Was he being talked up a lot going into Salt Lake? Do you remember that?
COLIN HILDING: I would say definitely with Salt Lake, even more so when you got to Turin. But you know that somebody is a big deal when you can take over the local coverage where you actually have a shot at a medal. It's different if you're in a sport like all this time, I'm not saying that you should make a big deal about Michael Phelps, but it's not like Canada was competing against Michael Phelps. So when you have the local CBC coverage talking about Michael Phelps, it's a little bit different than when you have skaters in the mix and they're only talking about Apolo O Ohno. I mean, he really is. I think I even mentioned this interview. I mean, he is the face of the sport for so many years. And obviously, there's still some big stars skating today, but particularly in America, still really the face of the sport of speed skating. He is synonymous with that sport, which is great when we can have these athletes on where you just mentioned the sport and they're one of the first names that comes to mind.
BEN WATERWORTH: There's actually some fun things we don't mention in the interview, but he actually was the first and to this date, the only US. American, US. American at the same placement, American male short track speed skater to win a gold medal. And the last, we mentioned that part in this interview that's been 16 years since the US has won one, which again, coming from two non-Americans, we just assume America wins gold in all of these sports. So it kind of, it's weird to think, oh, America has a bit of a drought. We talk that in ski jumping, the fact that America hasn't won a ski jumping medal since 1936. So things like that, we're like, hey, America's not all powerful, look at them, they can have drought too. But another fun fact too, which I should mention here, we love our stats here on the show, but we love the sport of short track speed skating. Apolo O is actually going to be our first short track guest since Andy Jung back pre Pyeongchang. So we actually haven't spoken to anyone from short track in four years. And what a way to kind of break that drought ourselves by bringing up maybe the greatest short track speed skater of all time. But this is a great chat. We're going to learn a lot about his book and everything else in between. But I'm going to shut up and we're going to hand over to me as myself and Colin interview the one, the only Apolo O Ohno.
BEN WATERWORTH: So excited to welcome our next guest here on Off The Podium today. A man who doesn't really need much of an introduction, but I'm gonna give a bit of an introduction here today. The most decorated US. Winter Olympian of all time, with eight Winter Olympic medals. The co-leader in the most ever short track speed skating medals in the history of the Olympics is a member of the US. Olympic Hall of Fame, has won more than 20 world championship medals, is a New York Times bestselling author, winner of Dancing With The Stars, and a man whose blood is so powerful that if it hits the ground in Tasmania, it activates giant Tasmanian devils that will kill you. Absolutely everywhere you go. He is just about to release a brand new book called Hard Pivot, and we're here to talk about that today. Some other highlights from his career and everything else in between. It is a pleasure to welcome Off The Podium, Apolo Ohno. Apolo, first of all, welcome to Off The Podium. It's an honour to have you on the show today.
APOLO OHNO: Yeah, thanks for having me on. And that's an awesome intro. That is definitely the most unique intro I've ever been given. So I'm very grateful and appreciative.
BEN WATERWORTH: As a Tasmanian, there's no way I can avoid bringing that up at some point. We will definitely get to that. And I also should mention as a Tasmanian, as an Australian, that it's something that I think a lot of our listeners from this part of the world would be familiar with about you being between a Canadian and Australian when it comes to certain things. And we'll talk about that at some point. 20 years ago, you stood between an Australian and a Canadian at some point. But as I said, we'll bring that up. But you got a brand new book coming out, Hard Pivot, just about to be released, sharing about five golden principles for overcoming challenges. Now give us a bit of an idea about the idea behind this book, sort of what brought you to writing this, and what's it about?
APOLO OHNO: So the book was, it took me about two and a half years to write it. I started writing this book in actually at the beginning of 2019. I had, you know, at that point had been effectively about 10 years retired outside of my original Olympic path, had kind of gone through this multiple stage and iteration of what I would call like loss of identity. So being married to kind of the intro that you gave me, right, around like Olympic champion, Olympic medallist, and that transition and reinvention was really, really challenging, as it is for many athletes. And so I just, I felt that like a lot of people, not only those who are coming home from sport, or the Olympics, or the military, but just in life in general have these like various times in their life where they're really forced to reinvent or adapt to maybe an uncertain climate, or they lost their job or lost a loved one, and they're really forced to deal with some of those outcomes in real time. And I just felt that there was perhaps not an easier path, but maybe a more understood path in terms of transitioning beyond in terms of how we can reinvent ourselves. And so I began writing that around this idea that there are a multitude of different options and toolkits that we can use at our disposal to at least embrace change in ways that we didn't think about before. So, you know, that process was long, and it's really just geared towards people and individuals that both in their professional career and their personal life are really seeking for some sort of either upgrade, transformation, transition, or just complete reinvention, either by force or by choice. And so I open up the book by kind of talking about my own struggles and challenges associated with the internal process and what that was like from identity of being this Olympian and then figuring out like, shit, like what else am I good at? What else am I interested in? What else am I passionate about? Like what else is important to me? Do I have purpose beyond the world of speed skating and et cetera? So that was not an easy path. One that was pretty challenging. So I just felt that people were interested and hungry to maybe see and read around some insights that have been given to me throughout my life, not saying this is the blueprint, but saying, hey, there are some alternative options here. To help you transition beyond.
COLIN HILDING: And you know, it's interesting. I mean, you are like many other athletes in their sports. You are the face of your sport for so long. And as you said, you identify just as that. And then you've transitioned to so many other things throughout the years. So this book almost seems like a perfect fit. You have a lot of experience, trying this, trying that. But as somebody who is the face of a sport for so long, do you encounter a lot of young athletes where you feel like, whether it's through putting out this book or just interacting with them one-on-one, athletes in your sport or any others, where you can really kind of be a mentor to them?
APOLO OHNO: Absolutely. So, I mean, look, I see the existing kind of US Short Track team multiple times throughout the year. And they are very different, both in terms of psychology and the way their thought process works towards a sport that I think that we were. It's a lot more options to, I think, show their vulnerability, be open, talk about things outside the world of speed skating, et cetera. So they're giving these avenues. But then I don't know if I serve as a mentor, but I just want to be able to open up this book in a way that says, hey, there's a lot of conversations that you have internally between your own two ears that perhaps you are not comfortable sharing with other people, either by insecurity, by conditioning, whatever that is. And I'm here to tell you that we can redefine what that word of strength and performance actually means. And so while we have full expectations and belief that you can perform at the highest echelons of performance on the planet, we also know that you're a human and there's other aspects of that process that sometimes are really challenging. So how do we balance those things in a way for you as a young athlete or you as an individual who is 60 years old looking to pivot into something entirely different? How do we do so in a way that perhaps is less painful and doesn't drag you down the wrong path and instead brings you to our path that is really more in alignment with what you feel like your purpose and true north really is. And that's hard to do, right? Because we're all so self-critical and some of the things that I talk about in the book really revolve around this one component of self-acceptance, right? So that's self-acceptance in terms of I accept you and will remain as you are in this state today, but it's more of showcasing to yourself individually that hey, throughout your process, you're going to have to be able to look in the mirror and have this transparency with yourself and say like, you are not perfect. You are all those things that hold you back and you're a self-saboteur and you are weak at times. And that's fine. That's totally acceptable for who you are today. And then basically, I think it's, it's not always self-appreciation, but it's really just self-acceptance around, I love who I see in the mirror, which we're not taught that, right? I mean, you're definitely not taught that in sport. And it's really uncomfortable. Like, you know, like growing up, like as like a young, you know, male athlete, I was conditioned that like, you should show no emotion at any time, unless you win. That that's the only time where you are allowed to show any sort of emotion in any capacity. Everything else you hide like a poker face. And while there are like really powerful traits associated with that process, I think it just provides, it basically paints this poker face like falsity that is not totally wholesome in your life. And I think the more that you can basically come to terms with who you are in your state, the greater level of acceptance and then growth you'll be able to have post. Meaning I accept myself for who I am, now what are the steps necessary for me to go from point A to point B, from 1.0 to 2.0. And then that only happens when you fully accept and you're really transparent with yourself. Basically, you own all the things that make you who you are today.
BEN WATERWORTH: And is that something that you found was challenging for you personally to reach that point where you can not only openly discuss this and put it into a book, but accept yourself? I mean, as you were saying there, you're conditioned a certain way. You're not thinking about that way maybe during your career, but was there a point where it was starting to kind of click and then you thought, well, I want to help this with other people going through situations like I did? I did at some point?
APOLO OHNO: Absolutely. Look, I think, you know, when you look at sport and then the topic around both mental health, accepting people for humans beyond that in which they represent as Olympians, it was really hard for a lot of the public to see, you know, these superstar athletes like a Michael Phelps or a Simone Biles, right? Basically go to the Olympic Games and say, I'm not gonna compete, I'm out. I don't feel well. And a lot of people were pissed off. They were like, that's not what it takes to be an Olympian. You're showing weakness, you're copping out. That was the first initial response because we're conditioned to believe that. But who am I who doesn't know this person who's competing on the world stage? I don't know anything about the background, where they came from, what they've gone through, or what's most importantly, what they're actually having between here of how I can export my belief onto them. And so we're living in a kind of a sensitive time, I think, where people want to identify with certain beliefs and systems. And when we don't have them, you're then become an enemy to us. And so I did go through that process. It was really hard, man. I'm still going through that process, right? In full transparency, like it's never something that I say that I've mastered. What I can tell you is that I do embrace change. That's something that I have really come to terms with. And I've come to expect change, and I've come to actually welcome change in a way where uncertain environments have tend to shown that I can perform at the best of my level. I can adapt to those environments. That's when I can find the greatest levels of performance. And so just like short track speed skating, which is for those of your people and listeners who have no idea what the sport is, it's like a masterclass in stoicism. You control the aspects of this sport and preparation for a four year or an eight year journey, or even a 12 year journey to get to an Olympic Games. And then at the snap of a finger, you may be disqualified or fall down or just fall short of performing at that level. And so the world will then say, oh, that's too bad. Maybe that's a failure. You didn't have what it takes. You cracked under pressure. That's like the easy thing to say. And you can believe that and then live the rest of your life stewed in a moment of bitterness that controls the way that you perceive the world, its outcomes and the potential for yourself. Or you can choose a different path. And in full understanding, say like, I don't know why I didn't perform. I don't know why that happened the way that it did, but I can no longer control that outcome. I have to surrender to that outcome, take the insights and learnings from it, and then apply it in an intense way to actually propel me towards whatever else that I want to pursue and attack in my life. And I think that we have that choice. And so the goal here is to show people that life is always gonna lift you up, it's gonna smack you down at the moments when you can't possibly imagine. When just when you feel like you're getting your groove and you're feeling like you're getting into the rhythm and you're starting to understand this, life says smack, it smacks you right in the face, knocks you down and says, oh, don't forget who you are. You're not that person. You're not good enough. You're not attractive enough. You're not this, whatever, whatever these inside voice are telling you. And I'm here to tell you that those are noises to keep you constrained into the safe environment that looks familiar, that feels and acts as if this environment, because of the millions of years of conditioning we have in our DNA, this is the safe space. And safe space means that you're not gonna die or get killed or get injured. And the only real growth that we have as individuals is when we push beyond that into this kind of uncertain environment where we're forced to figure out and scramble and basically pull ourselves together. So look, a lot of people talk about this. I think it's much easier to talk about it than to actually enact it. And hopefully I can provide some tools and some resources in this book to help people just navigate through these waters. I have no idea whether they are gonna succeed in their goals or not. I can't control that. What I can promise you is that when you change your perceptions of problems, turn them into opportunities, sorry, problems into challenges and challenges into opportunities, I think your life perspective changes in an entirely different way. And that's my goal, right? Like my new purpose in life is less about me and saying this is about me and more about saying this is about you. How can we inspire you and provide you guidance and different paths to move from the passenger seat of that car over into the driver's seat grab a hold of the steering wheel, stop pointing the finger at other people and start saying I am going to navigate throughout my own life. I have no idea what's going to happen in the road ahead. It may be a pothole, the road may be blocked. I may see a stopped car on the road and I have to swerve. Whatever that happens, you can receive that information and then react and then hopefully respond in ways that are actually better suited to your overall goal of life. And identifying, like what does that mean? What does that mean to live in your life, right? It's pretty short, so.
COLIN HILDING: You know, you mentioned you started writing this in 2019. Obviously so much of what you're saying, it doesn't sound like it only applies to athletes, can really apply to anybody. But you know, as an athlete and having, I guess started this in 2019, you have a pandemic that happens in the middle there. I mean, a lot of what you're saying, it seems like this has just become stuff that everybody's dealing with. You know, whether you are now stuck at home, you know, working on a laptop or you are an athlete. And we kind of saw, I guess, that big shift. You mentioned Simone Biles is one of the people that, you know, coming out of Tokyo was willing to just say, yeah, you know what? The pressure is a little bit too much. I need to do this for myself. I need to do this for the team and everything. Do you feel like that there's been a shift now? You know, maybe if it is the pandemic or any other reason why now it seems like people are willing to actually come out and be a little bit more forthcoming with this?
APOLO OHNO: I think it's, I think it's natural progress and, excuse me, look, I think it's natural progress of society to be willing to peel back the layers of what we deem to be normal, what we deem to be acceptable. It's not that unlike of people's idea around race, around sexuality, around acceptance of behaviour, right? What was or used to be thought as being in the realm of what I believe to be okay or acceptable from the 40s and 50s is entirely different than what actually happens today. And by the way, we carry our teaching from our great-grandfathers and grandfathers and parents into us and then our environments of how we brought up. That formulates our idea of identity and what we want to align with and what we believe to be acceptable or whatever that is. Now, good, bad, or wrong, I don't personally care. It doesn't matter to me. I just observe. This is how society has actually gone through its process. And now we're in the stage of, I mean, we're in a totally different environment, right? And it's a really sensitive time. I mean, I'm speaking from a place of being American, right? And American has always been, I think Europeans and the Asian cultures always kind of laugh at the US and kind of saying like, you guys have no culture because you have no history, right? It's like, that's such a young country. But I actually, I combat that by saying like, I think our culture is actually deeply rooted in innovation and in change in reality. Because we're not married to traditions per se, we're always open to change. We're always open to these things that are allowing us to kind of progress throughout life. Whether we make those decisions in a good way or a bad way, or maybe those acceptances are right or wrong, I think that at least having the conversation is healthy. And so my whole goal of this book is to kind of provide that spark again in people, to let them know that I'm not the answer, this book is not the answer. The answer is reverberated in these lessons that you already know yourself. You're seeking affirmation through an external source. And that's fine if this happens to be in that capacity, but know full well that no one else in this world, no other inspirational speaker, athlete, celebrity, business mentor is going to provide you with the kickstart that you require. That comes from within. And so how do I give you the reminder that it is up to you how you live your life without knowing what the control mechanism is gonna be here, without understanding what the end goal is actually going to be for yourself. You have to identify with that. But knowing full well that we can look back on all the great philosophers and teachers of our time, and we can see similarities in the human movement and the human experience that says, if you cannot find something to live for, then you'll absolutely die with feeling like you have no purpose in meaning. And that's not what we wanna have happen. We instead wanna have something happen. All the other external goals of what society tells you, what you should look like, what you should have, how you should operate, how much money you should have, what you should buy, to me, all this stuff is noise that distracts you around from what's important to you and your life experience, the loved ones that you have surrounded yourself with. How do you make sure that you're living your life with purpose and passion and fulfilment? And that's hard to say, right? Cause like some of us go through life and like, shit, man, I have no idea what my purpose is. I feel like I'm just kind of floating through life, and I feel like I'm a cog in the wheel. I'm just another number in this manufacturing plant that is just going through life. And I think that's normal to feel at times, but what I'm telling people is that that's within your control. And we all come from different environmental backgrounds, different financial backgrounds, economic challenges or whatever that is, but the prison that I say it's all time, the prison that is kind of the most overlooked is right between our own two ears. And so we just want to free people from that, to allow them to just to do stuff that they love to do, do stuff that makes them hungry, do stuff that is hard, and to remind them that you can do the hard stuff. That's a part of being human, right? We've persevered through all different types of weird situations, wars and conflict and disease, and we're still here. And that is the human experience. We have evolved over these years. And so part of that evolution, I think, is also understanding why we do what we do and how do we grow from those learnings and insights and not just fall back into this abyss of repeating ourselves over and over and over again. And then 10 years goes by and we're kind of scratching our head and wondering, wow, I'm no closer to my goal than I was a decade ago because I've been distracted, giving more energy and time to what the external sources wanted me to do versus really listening to my own inner voice. And that's what I want, right? Is for you to operate in your most authentic self, whatever that is.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, it's out in a couple of weeks and we'll plug it a little bit more at the end of the interview. We're obviously very much looking forward to having people read it and check it out. You were mentioning just there Apolo O about, you know, viewing yourself maybe a decade ago, things like that. Got to take you back two decades ago because 20 years ago, I can't believe it is 20 years since I can say that a little event happened that Australians remember very fondly, the 1000 metres at Salt Lake 2002. It might be something that you maybe don't remember as fondly as we do in this country. I just want to ask when it came to that race that I read in Steven Bradbury's autobiography, he said, you said in that book that you didn't really kind of look at Steve as a threat in that race because you had everybody else going there. But you then said, if anybody else is going to win that race, besides yourself, you'd like to see Steven win it because he'd been around for a little bit, you know, farewell on the sport.
APOLO OHNO: How do you know that? Steve was around for a long time.
BEN WATERWORTH: He was, yeah. I believe because you first watched Short Track in 94 when he won our first ever medal. So, you know, you were what, about what, 12, I think, in 94, weren't you? So probably seeing him create history back there. So there you are racing against him. But how do you look back at that race? I mean, you obviously went on to win a lot more gold medals and everything, but is that one that stands out on a different perspective from you, obviously, given what happened, and that everyone fell over and he wins this gold medal that is etched in folklore in Australian Olympic history?
APOLO OHNO: Yeah, I mean, it's the single most important race of my life. And it's funny because it's not the colour of the medal that I thought that I deserved at the time or that I wanted. No one goes in the Olympics wanting to win a silver medal. Everyone who goes into the Olympics wanting to win a gold medal. That's how we're conditioned to believe, right? Which is fine. But it was a significant race. It represented a lot of things that are much more contextual and layered, I think, now looking back 20 years ago. And it was a really important life lesson that I really carry with me today. Not only from Steve in how you look at his lens of life, but also in terms of my own path and how I responded to that. So it was really interesting.
BEN WATERWORTH: The one thing that I love about the whole race and the story is that you were wearing a pair of skates from Steven Bradbury's company. And he said to you, I believe if you win the gold, because everyone expected you to win the gold, you've at least got to give me a mention. So do you think that was some sort of weird, like universal karma going, okay, we'll give you a mention by letting him win the gold. And still he also kind of gets a silver with your skates coming home, second place as well.
APOLO OHNO: Look, I have no idea about the universal karma. I can tell you that life works in very mysterious ways. People don't know, and maybe they do in that side of the world around Steven's background. So I'll give you the explanation, right? Steven Bradbury, he's actually an incredible physical specimen. Genetically, he was incredibly powerful and strong. And then you combine that with, the guy actually busted his ass. He really trained hard. And I can say this, because I love Steve. He just wasn't very good at speed skating. His technical aspect, he couldn't put it together. It doesn't mean that he physically wasn't gifted. Speed skating is a very technical sport, and so you can be the strongest person in the world, but if you can't transmit that power into the ice efficiently, it's like you're skating 50% below your level. And so, I'd known Steve, I'd known his style. The way that Steven had actually got into the final was something similar. People didn't fall down, but there was like disqualifications and some other things that happened. So he has back to back races, where in our sport, we would say, well, he got lucky, but no one cares if you got lucky. All that matters is that somehow, some way, and I love the name of the title of his book, he was the last man standing. And whether by choice, by default, by pure luck, the ability to, I think Steven was basically watching the last half of the race from the back of the pack, really just watching to see what was gonna happen, and then hoping there was gonna be some sort of a crash and he could snag the bronze medal or something of that. You know, I had before the race, I had already written Steve off. Like, not in terms of like, I just didn't think that he was going to be in the mix in the last three and a half laps of the race. And I was right, like he wasn't there. And, you know, to have seen kind of what happened post his winning gold, I think Steven was just as surprised as everyone else was when he won that race. And his, you know, his going through his own trauma of like having a blade go through his leg, and like multiple times, where Steve probably should have just, yeah, broke his neck. I mean, this guy like has gone to the most horrific of injuries and he's always come back, is to me like a testament of, like just when you believe the world has all of its odds against you in every capacity, and the world tells you you're not gonna win, other people tell you you're not gonna win, and you're not good enough and you don't have what it takes. The life that you live works in really mysterious ways. And so if you think about it, Steve had tried to open 100 doors, right? And all 100 doors were locked. And I'm assuming most of us would be like, all the doors are gonna be locked. That's 100 doors. There's not even 1% of these doors that is open. They're all locked in this house. But he kept going and he tried to open that 101st door in which when he opened the door and he turned the knob and he was able to step in and that's how he won. So I think it's an incredible story of like perseverance, et cetera.
BEN WATERWORTH: And I think that as you say, like, I mean, his book Last Man Standing is incredible. It is the entire journey behind it. And of course, everybody just overlooks the journey. They just think of that race. But the thing that I find unique about probably your salt lake experience is that a lot of people probably think you come out of those games as the most hated man in Korea, but they don't realise that you're probably one of the most loved men in Australia that helped us out with that and everything that came from that. So did you ever get, ignoring all the hate mail you got from Korea after salt lake, did you get any love letters from Australians going like, hey, thanks for that. Thanks for the help. We're very happy that you helped us get a gold.
APOLO OHNO: It's funny because even to this day, when if I'm doing business and we're talking to a company in Australia, and we'll all gloss over my bio or one of my partners will give my bio and background, and they'll be like, oh, he's a speed skater. And they'll be like, oh, I remember speed skating. Do you remember that race with one of our countrymen, Steven Bradbury? I was like, I remember that race probably better than you do, and here's why. So it's really funny. It comes up more often than not, which is really cool. Even when I give, if I'm doing corporate executive retreats to Fortune 100 companies, and we're talking about leadership principles and reinvention, et cetera, there's always one Australian in the room who operates a faction of their company, and he'll raise his hand and kind of bring that up. And it's actually really endearing to kind of walk through that race again, because it was such a special time. I was really young. I would say I was 19 years old going on 15. Wow. In the sport, I feel like your growth is stunted in many ways, because you're just spending all your time doing one thing. And so the other areas of your personal development is really stunted in its growth. And I just remember going through that process. It was such a weird time. Yeah, wow.
COLIN HILDING: When we run through 2002 to 2010, basically watching the Olympics at that time, you expected so many from Team USA to be on the podium. You know, we recently had Chad Hedrick on here, you, Shawnee Davis. Just kind of run us through. Was there something with the team as a whole? Was it a coaching thing? Was there something in the water? What is it that made you guys so dominant? Because you couldn't watch the Olympics at that time and not see one of you guys sitting on top of the podium.
APOLO OHNO: Well, look, the data around host country bringing in Olympic Games and the correlation between the host country and performance on the podium, excuse me, is very high. So every country that does well in Olympic Games typically has some host country advantage. Home ice, home crowd, it's just more funding, et cetera. So we had trained a lot of the long track team was living in Salt Lake City and in Park City. So they were very well prepared. You have the home field advantage. And if you can think about that, whatever and all that looks like, it's a real significant advantage. So just like we're going to see in Beijing next month in February, the fact that they're hosting Olympic Games is going to give them pretty significant advantage. Now, obviously the athletes have to do their job, but yeah, I mean, we were all young. We were all at our peak condition. You know, we had a lot of technology at our fingertips that we weren't releasing to the world. So we were kind of holding that close to the chest. There was a lot of advantages.
COLIN HILDING: And one person we talked to, actually, I believe the first speed skater we talked to on the show, somebody else you're familiar with, Charles Hamlin, when we talked to him, what was that, like over four years ago, heading into Pyeongchang, he was saying, you know, this is going to be my final Olympics. Now we're heading to Beijing, it's not his final Olympics. You going into Vancouver, did you kind of make that decision, this is my final Olympics? And also, I guess, two-part question, if it had not gone the way that you would have hoped, if you would have imagined, would we have potentially seen you in Sochi? What, I guess, was the process in determining this is where I want to end my career?
APOLO OHNO: That's a good question. I never even thought about if I didn't get the result that I wanted. I was pretty sure I was ready to move on. I had made the mental switch to say, this is it. Prepare as if this is the last race of your life, as if your life is going to end after this moment. That's why I train so insane. I think it's awesome that Charles is still skating. It's actually pretty remarkable. He's kind of defied the test of time. He's not the same athlete as he was, but he's still a very formidable competitive athlete. I was ready for the next stage of my life. I knew that actually the easy path for me, guys, was to skate in 2014 and again in 2018. Physically, I had the ability to do that, and I do believe I would have made those teams. I believe I would have made this team coming into the Games. So I think I could have skated in effectively three more Olympics, and that to me would have been an easy path. I knew that blueprint. It was very familiar to me. And for me to go against the grain and go do things that are completely outside the scope of my expertise, was a part of my own personal life learning process. And I was ready for that. It was not easy, but I did so. And so it was really powerful.
BEN WATERWORTH: Colin was mentioning about that dominance in the long track and the short track from the US sort of in the 2000s. As we go into Beijing, the US actually hasn't won a gold in short track since your gold in Turin. Are we on the cusp of having the drought broken, Apolo O? Are we going to see an American gold come short track for Beijing?
APOLO OHNO: I'd like to see that. I think Kristen Santos can do and pull an upset if she's able. It's a very competitive field. A lot of the countries did not go to every single event this year. So the South Koreans and the Chinese have been kind of, I think, kind of operating because of COVID and the pandemic. They've been very selective around which competitions they send the athletes to. It's not going to be easy, but I do think we can for sure medal. And again, if Steven Bradbury can do it, like, why not?
COLIN HILDING: And, you know, one of the things that we're getting ready for the next game is you, I'm guessing, have some type of exposure to these young athletes. One of the things that we run into often on the show is we'll get these athletes who, you know, 10, 20 years ago were at the top of the game. And now they're like, it's weird that I have people who are skating the sport. And they say, I got into the sport because of you. Are there any skaters on the team that have told you, you know what, you were an influence on me? You're the reason why I'm skating?
APOLO OHNO: I think all of them in some capacity have had some influence to, you know, like watching us skate when we were growing up. I think that's natural. You know, watch, like, you know, I had the same thing. But it's very weird. I mean, it was weird to be on the same team with athletes who started skating because of you. And that happened to me towards the end of my career, where we had athletes who kind of grew up. They were inline skaters. They had watched me. They were from the same area. And now they're competitive with me and sometimes beat me. That was very, very strange.
BEN WATERWORTH: Two quick things to end the chat on. I don't really want to sit here and talk about dancing with the stars, but one thing actually that is weird to connect to you and Steven again is that you obviously went on to some reality TV shows, won a reality TV show. I don't know if you're aware that Steven went to do Survivor. He went on to Australian Survivor. Didn't do too well, unfortunately, on Steven. He got voted out fourth or fifth. Wait, why?
APOLO OHNO: Steven is the amazing, he's the most amazing survivor. I never saw that.
BEN WATERWORTH: I didn't even know that that was actually the thing.
APOLO OHNO: Wait, so what happened?
BEN WATERWORTH: So there was a season and it was basically champions versus contenders. So they kind of had a tribe of, I guess, regular Australians versus Olympians and Australian sports stars and people like that, and he basically got, he formed an alliance where he got all the athletes together. We're going to gang up on like the models and the poker players and things like that. Started off okay, but then didn't really contingency plans about people working against them. He basically called a female athlete weak to her face and then everybody went against him. So eventually got voted out.
APOLO OHNO: Oh no, it was Steven. He'll tell you exactly what he feels. He does not hold back.
BEN WATERWORTH: It was very interesting. But at the same time, he's also just released a beer. He's released his own brand of beer. So I know I saw that.
APOLO OHNO: That is also that actually is very fitting. Talk about brand.
BEN WATERWORTH: You thought about releasing a beer perhaps, Apolo, like, you know, maybe. No, no, not quite.
APOLO OHNO: I mean, yeah, not sure what I would call it.
BEN WATERWORTH: There was a brand of chocolate bars on the TV show Lost called Apolo O Bars. I saw that. Yeah.
APOLO OHNO: What would my beer brand be? If it were like a relate to the thousand metres, like when you don't want the best, we're here to provide you with something just below. Are you shooting for something below the line?
BEN WATERWORTH: I see you team up with Steven, and then you have this great ad where you're just like, Apolo O beer, it's the best. It's so good. And we're falling over, and in comes Brad Breesman to get the gold for the beer competition or something like that. So you could work in Cahoot! perhaps for that. The other one I wanted to mention, now again, as a Tasmanian, you did a film called Tasmanian Devils. Look, you obviously didn't film it in Tasmania, but tell us about working on the film Tasmanian Devils Apolo O. People don't know what it is. Basically giant magnificent creatures called Tasmanian Devils, which your blood, I believe, ignited.
APOLO OHNO: I've actually never seen it, which is interesting. So I got a call from a friend of mine who's a director, and he's like, hey, dude, you should come up here to Vancouver. We're filming this sci-fi movie. Love to throw you in it. It'd be really fun. And let's see what happens. And so that's exactly what I did. I just went up there. I basically was, I was like the finance in this movie. I was like the financier of this like jump, of this space jumping crew. And I jumped first and I actually land and die. I think like in the first like five minutes of the film.
BEN WATERWORTH: I get impaled.
APOLO OHNO: I get impaled, which is pretty nasty. But you know, it was fun. I am not an actor. Yeah, yeah.
BEN WATERWORTH: Didn't open any doors. There weren't any talks of you like, you know, appearing in anything else after that.
COLIN HILDING: Prequel spinoff.
APOLO OHNO: Yeah, yeah. Sharknado, you know, part five or something. No, no prequels or nothing like that. But the entertainment world is a very strange one. It was really hard to navigate that. And you know, after I went on that show, Dancing With The Stars, there was a lot of opportunity for me to actually participate in continuing a career in that arena. It just never... I like some of the stuff that I've done, and I've always, you know, as a part of my own reinvention, some of the stuff was really important that I basically said yes to everything, right? Because I didn't know what else I was going to do that. So I did a lot of stuff. I hosted game shows. I went on a lot of TV shows. And it was fun. But I think I like where I'm at now.
COLIN HILDING: Is there any chance we're going to be hearing you? I guess I'd be able to see it maybe not then, but are we going to be hearing you on the NBC coverage for Beijing?
APOLO OHNO: Yeah, I'll be doing some of the stuff. I won't be doing the full on live broadcast. One of my teammates, Katherine Reuter, is going to be doing that. She'll be managing. But I'll be doing some stuff live via New York and Park City, Utah, which is interesting, right? The 20th anniversary, I'll be in Park City.
BEN WATERWORTH: Is there anything around that? Do you know? Has it been much announced around the 20th anniversary of Salt Lake? Are you involved at all?
APOLO OHNO: There hasn't been a lot, which is really surprising. It's a pretty significant milestone, I think, to all of us that were competing in that time. It's also coming up on this 20th anniversary of all the things in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. So it's got some pretty heavy significance in this country. And it was also one of the highest and best performing Olympics that we've had as a country, also in terms of sentiment. So I'm on the bid committee to try to bring the games back to Salt Lake City and Park City for 2030, which I think would be a great run because the environment for the games has already been built. The infrastructure is there. The community wants to have an Olympic Games again, and they've shown that they can do so. So hopefully that will happen.
BEN WATERWORTH: Just don't talk to Colin about that. I think he's team Vancouver 2030, so you know, just rival again.
APOLO OHNO: Vancouver did an amazing job.
COLIN HILDING: If we lose it, though, I mean Salt Lake City, I can still technically drive there. As long as I can attend, that's all I care about.
BEN WATERWORTH: Both beautiful cities. Both thoroughly deserving. Now, Apolo O, before I let you go, plug your social media web people, your website, everything along those lines, and where can people find the book and get a copy of it for themselves?
APOLO OHNO: You can find the book on my website, apoloohno.com, across all social media, at apoloohno. You can buy it via Amazon, et cetera. I also recorded the audio book. It'll come out February 22nd.
BEN WATERWORTH: Great.
APOLO OHNO: And I hope people enjoy it and go and crush it.
BEN WATERWORTH: That will help people like me who can't read, so I'll be able to at least listen to it.
COLIN HILDING: I was going to say, you just got Ben as a customer.
BEN WATERWORTH: Sol Collins jokes. Apolo O, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today, mate. Thank you so much. And we look forward to actually formally inviting you to Tasmania to maybe interact with real Tasmanian devils and see that they won't impale you and turn into giant creatures if your blood touches them. Thanks, guys. And an amazing chat there from Apolo O. I just, it's just one of those people that you just want to keep saying his name. Like it's just, Apolo O, like it's such a great name. It's just such a sporting, like a commentator's dream name. You know, it's just, it's so good. Is it not? Do you just want to keep saying it?
COLIN HILDING: There were two names that I heavily pitched before we had kids, or when we were pregnant with our first Casper. And one of them was, as I've mentioned on other shows, Pierce, which Jamie agreed to until she realised I was picking for Pierce Brosnan. The other one was Apolo, which I was very close to convincing her we would have had an Apolo Hilding in our household. I mean, if your name is Apolo.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jills together well, Apolo Hilding.
COLIN HILDING: I feel like if your name's Apolo, you've got it made. You can do whatever you want.
BEN WATERWORTH: You can land on the moon.
COLIN HILDING: Is there anything Apolo Ohno hasn't done? I mean, it can't all be still, and obviously, you know, a good head on the shoulders. I mean, a lot of it has to be the name, right?
BEN WATERWORTH: He hasn't survived base jumping in Tasmania.
COLIN HILDING: Well, his character has it. We don't know if he has.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, his character didn't. His character got in the pile and ripped in half by a giant t- You're not watching the dance on this?
COLIN HILDING: Yes, but his character was not Apolo Ohno, is my point. Apolo Ohno would survive that.
BEN WATERWORTH: I can't remember his character's name, but in all seriousness, an absolute pleasure and an honour to chat to Apolo. And I'm glad we can educate him on Steven Bradbury not doing too well in Survivor. So which, you know, like seriously, I don't think you've never watched it either, but like when I say it, how I said it, it sounds like he was a dick. In all fairness, he really didn't do anything wrong. Just like if you watch it, it's hard to explain without seeing it. But let's just say we've had two Australian Winter Olympians on Australian Survivor. One of them, the esteemed Lydia Lassler, what can she not do? She came back for All Stars and both got voted out because she was a huge threat. And then there was Steven Bradbury, who sadly was like, I think 20th or 19th overall. But buy Apolo's book and I can listen to it. Because again, as we heard there, I can actually listen to it. So February 22nd, it does come out. And as Apolo O said, Amazon, it is available there, the website apoloohno.com. You can type apoloohno.com forward slash hard pivot, and you'll have it there. I really wish I actually had just brought up the whole pivot, pivot. I don't know if he's a friends fan or not, so maybe he'd kind of buy hard pivot, pivot, and go that way. But as we said at the beginning, and this is now the last interview we will have, because tomorrow, we are dropping two episodes in a day. Two episodes. We've had a couple this week. We've had two in a day. We've had so many coming out that we're dropping two tomorrow. Our Beijing preview episode, it's massive, it's huge. Our biggest preview episode that we've ever done, it's gonna be in-depth and exciting. Kind of has to be, because one of us is sort of having to be in-depth and exciting for his role during the Olympics. And then the other one that we're having is sort of a, it's a clip show. We love a clip show here on Off The Podium. That's why we get nominated for awards. We'll talk about that in a minute. We are going to be playing clips and highlights from all of the athletes that we have had on the show that are gonna be competing in Beijing. Now, when we say that, it's going to be the athletes who have had in between Pyeongchang and Beijing. So for example, we had a couple of athletes pre-Pyeongchang who are going to be in Beijing, and obviously they were talking about Pyeongchang, so it wouldn't really make sense. He liked Charles Hamlin, you know, Keanu Crane, things like that. So people like that won't be heard, but we'll still cheer them on. But it's clip show, put them all together, and then basically that's just so people who can listen to us during the Olympics can remember, hey, that's why they didn't win any medals, because they were not off the podium.
COLIN HILDING: This is us just solidifying the curse. I feel like we should have had more discussions in our production meetings about this, Ben.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I think we've already had like, what, three or four at the time of recording this that we've had on who have sadly not qualified for the Olympics. So, you know.
COLIN HILDING: We apologise, Ben apologises.
BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly, but are you pumped, Colin? I mean, you know, spoiler alert, we're recording this about two weeks out from the Olympics, but we're obviously getting to that phase now where you can sniff it, you can sniff the snow, you can sniff the Great Wall, Colin, the bird's nest is back, the water cube, it's down the ice cube, like get excited, the Olympics are here.
COLIN HILDING: I have been looking up the schedule and predetermining which days I actually want to wake up at two o'clock in the morning to watch certain events. So yeah, I'm going to be ready. I'm going to be all over the place. I'm going to be sleeping at odd hours, getting this done, hopefully recording at odd hours too. I don't know, we'll see. But I mean, yes, I can sniff it too, Ben.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, well, I'm glad. Sorry, I didn't put any deodorant on, but I mean, it's the real Olympics. The real Olympics are here. And it's very, very exciting. I mean, again, time recording this, we're literally at that phase where all the teams are officially being announced now, which is exciting. And just the chances that are gonna happen, I mean, we'll talk about this in the previous episode, of course, tomorrow, you know, Canada, this is your time to shine. This is like us in the Summer Olympics, as obviously you in the winter, you got all these great things, and we're coming into this, and I'm calling this, I'll talk about this tomorrow, but we're not only gonna break the golden drought, we're gonna, you know, it's been 12 years since Australia's tasted gold, we're gonna break the rule of three. I'm sick of us winning only three medals. This year, four. I'm saying right now, like, I'm gonna maybe go even one up from that.
COLIN HILDING: I'm going five.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, we'll talk about it tomorrow, but I'm just like, think about our history, all right, Colin. 94, one, 98, one, 2002, two, 2006, two, 2010, three, 2014, three, 2018, three, it's time to go for four, all right?
COLIN HILDING: I think the math we really need to work out is how many Olympians represent Australia have we not had on the show? That's how many medals we're gonna win.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, in all fairness, we'll talk about this in the preview episode, but we've actually, if you work out percentage-wise, we've interviewed a fair chunk of this team. So we're probably gonna come away with none based on that logic. So yeah, but we obviously, Jarrah will join us. Very pumped for it. We're very excited. And can I just also give a shout out, everyone in Australia, watch Channel 7. What a great network they are. They are gonna be providing such in-depth coverage of the Olympics. They really, really are. And there is no better network you will want to ever watch in anywhere in the world than Channel 7. It's the home of the Olympics in Australia. And what a great network, particularly Joanna Griggs. I think 12 to two every day, she'll be on air. Got some very great company with her, working with her very closely. So just felt like saying it. No, no.
COLIN HILDING: Let's all watch the closing credits to see if one of the host's names happens to appear on Channel 7.
BEN WATERWORTH: Jarrod Lubick, there he is. What an esteemed guy. But one thing I should also quickly mention as well is, it feels weird saying this, because if you're listening to this episode, you're obviously hearing it before and after. We've got a plug telling everyone to vote for us. This is the first time we've actually had an opportunity to talk about this in terms of an episode recorded, but we're up for another award, a sports podcast award this time around. And this one, you can vote on. You can actually jump online and you can vote for this one. This is where the real awards come in. None of those experts at the freaking Australian podcast awards are. We don't deem you in the top three. Well, screw you guys. We're going for the real awards, the sports podcast awards. The great history that it's got. It's the first year it's ever been in place. So we're gonna aim to be the inaugural winner of the best Olympics and Paralympic podcasts. We're up for it. How are you feeling about this, Colin? You're pumped, we're at the time of recording this, we're still leading the vote. So like, we're moving with a chance.
COLIN HILDING: I've had a couple of people I've asked to vote who have. The last one was one of our co-sign, another one of our podcasts. Rocky? Well, yeah, and let's just say one of our loyal listeners, Anthony Rocky. Yay. He sent me a message, he said he voted for us and that we were still in the lead at the time. So more Rockies out there, vote for us.
BEN WATERWORTH: Exactly, and all you have to do, sportspodcastwards.com, you hear us talk about it at the end and the beginning, of course. But you have to simply sign up and then you just click on vote now, you click on the Olympics and Paralympics category, you click on us, we're called Off The Podium, just in case you didn't realise that, and click vote, that's simple, done. And you can vote for the other categories if you want. Just, you know, if you're feeling up to it. I mean, personally, if I was voting for the best combat sports podcast, I also would be voting for Fight Disciples. It's a great podcast, really good. And my tip for best sports business podcast is Sports Pro Podcast. Great show. Listen to them, Def Man. You listen to that regularly, don't you?
COLIN HILDING: Well, I'm just gonna say I'm excited. I don't know if I mentioned this to you or not, but I'm excited that we are up for an award that another of my fellow Winnipeggers and fellow Dancing With The Stars contestants, Chris Jericho is up for. And I'm proud to say that we're doing better in our category than Chris Jericho is doing in his. So bring this award home so Colin can be the most successful podcast host from Winnipeg.
BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I mean, there's only two of you, so that's not actually too bad.
COLIN HILDING: The other one's Chris Jericho. I mean, I don't care if there's only two of us. I'm gonna beat Chris Jericho.
BEN WATERWORTH: You're gonna beat, well, don't say that too loud. He'll hunt you down. I'm pretty sure if there was a category of who's going to beat someone between Colin Hilding and Chris Jericho, I think Chris Jericho would probably beat Colin Hilding quite significantly in many ways. I know Michael Johnson's up for an award. He has a podcast. It's not in the Olympics category, thank God. But actually, in all seriousness, the only other podcast I actually listen to, because I don't listen to podcasts. Podcasts are crap, who listens to podcasts? F1 Beyond The Grid, I listen to that podcast. Currently coming second in the motorsports category. So come on everybody, vote for them as well. But and to all our fellow category nominees, good luck to you all as well. I don't want to be dicks, like we were over on the Australian, whatever that one was. My new favorite Olympian, Destination Tokyo, the Olympic mile, equal to achieving disability equality, keep the flame alive, my defining moments and winning mindset lessons from the Paralympics all up as well. But I'm not trying to tell you to vote for them, because don't vote for them, vote for us. But congratulations to them for being nominated as well.
COLIN HILDING: Unless they win, in which case we told you to vote for them.
BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, exactly. If we win, we will thank all of you for being great podcasts. If we lose, we will sulk and we will throw shit like Colin did. Like we will throw chairs and we will bag you out moving forward. sportspodcastsawards.com, vote for us right now. If you missed any of our great interviews, had plenty dropping this week. Several members of the Australian team and also Canadian team as well. Previously, American team. A lot of people that we've had on the show recently going to the Winter Olympics and tomorrow. Best preview you'll ever listen to ever. And also a clip show, which just shows us jinxing everybody there as well. Colin, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. I don't know why I'm thanking you, but, you know.
COLIN HILDING: Again, you can find my book online at my website, colinhills.com.
BEN WATERWORTH: Audio book version?
COLIN HILDING: I'll work on the audio book version. I do want you to give it a review for it eventually.
BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, good. I'm glad. And also, if you want to watch this interview in video form, not this part, because this part doesn't make the video one. This part's shit. If you want to listen to the good part with Apolo in it and stare at Apolo, then you can find it on our YouTube channel as well. And thanks to everybody who's given us great feedback on the YouTube channel as well. This is Off The Podium. We're back tomorrow. So much to come. Beijing's nearly here. Thanks again to Apolo. And thanks for listening. Special shout out to J-J-J-J-J-Mason. That's his name. J-M-M-Mason Momoa. And as always, go left.
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