Ali Abdo Interview

It's time to return to the sport of wrestling as we speak to three-time Australian Olympic Wrestler Ali Abdo about his amazing career! We find out from Ali just how he got into the sport and how being in his final year of high school helped him towards his ultimate goal of being an Olympian. We also find out about the unique way he always found himself qualifying for each of his Olympics, as well as what it took to switch between both Greco-Roman and Freestyle. Added to this we learn about just what it will take to break Australia's long medal drought in the sport and whether or not Ali might be tempted to come out of retirement to give another Olympics a crack. It's a great chat that you simply can't miss!

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Please note this is an automated transcript that may contain errors.

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BEN WATERWORTH: It is Off The Podium, an Olympics podcast coming to you once again for an athlete interview. We are returning to the sport of wrestling today as we speak to three-time Australian Olympian, Ali Abdo, competed at the Sydney, the Athens, and the Beijing Olympics. And I don't need to compete in three different Olympics. He competed in two different versions of wrestling, both Greco-Roman and freestyle. And it's a fascinating story how Ali was able to do that. He goes into detail about qualifying for Sydney in Greco-Roman, a style that he generally wasn't training in and why he had to do that. And then ultimately his experiences in both Athens and Beijing. Very fascinating his qualifying journey. Never a standard qualifier Ali was throughout his three Olympics. So it's interesting to see there and how close he did become to being a four time Olympian sort of in the lead up to London as well. Also talk a little bit about the sport in Australia, where we're at. And I correct myself back when we spoke with Jaden and Connor before Tokyo, I may have made a false assumption about the sport of wrestling and the history of the Olympics for Australia. So something that we touch on a little bit in this interview as well. So without further ado, here's our chat with three time Olympic wrestler Ali Abdo.

BEN WATERWORTH: Very excited today to return to the sport of wrestling. We haven't actually talked to any wrestlers on this show, I think, before Tokyo. It's been that long since we've managed to talk about the sport, but very excited to learn a little bit more today about our guests' astounding career. Three-time Olympian competed at the Sydney, Athens, and Beijing Olympics. And not just in one form of wrestling, two forms of wrestling, both Greco-Roman and freestyle. And I'm very intrigued to learn all about the changes between the two and everything else in between in his amazing career. Please welcome to Off The Podium, Ali Abdo. Ali, first of all, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you on the show today.

ALI ABDO: Thank you very much, mate.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's exciting to talk about the sport because we haven't spoken about it in a while. And I think you're actually our first Olympian from wrestling in terms of who we've actually spoken to on the show and the fact that you've actually been to the Olympics. We spoke to Jaden Lawrence and Connor Evans sort of just before Tokyo. Unfortunately, they obviously didn't quite make it to the Olympics. But you've obviously been to three, so an astounding career that we're here to talk about. But I'd love to learn just from the very beginning, what brought you into the sport of wrestling? How did you even get involved on this amazing journey that took you to three Olympic Games?

ALI ABDO: My father is a wrestler himself, he was a wrestler. Basically, me and my brother used to just go in and watch my dad wrestle, jump on each other here and there. And then as the years ticked on, me and my brother just started to kind of take part in classes. And yeah, just kind of ventuated from there, to be honest. I mean, we basically actively got involved from about nine, ten years of age. And then, yeah, just progressed from there.

BEN WATERWORTH: And in terms of sort of watching your dad and kind of everything that he was doing there, was there something about it that appealed to you? Was it just a case because, oh, dad's doing something cool, I want to do it? Did you kind of like the look of it, see how it felt when you kind of got out there on the mat and gave it a bit of a try?

ALI ABDO: No, it was actually, I think it was more just my dad leading the way. I think my dad was probably trying to instil the sport in us. I'm not going to say it was my preferred sport early on in the years, but yeah, I mean, just kids like to wrestle as well, jump on each other, grapple a bit. So there was some, I guess, interest in the sport at that point. But I think early on I was dabbling in wrestling, soccer, AFL footy. And yeah, I think once I got into my teenage years, then I started to become a bit more responsible, I guess, and committed. But yeah, in the early days, I think it was more my dad leading the way and just basically getting me involved in the sport.

BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of the other sports that you were mentioning you were playing, I mean, kind of how were you progressing in those? Were they sort of, you know, could we have seen you out there competing for Australia at a World Cup, pulling on an AFL Guernsey at one point or things like that?

ALI ABDO: Look, I was fortunate enough that I was able to adapt. And I think it's because I was wrestling, because I started wrestling pretty young. I was athletically able to adapt to other sports. But AFL 40, I was doing alright. I think people likened me to the Tony Liberatore. The little short stocky, you know, the tackler, always sitting in the back pocket, you know. So, I mean, look, possibly, who knows? But yeah, I think it was wrestling that just... I think that's where I showed talent and I stuck at it.

BEN WATERWORTH: I've got to ask the deal breaker question right now, Ali, on the topic of AFL. Who's your team? Who do you support in the footy?

ALI ABDO: Look, I've weaned off, mate, but I grew up probably following Carlton.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, well, hey, hey, smart man. There you go. What a first intelligent guest on the show, Ali. There you go. You can stay. You're welcome. Just keep on the show. There you go. That's the right answer on Off The Podium. So there you go. It's all right. We'll get there eventually. We've been saying that now for 26 years, so it's all good. But at what point then sort of with the wrestling, you mentioned kind of into your teenage years, were you going to competitions? Were you realising that this is something that you could kind of pursue a little bit more and kind of, you know, when you were getting a bit of success in it, was it then or did you just start to sort of really enjoy it more and kind of want to just focus purely on the wrestling side of things?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, I think it was probably the age of about 14, 14 to 15. That's when I started to win like kind of like, you know, junior or school age type national championships. And, you know, for someone that wins, once you win a national championship in any category, I think that's quite exciting, rewarding. And, you know, it gives you a hunger for the next step, the next stage. So I think I was probably about 17, maybe when I first competed in my senior event. And, you know, I showed some sort of, I guess if you want to say potential as a young, as a young, as a young wrestler competing in the senior levels. So, you know, it gave me more reason to hang on and persevere and, you know, push through. And, yeah, so I'd say mid teenage years is when I just took the reins and just started, you know, putting in the hours.

BEN WATERWORTH: And was that at some point then when all of a sudden the Olympics became a possibility? Had you sort of grown up kind of paying attention to wrestling and the Olympics thinking this would be something good? Or when you were starting to reach those levels, national championships, senior teams, was that when all of a sudden you thought, hey, possibility I could go to an Olympic Games right now?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, definitely. It was probably the age of 17. So I was 19 when I got in. So I think I was in year 12 at the time. And I knew the Olympics was in Sydney. And basically, because it was being held in Sydney or Australia, so the qualification is a little bit different. You win Nationals, Oceania, bang, straight in. So yeah, the chances of making it were, you know, was high. So yeah, from about 17 onwards, that's when I started to like, I think 18, I won a senior competition at 18, and then again at 19, and then yeah, it just went on from there. So yeah, it wasn't always something I wanted to, like I had vision, like not as a 15 year old or 14 year old. Probably once I got to about year 12, you know, 17 years of age.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's a pretty cool thing to have in year 12 though, when you know, you're at that age, and a lot of people are trying to work out what their next step is after year 12. Do I do uni? Do I do a gap year? Kind of what do I do there? And all of a sudden you've got that, hey, well hang on a minute, the Olympics, that's achieved a couple of years away, why not? So, I mean, not a bad thing to look forward to when you're in year 12.

ALI ABDO: I mean, year 12 was the first year I actually represented Australia at the World Championships. And that was at Las Vegas. So for me, that was huge. That was enough for me to, you know, just to kind of inspire me to keep going, you know? So, yeah, I went to the first World Senior Championships and got a taste of the elite level, the high level. And, you know, the following year, I had a really good year as well, competed in the Senior World Championships as well. In one year, I think in 2019, I competed in Juniors and Senior World Championships. So, you know, those late teenage years were a breakthrough for me. And, yeah, it just, you know, went from there.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which I can imagine to coming from a country like Australia where, you know, competing in the world stage when you're going up against a lot of these sort of European nations where wrestling is obviously a bit of a bigger deal than it is in Australia. Kind of what's that like when you go to your first sort of world tournament and you're coming up against these athletes? I mean, the standard, I mean, of wrestling, does it kind of blow you away? Do you realise sort of, you know, how Australian wrestling is comparing to these nations who are dominating? I mean, kind of what's that experience like, that first taste of kind of coming up against competitors like that?

ALI ABDO: You know, is it the first time? It's intimidating, to be honest. You know, these guys live it, breathe it, sleep it. You know, they're training full-time. And, you know, here in Australia, you're having to study or work and train. So you're juggling many commitments. And, you know, obviously that's going to... And you're not getting much support, especially in the sport of wrestling. You know, I would have loved to have gone overseas and spent some time overseas and trained and developed my wrestling overseas as well. But, you know, you don't get the support. You don't have the resources. But, yeah, it's... The level is... There's a fair bit of discrepancy between Australian level and, you know, let's say, for instance, European level, or even the American level. It's in the high schools, it's in the colleges, it's in the universities, you know. So... Yeah, it's... Yeah, there's quite a bit of difference, you know. But it doesn't stop you from... You know, you don't go in there conceding defeat, you know. You just... You just still do the work. I was fortunate enough that I did go overseas. I did train a little bit here and there, but not to the level that I would have loved to have.

BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of... I mentioned in the intro, you started in Greco-Roman, eventually went to freestyle. Were you sort of... Do you train in both? Can you train in both? Is that a thing when you kind of focus on Greco-Roman and then you make that decision to switch to freestyle? How does that work?

ALI ABDO: I've always been a freestyle wrestler. But what happened was I lost the freestyle division when I was trying out for Sydney to someone who was much older. And, you know, there's always the opportunity... Because in Australia, we're heavily... We're more, I guess, we're more freestyle. Definitely not Greco-Roman focus. So a lot of people, what they do sometimes is compete in both just to get more matches, more bouts under the belts. And I decided to, you know, okay, I lost. I got second place. I'm going to try out for Greco-Roman. So I just switched styles on the day, and I ended up winning that one. So that's when I just committed, you know, for the next six to eight months, purely. Probably 90% of my training was Greco-Roman. And I was fortunate enough.

BEN WATERWORTH: Is that difficult then when you got to switch focus in? How difficult is that to kind of switch that?

ALI ABDO: Excuse me. It's different. The style is different. The whole, I guess the... There's a lot of discrepancy. You know, your stance is different. The attacks, the moves, things that you can, things that you can't do, you know. I'm used to being kind of shooting for legs, double legs picking up. Greco-Roman, that's all out the window. You know, you can only attack from the waist up.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which, do you forget sometimes when you're in Greco-Roman? You go, shit, whoops, I shouldn't have gone for the legs all of a sudden. This is wrong.

ALI ABDO: Look, I guess if you get picked up and you're about to get launched, you'll grab onto anything.

BEN WATERWORTH: Just go for it. They may have to quickly say to the refs, sorry, like you.

ALI ABDO: Just an accident, you know. But generally, like once you know you're doing Greco-Roman, you're not going to switch to a freestyle stance because it's quite a discrepancy. One's low, one's high, you know. But yeah, there's definitely different, there's quite a discrepancy.

BEN WATERWORTH: And in terms of just outside of the styles, when it comes to say training outside of just wrestling with people in the gym, I mean, because you're sort of more, you're working on the upper body, is that a different training? Like when you're hitting the gym, are you having to kind of work on different parts of the body if you would be going to an Olympics as a freestyle wrestler?

ALI ABDO: I guess to some degree, yeah, definitely. You know, because I mean, with Grek Oraman, it's heavily dependent, as you mentioned, on upper body strength. You know, so stuff that you do off the mat will be a little bit different to what you do, say, for a freestyler. You know, you need more explosiveness with freestyle. You know, being able to be more agile, shooting, you know, changing levels. You know, whereas you don't need to do your watch, you watch a freestyle match compared to a Greco-Roman, the tenacity is different, the tempo is different. Freestyle is like, you know, especially in the lighter weight, it's like two cats going at one another. You know, whereas Greco-Roman is a lot slower.

BEN WATERWORTH: In terms of when you got that spot, then you're at the Olympics, you're going to your first games, do you remember kind of that feeling, that sort of that moment you realised that you were at that point, were an Olympian, and also how was that then, your dad finding out your brother, your family kind of, you know, it's almost like a bit of a family business, it sounds, Ali, so I mean, I can imagine that must be a pretty special feeling for the family as well.

ALI ABDO: My dad was wrapped. I think his workplace made a big deal out of it as well, you know, given the pedigree of wrestling within the family. You know, I still remember the day, you know, a lot of family, a lot of friends, the trials were in Melbourne, so yeah, it was a big deal back then. You know, my dad was super excited. I mean, my brother had retired. That inspired him to come back, you know. And, you know, his claim to fame was also making the Commonwealth Games back in 2010. So he had a good comeback. So yeah, definitely quite a bit of a pedigree in the family.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, pretty good comeback then to, what, 10 years later make a Commonwealth Games team.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I think he retired like 15 or 16. What's that, 10 years ago?

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, so how old would he have been?

ALI ABDO: He probably would have been about 30 years of age.

BEN WATERWORTH: Incredible. Wow, that's amazing. Is it a sport that kind of you can keep going sort of on in age? Like, is it kind of one that's sort of really age dependent, like the most athletes are in their 20s, kind of your peak in a certain age? Or how does that kind of work?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, you know, it's very dependent. But if you're going to go on average, you'd probably say, you know, by the by the by late 20s, you know, 30, early 30s, you're almost just about done, you know. But once you go, if you if you start looking at heavyweights, especially in the Greco-Roman, because it's much slower, less athleticism is required. You'll find that some guys can go into the late 30s. Yeah, especially in the Greco-Roman.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's incredible. That's incredible.

ALI ABDO: Speed is not required. Just strength and technique, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which, I mean, that must be incredible to kind of watch. And if you got some sort of wrestlers, maybe, you know, in their late 30s up against some fresh kids or something, kind of, you know, going at it young. Like, I mean, that kind of it's not often you get that, and especially in combat sports as well.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, for sure. We had this year, this year's Olympics, we had a Cuban. We won his fourth Olympic gold.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right, yeah, I remember that.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, Greco-Roman. And I think he was about 38 years of age. So that's quite impressive.

BEN WATERWORTH: Insane. So you're just, you're just at age, Ali, you're just what? Just 40 now. I mean, you could still be going, right? Like, what's going on? Like, I mean, you could have been there in Tokyo.

ALI ABDO: I think with the level of commitment, my work-layered family and all the rest of it, I think I left it to the young ones.

BEN WATERWORTH: As we keep bringing up, Andrew Hoy was 62 at Tokyo, won two medals. So look, you know, you're still a spring chicken. What's going on?

ALI ABDO: Got to take up another sport for him to stay till 60.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, exactly. Equestrian. You could be riding horses in Brisbane. Another home Olympics. Never say never, never say never. What was the experience like though? We always like hearing sort of about Olympic experiences and obviously not about Olympics. Make your debut at a home Olympics as well. I mean, sort of outside of the competition thing, do you remember sort of much around the hype? And I mean, if you did the opening ceremony, things like that. I mean, I can imagine that's an incredible experience to have your first Olympics at home.

ALI ABDO: It was quite an electric experience, you know, going out in the opening ceremony. Even like, you know, days off, not days off, but times you walk out into Darling Harbour, you know, you get a lot of, I guess, attention from the public, you know. Yeah, at 19 years of age, you know, especially in the sport of wrestling, you got a lot of recognition, you know. Outside of the Olympics, no one knows what wrestling is. No one knows, not to say you do it for recognition, but you're definitely not walking the streets like an AFL football player.

BEN WATERWORTH: And also I can imagine then too, just for the sport in general, to have crowds like that in Sydney. I mean, because I can't imagine that Australia would have ever had or maybe since, unless maybe Commonwealth Games, a crowd like that to come and watch wrestling.

ALI ABDO: And saying that, I mean, I was... Ruin HJ took the piss out of me, you know, in one of my matches.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, so you were one of the ones I commentated on, were you? Wow, okay. I remember it vividly. Like, I remember their commentary, of course, but I didn't realise that you were in one of the commentary ones. That must have been an interesting experience.

ALI ABDO: That was quite interesting, you know. I guess any publicity is good publicity.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which, I mean, look, I just remember things like the dog and all that kind of stuff that they did.

ALI ABDO: Pretty much, yeah.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, the exposure that it kind of gave to it there. But I mean, like, as you say, any publicity is good publicity. I mean, people maybe have a bit of a laugh and go, okay, this sport's a bit strange, but it does at least show the sport. I mean, growing up, it was obviously very popular during those Olympics. So all of a sudden, people might have wanted to tune in a little bit more and watch it a bit more.

ALI ABDO: Even when people used to ask me, oh, what do you do? I said, I do wrestling, and everyone straight away would say, oh, Greco-Roman, only because that's what got the bad rap in the Olympics, when they go the dog and all that kind of positions and stuff. So I guess, yeah, I think that made an impression on the public.

BEN WATERWORTH: We did some fun commentary during Tokyo, and we did wrestling one day, and look, we did so much that I can't remember exactly what we did, but I can't say we went the Roy and HG route and kind of went that side of things, but it was fun. I think that's what we did. We brought in introduction music. We kind of went full WWE style. We brought in, like, as they're walking to the mat, like bring in some, you know, play the Hulk theme, Hulk Hogan and all that kind of stuff, like pump it up a little bit, bring the intro music. That kind of works. But when it came to the competition side of things, do you set yourself a goal going into it? Do you sort of want to get to a certain stage? I mean, kind of what were your hopes in competing at your first Olympics back in Sydney?

ALI ABDO: I guess, um, look, I just, I guess, like, healing, you know, you want to do your best, that's the key. You know, I understand I was, like, the youngest on the team, so the pressure wasn't all on me. Um, you know, I did all the preparation, all the work I could do. I deferred from uni at the time. You know, I went overseas. I trained a bit overseas. So, um, I went in very prepared, you know, but it was just unfortunate. I struck the two-time gold medallist in the first round. So, um, and, uh, yeah, that was quite an experience. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was awesome. Uh, but, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it was, uh, it was a good, uh, it was a good first experience to know what calibre you're up against or, you know, what level you need to be at. You know, so it was a good benchmark for me.

BEN WATERWORTH: And does that, going up against him, uh, now, please correct me how I'm going to butcher his name, Phil Berto. Is it as koi, as kui?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, something, koozie.

BEN WATERWORTH: Koozie, yeah, yeah, we're just calling him Phil Berto. That's the easiest way from, um, from Cuba. But I mean, do you kind of get a sense of pride going on to watch him win a gold saying like, hey, at least I got beaten by the gold, I got beaten by the best.

ALI ABDO: 100%, 100%. You know, and the way he beat me, you know, almost, I must say it flawlessly, he beat the guy in the final the same way. You know, and I was like, and the only person that got close to him is the guy that was in my bracket as well.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right, right.

ALI ABDO: I wrestled him as well. So I had, I would have to say it's fair to say they were the two toughest guys in the division. And back then, we were in a bracket of three. You know, the person that wins the matches progresses on to the next.

BEN WATERWORTH: So it's not a straight knockout, because is it a straight knockout now?

ALI ABDO: No, it wasn't a straight knockout. I mean, I guess if you lose, if you lose one match, and the guy progresses to the finals, you got something called a repert charge.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right, yes. You still got a chance to go for bronze. We always like to talk about repercharges in sports where there are, because sometimes it's interesting to see that you can sort of lose and then come back. I mean, is that just a standard thing in sport of wrestling, that a repert charge is always at international competitions?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, as far as I can remember, because if I come up against a gold medallist first match, rather than just losing all hope, you still have a chance for going for bronze. You're not going to have another chance for going for gold. So if your first match, if the guy progresses, then yeah, you get given a chance, which I think is fair. Only one time I lost, I think I lost to one, I beat one guy, and somehow I met him again in the final.

BEN WATERWORTH: Okay.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I think there was about five of us, five or six of us wrestling. I don't know how it happened. Unfortunately, I lost to him in the final by a point. But yeah, I still wonder how that happened. It doesn't normally happen.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's because I just, yeah, it's something we've often talked about and kind of just how it kind of works with some of these things. And it's, yeah, because I mean, it is interesting to think that, I mean, we've talked to a few boxers on the show and you get to all that effort, you get to one bout, and then you're done. That's it, kind of one bout, you're out. And so I guess it kind of, it's that level playing field and knowing that you kind of, you're not working to this level where all of a sudden your Olympic experience can be over in a couple of minutes. You've trained four years and it's done. Two minutes and you're out.

ALI ABDO: I mean, now, like now, if I've wrestled someone now, let's say, first round, and they lose maybe their second match or their third match, well, that's how I'm done. That means I basically fall in the same category where I've literally gone there, had one match and I'm done. You know? Well, yeah, it's, you know, that's sport.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's just what it is, you know? It kind of, yeah, balances out in certain ways in that. So do you leave Sydney then? How do you feel? Like, do you feel, okay, I competed my best, let's just switch focus to the next Olympics? Kind of, was it straight away like, cool, I like this experience, I've done this once, this is going to be something that I'm going to go there towards?

ALI ABDO: Definitely. Like I said, after I had the first experience, then the goal was definitely the next Olympics, you know? And, you know, the second Olympics, I was a, I guess I was very fortunate. I actually lost the trials, but because the person that qualified was medically unfit, then I stepped up. And he wasn't like a fellow Australian, it was more like, I mean, he was a fellow Australian, got naturalised, but was another guy from Uzbekistan. And, you know, the Uzbeks are very good, very recognised for their wrestling, and yeah, it was the better wrestling of the day.

BEN WATERWORTH: It's all the Stans, right? All the Stans love their wrestling. It's all those countries with Stan. When it comes to then getting that call up, I mean, how is it, how long was that when you kind of didn't qualify, then all of a sudden you get the call up to say, actually, no, you are going to make the team and kind of, what's that feeling like from the disappointment of not qualifying to then all of a sudden getting that call up, okay, you're going to another Olympic Games?

ALI ABDO: Like it was, it wasn't as one would expect because the guy that qualified was actually a fellow teammate from the same gym. So he became naturalised through me because we wrestled off in the World Championships like five years ago, five years previous. We brought him out to train me up for the Sydney Olympics. Was Sydney, yeah, I think it was a bit of Sydney, Sydney preparation, sorry, preparation for the Sydney Olympics. The trials, I should say. And yeah, and then I mean, he liked Australia and he stayed, you know, so we were teammates basically from the same club. So I was quite happy that I made it, but it was also a bit of sweet because I was disheartened for him. Because I know what it's like to actually, you know, I know the joy of getting that call up and say, you know, you've made the team. So, you know, that's what we work for as amateur wrestlers. That's the stage we're after, you know, the Olympic stage. So, yeah, I was happy, I was excited. But, yeah, so disappointing on him. But, you know, 12 years later, he ended up making it to Rio.

BEN WATERWORTH: Great. There you go. Kind of worked out eventually. Is that that longevity kind of going back to what we were saying before about your brother? I mean, 10 years, 12 years, like, geez, wow, this is like, it's kind of those, it keeps going on.

ALI ABDO: The key is consistency. As long as you keep training, keep moving, you know, that was your touch. You know, you might be a little bit rusty initially, but, you know, as long as you've got the foundation, you can always build on it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Now, you obviously at this point, going to Athens or in freestyle, the event that obviously we were talking about before, but it's a higher weight category. You're now in the 74 kilogram. Was that an active choice in between when it changed to... They changed it?

ALI ABDO: They ended up being like 66 or 74.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, that's a big discrepancy. That's not really, you know, much to kind of go there. And is that a case of then it comes from that you would rather be in a heavier one to kind of with the weight management rather than lose it? Like, is it easier to kind of gain it? Is that how it works?

ALI ABDO: Physically, I could not lose another three kilos. I was like a greyhound at 69. You know, and there was no chance. Although in America, they said, if you were wrestling with us, we would make you a 66. But I guess that would be a different commitment altogether. You know, your body composition would change by the way they train. But yeah, I went up to 74, put on some muscle mass, and yeah, for me, it was a lot better because by that time, I started to fill out a bit more. I started weighing at 78, 79, cutting down at 74. So yeah, 74 was my weight for a long time.

BEN WATERWORTH: And in terms of when you got that call up, how close was that to the Olympics? Sort of how much warning do you have?

ALI ABDO: I think it was like somewhere around the... I remember it was the start of the year I got the call up. I think it would have been five months or six months thereabouts.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, okay. And so from that point in, is it just like go, go, go, hit the gym back to... I mean, not saying you weren't already, but I mean, I can imagine it's kind of like, shit, better get...

ALI ABDO: Yeah, 100%. Your focus is different and... Yeah, your mindset's different.

BEN WATERWORTH: And does that then also change having experienced an Olympics? And going back to my point about, you know, you're experiencing everything around it. It's obviously a lot different, I can imagine, to a World Championships. You know, all the pressure and everything that comes with being at the Olympics, do you kind of go into Athens End feeling a bit different? Like, oh, this is... I've done this before now, so I kind of know what the village is going to be like. I know what an opening's like. I know these things now, so I can focus more on the competition.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, definitely. You definitely have more sense of what to expect. But, you know, once again, you know, but when it comes to competition, as Aussies were the underdogs, so the pressure's not on us, you know. You know, so you still go out there. It's, you just, you go out there, give it your all, and, you know, you leave it on the mat. You know, that's all you can do, you know. Yeah, but, you know, like, at the time, I was still at uni, you know, all three campaigns. I was a full-time uni student, so I mean, it's, yeah, it's a juggling act. Yeah, so your preparation can only be so much.

BEN WATERWORTH: And do you have to then take a break from study, or do you take study with you to Athens? I mean, I'm sure you don't want to study in the middle of an Olympics, but...

ALI ABDO: No chance. The first, my first Olympics, I actually deferred a semester.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

ALI ABDO: And then the second time, I think I went part-time. And then the third Olympics, I was studying my fourth year in osteopathy. And that was a big year. That was huge. But they advised me, they said, look, don't defer. You know, we'll worry about it when you come back. So the uni, Vic Uni, was quite supportive.

BEN WATERWORTH: Well, I can imagine that's a pretty like... I'm sure you get a lot of students going in there, I need to do this, I need to do that, I defer, blah, blah, blah. But if you turn around and say, I'm going to an Olympics, I think they might... Oh, OK, well, that's all right then.

ALI ABDO: That's about what it's used.

BEN WATERWORTH: I mean, you know, there's a few things that I think possibly they might not be frowning upon, and it's quite the opposite, right?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, Vic Uni is known for their sports encouragement, and that they embrace sports and things like that. They're aligned with the Footscray Bulldogs. They got a great sports facility. So, I mean, look, they love it, you know? And I got a lot of support from them, a little bit financially as well, so... Great. They helped with the process.

BEN WATERWORTH: So that kind of... I mean, it's those sort of little mental things that kind of help where you're not stressing out over... Because, I mean, going back to your point that, you know, wrestling is obviously not a massive sport in Australia, so you're financing a lot of this yourself. You're doing this in your spare time. It's not like, yeah, you're an AFL player or a swimmer or something where you're getting supported. So you kind of have to also have that mindset of, this isn't going to be my career. I need to focus on something that is going to be my career at the same time as pursuing this passion of mine.

ALI ABDO: That's always been the case. You know, I knew wrestling is not going to make me rich, you know, so I had to lay the foundations for after sport. And that's where my studies came in, and I spent a lot of years at uni. Not the pathway I intended, or not the years I intended, but it just went from studying human movement, exercise rehab, to osteo. It took me 10 years or so to complete all that.

BEN WATERWORTH: One thing that I can imagine would be fascinating. So in Sydney, you're one of many wrestlers for Australia at those Olympics. Australia had a lot of wrestlers. In Athens, I believe you were the only wrestler from Australia at those Olympics. How is that experience when you've probably got a bunch of teammates, and you kind of got that camaraderie and all that kind of stuff in Sydney, to all of a sudden, you're it. You're the one representative for the sport at an Olympic Games. How's that?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, I must admit, it was a little bit more boring than Sydney. It was actually just me and my coach, basically. So, yeah, it was a little bit of a different experience. But I still tried to enjoy it and embrace it. And the downfall with wrestling at the Olympics, wrestling is always at the end of the Olympic Games. So you're getting like maybe a week before the opening ceremony, and you're training, and you're dieting, and you can't let loose, you know, because you're still managing your weight.

BEN WATERWORTH: You can't hit the McDonald's in the village, right?

ALI ABDO: But yeah, it's still an enjoyable experience, and yeah, it was great.

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you kind of, when it comes to the village experience and sort of your fellow Australian teammates, as a solitary athlete from your sport, do you hang out with other sports where maybe they don't have like weightlifting if they've only got a couple of, you know, athletes, taekwondo, judo, like maybe sports where they've only got a couple of athletes and kind of buddy up with them to be like, hey, like, you know, let's hang out. Let's go grab some salad or something.

ALI ABDO: Look, to some degree, because I mean, they're still focusing on preparation and training. Everyone's got a different schedule as well. You know, I think I was in the same compound as the weightlifters in Athens, so there was a bit more connection with the weightlifters. I believe the Taekwondo was in the compound across the road. So, you know, you connect with some of them. The judo guys, you know, we're pretty close with the judo guys. Some of them have cross-trained with wrestling. So, you know, you still connect, and you still have some connection with other athletes. But because your competition is towards the end, there's too much focus and too much, you know, you literally wake up in the morning, you might do a light session, have breakfast, chill, might have a power nap, and then you wake up for another session later on in the afternoon.

BEN WATERWORTH: Can you allow yourself to go and see other events, though? Like, I mean, or is it kind of difficult because you're focusing on yours?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, but you still need time to zone off or zone out and relax and chill. So you definitely still have the opportunity to go watch other sports.

BEN WATERWORTH: What did you go see? What would you go and see?

ALI ABDO: I watched a little bit of boxing. I think we did... Geez, I think at one point we went and saw track, you know, not the finals, more the pre-final stuff. We went judo, seen a bit of judo. So, yeah, you know, but not obviously. In my two or three events, that's about it. In the span of about two and a half weeks.

BEN WATERWORTH: Because I find it fascinating, like, as you're saying, sort of, you know, we've talked to, say, some athletes, you know, athletics athletes, and sort of, yeah, kind of second week, but obviously they've got sort of, they're designated in some day and everything. But yeah, wrestling is always at the very back end, right? So it's kind of that focus. And obviously it was a little bit different in Tokyo when the athletes didn't really show up until just before their competition, right? But obviously during a normal Olympics, you're sort of there and prepping and everything along those lines. I mean, similar question what I asked about Sydney. Did you again go into this with a mindset of, you know, wanting to reach a certain goal? Like, had it changed from Sydney, given this was now your second Olympics, different sort of category and everything? And then how did you find you went in Athens?

ALI ABDO: Look, in Athens, I guess... Yeah, it's hard to compare because I did two different styles. You know, did I wrestle my best? Probably not. You know, yeah, I wasn't too happy with how I wrestled in Athens. I think if I want to talk about performance, probably say Beijing was my best performance. You know, wrestled someone quite, you know, reputable. It was from Turkey. And I believe he was a former European champion. And yeah, it was a tight match, you know. I was more on the offence, he was on the defence. I think he was just trying to shut me down. I mean, he did that, still why he won, but it was a really good match. Had a good performance, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which sometimes I can imagine that even if you don't win, like you can at least leave about and be like, cool, I did everything I could, I put it up to him, and you know, I'm going to leave with my head held high.

ALI ABDO: Yeah. Yeah, so I definitely had that, I definitely had that feeling in Beijing, you know. But yeah, the previous two Olympics, yeah, if I was going to be, you know, honest with myself, I wasn't too happy with my performances. Sydney was Greco-Roman, wasn't my style, even with six month preparation, it's not enough. Not with someone that's been, not against someone that's born to do it. But yeah.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which then on that qualification for Beijing, so we've obviously established Sydney, you don't make freestyle, you switch to Greco-Roman. Athens, you kind of don't make the team, but then you get called up because of injury medical reasons. So tell me, third time lucky, this was, I qualified in my actual event. Like, is that how it worked out?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, in 2008, it was interesting because we had, we had about probably one, two, three, four, five guys from my club that were eligible to qualify for the Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, we all fulfilled the criteria. But I think there was some political decisions or some political issues. Not one of us was considered. Mind you, that year, I mean, two people that were selected within Oceania, they didn't fulfil the criteria. So when they, when they raised the issue, that was dropped straight away. They were dropped. And now it's time to, I think now actually one of them was dropped, and it was time to select another wrestler. Now, that year, I was the only wrestler that basically, that performed at a level where I never got, I guess if you want to say outclassed, like I was the only one to win an international bout, like or a match or championships. But, and everyone from the team said, if anyone's going to get chosen, it was going to be me. So, I was quite shocked that I wasn't even selected. So, then it went to call of, I don't even know if it went to the, what they call cast, the court of question. I don't think it even got that far. Like just before it got there, I think they dropped the other guy, and then I was selected.

BEN WATERWORTH: So, it was never straightforward. It was never a simple case of just like, wow, geez.

ALI ABDO: But in all honesty, I did what needed to be done, and I believe without... I mean, I'm not... I mean, I myself and anyone else on the team would say, I was the best performing wrestler of the year within the team. So, but... Yeah, I don't know. You know, some people were... I think there was a political... Something politically going on.

BEN WATERWORTH: We're learning that so much here, Ali, in so many different sports about the politics around kind of selection and all these sort of things, because I guess from an outsider's perspective, it seems pretty standard. You perform to your best, you perform to the criteria, boom, you're going to the Olympics. But there's a whole lot more around these things that happen, isn't there?

ALI ABDO: But yeah, look, I was fortunate. I was fortunate enough. I made my third Olympics, and then I actually went for my fourth, so London. And London was, I was literally, I was literally not even a hand span away from qualifying. In the last match, I was winning, and then I think I got overwhelmed, and I got ahead of myself. The focus dropped just one little bit, and I got scored on, and it was too late to kind of recoup my points. And yeah, I was, yeah, it was just, I think I just kind of zoned out just for a moment, and that's all it takes.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's all it takes, one little moment like that.

ALI ABDO: It was like the person that I, I'm more than confident I would have beaten any day of the week.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.

ALI ABDO: But I definitely, I definitely pace at victory too soon, and yeah.

BEN WATERWORTH: Kind of went from there.

ALI ABDO: As I say, pedal on the metal and just keep on going. Don't stop until the whistle is blown.

BEN WATERWORTH: So from that point on, I believe you went to the Commonwealth Games in 2014. Was Rio a realistic opportunity, where you kind of switched focus and to try and make a fourth Olympic team?

ALI ABDO: No, no, I was, I think I was, when was Rio, 2016? No, yeah, I was too invested in other commitments, and I was trying, you know, you got to be real with yourself. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't try out for that one.

BEN WATERWORTH: Kind of just there. And had you, do you then retire after Glasgow, or kind of do you still compete just domestically?

ALI ABDO: No, I actually tried to make a comeback for 2018 Gold Coast.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, nice.

ALI ABDO: And, you know, yeah, and I almost made that one, but I actually lost to Jaden Lawrence.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, okay, there you go.

ALI ABDO: I think there needs to be a trilogy. I beat him once, he beat me once. No, but, no, it was, it was, yeah, fair and square. You know, he beat me and he was a good, he was a good person to fill the position. And yeah, but it was, I was actually, the next day I wake up, I was quite content, even though I lost, it was enough just to bury the hatchet and say enough's enough. Because I was only training three days a week. I was in the clinic five days a week. I had, I think, I think I had two, two kids then. So, yeah, the dynamics of my lifestyle was completely different. Training was only like, I just kind of went in thinking, my experience should be enough. You know, but obviously it wasn't, you know, it obviously takes a lot of wrestling, it's pretty physical. So you need to be physically conditioned.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which also too, at that point, you've been doing it for more than, well, more than half of your life. And of course, it's been rewarding on the aspect that you've gone to, you know, many competitions, national champion, Commonwealth Games, Olympic Games, all these kinds of things. But kind of going back to my point about how this isn't going to be your career, you need to then obviously switch focus. And by that point, you've got a family, you've got yourself a career. So it's kind of that, I mean, hard decision, but at the same time, when you feel it's enough, then you kind of know to hang up the, what do you say, the leotard? What do you call that?

ALI ABDO: The leotards, the spandex?

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, the spandex. Hang up the spandex.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, no, I was very happy and content after that, after that comp. And yeah, since then, I've just, I continue to train. You know, it just needs to be done like at 6 a.m. before the kids wake up.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah. And sometimes you just can't be getting up at 6 a.m.

ALI ABDO: Look, sometimes it's hard if you've if you've slept late, but I'm generally not too bad. I'm quite a morning person.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

ALI ABDO: These days, these days, my eyes are opening by five, five thirty.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, must be nice. Yeah, I can't say I've ever experienced that one day. Maybe I don't know, which we talked to to Jayden and Connor a little bit about sort of obviously we had no wrestlers in Tokyo, and I believe that was the first time Australia hadn't had a wrestler at the Olympics in about 100 years. It was it was something insane that that had been so long without it. I mean, where is the sport at right now in your eyes, Ali, in Australia? And sort of are you involved in trying to kind of help get some kids out there to get involved in the sport so that we can get back on the mat in Paris and not kind of have a lack of athletes at the Olympics?

ALI ABDO: I'm not too involved at the moment, to be honest. I was coaching. My line of work kind of tied me down a bit. My brother does most of the coaching at the moment, you know, a few days a week. But I was actually setting up recently just as things were opening up after probably maybe mid-year, this year due to COVID, we were hoping to open up and start running some kids classes, you know. And but yeah, it's just obviously there's been a bit of a delay, but I definitely have the intention of getting back in there. Whether it's to kind of get people to the Olympics, I mean, I've got to be quite frank and I've got to be quite honest, like we don't have the resources here to match that level or to get to that. Maybe we could potentially get to that level, but there needs to be a lot of resources or a lot of training also outside, but just within Australia. Especially now, because we before, you compete against Oceania, you qualify. Now you got to go Oceania, now also Africa. So Africa is becoming, they're progressing. You know, it's a different mindset in Africa compared to here in Australia. You know, different lifestyles. So, you know, it's becoming harder to kind of match it with those guys. So unless you're really committed, really focused training, there's a lot of competitors, there's a lot of numbers, you know, that's the only thing that's going to lift your standard. If there's only like a hundred wrestlers in the circuit, it's not going to push the standard of the sport up.

BEN WATERWORTH: And it seems, I remember talking when we talked with Connor and Jaden about sort of their process and how they had to try and get to Tokyo and all those kind of things, that it does kind of sound very complicated and that Africa angle and all that kind of stuff. I mean, is there, do you think that also is an issue in terms of it's getting more difficult for Australians to have to qualify that there are all these extra legs now that we have to go through? I mean, is that different to how when you qualified for the Olympics, that it was maybe easier back then than it is to now?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, definitely. I mean, definitely Sydney was much easier. You know, Win Oceania, that's how you qualify. Athens, obviously Athens was, he qualified through the world, I believe the world championships. So he won two matches and, you know, he done the work for me basically. And then, well, where was it? Beijing, Beijing, Beijing we had to, Beijing, what was the qualification? Still had to win the nationals, Oceania, go overseas, compete in the world championships, face in the top six. I didn't get top six. I won a match, lost a match. I think I finished, yeah, definitely finished outside the top ten. And then you had to go through other competitions. I think there's two other competitions that you have to compete at and finish top, maybe top two or top three. But we didn't go to those ones. So in repeating what you said, it was a tad easier. Now it's like you got to go to the world championships, but you also have got to go to... You have to do something. You have to finish top two in Africa. Before it was just go to the world championships. If you don't make it, I guess they give it to the best performers within the nation. But now you have to place top two to qualify.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's insane. It's just it's insane to kind of think the legs that kind of go into that and sort of how it goes around, which I guess, I mean, does that border down to they're trying to make it more competitive by kind of, you know, it's kind of like, yes, with the World Cup, isn't it, that Australia, we weren't qualifying through Oceania because we never got a designated spot. So we go through Asia to try and get more competitive, and it kind of works right. So is that kind of the thought process and how that works?

ALI ABDO: Look, I think to some degree, yes, you know, I think they're trying to filter out the weaker nations. Before it was like one person would come out of Oceania. Now it's not Oceania, it's Oceania Africa. The top two will come out. So you could potentially have two people from Africa finishing top two, and there's no one in Oceania to represent that division. So it's definitely kind of reduced our chances of qualifying for future Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which I guess then, positive side, Brisbane, I'm guessing we would get some designated slots as a host country, but you'd want to have it in the lead up to Brisbane that you're not just relying on, we've got designated spots, we'll just be relying on that. You'd want to be at a point, come Brisbane, where you've got people who would be qualifying not purely based on home allocated slots.

ALI ABDO: I'm not up to date with exactly what they're going to do with Brisbane in terms of whether they're just going to give the allocated spots to those that qualify within Oceania, or whether we still have to go to Africa. So I'm not sure, but I think it'll be fair if they keep it like Sydney, where you won the nationals, I think we only won, I think, no, I think you still have to win Oceania. And yeah, you win Oceania, you qualify, that's it, done.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, which is always interesting though, I mean, sort of talking about the crowds and everything you got back in Sydney. But I mean, it's always interesting with these sports in Australia that we don't have a lot of exposure about how that works. Because I remember, say, a sport like handball, which we're never going to qualify for an Olympics in handball outside of a home Olympics. But for those players who represented Australia in handball, I mean, it would have been an incredible exposure for a sport like that, which would get less exposure than, say, wrestling would. So it's obviously got the positives to it as well, where if I'm going to the Brisbane Olympics and I'm going to watch handball, I'm going to want to watch Australia, aren't I? So, you know, it's kind of that exposure. Which kind of will work and hopefully sort of in there. I mean, we've got 11 years, obviously, until Brisbane, so there's a bit of time to kind of build that up. Ali, I want to wrap up with a series of fun sort of questions that we do have, we kind of ask. Well, I guess one thing actually I want to correct myself on, when I spoke to Jane and Connor, I do believe I said that Australia had never won medals in wrestling at the Olympics. And I was very wrong on that. Australia has won a silver and two bronzes at the Olympics in wrestling. Now, I want to give these guys a shout out. So back in London, Richard Girard won silver in the welterweight division. So there you go, there's that one. In the heavyweight division in London, Jim Armstrong got a bronze. So good games for wrestling back in 1948 in London. And then when it came to the light heavyweight back in 1932 in LA, Eddie Scarf won a bronze. So I feel I needed to correct myself there because I don't know if I had wrestlers yelling at me going, Ben, you're wrong, we've won medals in wrestling before. What are you talking about? Know your history.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, definitely. Definitely won three medals. And unfortunately, a drought since then. We actually got closer.

BEN WATERWORTH: How close? When? How close did we get?

ALI ABDO: We had a, I don't know if it was a fourth or a fifth place, we had Chris Brown and I think even Zig Calavits, finishing in the top five.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

ALI ABDO: You know, so they were our closest since then.

BEN WATERWORTH: It'd be interesting, actually, and maybe this is something we can do for a future episode, is look at these sports where Australians might not necessarily know that we have won medals in, and then it's been a drought kind of when you look at these things. I mean, there was a lot of attention in Tokyo in swimming, for example, that we had never won a gold in backstroke until Kayleigh Mckeown. That was one of these, oh, we should have won, you know, surely. But this is like, I mean, clearly, I just went into this, oh, yeah, we've never won a medal in wrestling. But I mean, that's like a good pub trivia. Like, name the sport Australia have never won medals in, and people probably would go, oh, we've never won anything in wrestling probably, but we have. So, yeah. And might be the biggest drought then. I mean, I know we broke, with Harry, broke the boxing drought from what, Seoul, I think. So that was a 33-year drought. But, I mean, what, 1948 to 2021? What's my math like there? That's 73 years. Can't think of a sport, maybe, that we've gone longer in, from the top of my head. So...

ALI ABDO: I mean, I don't know if we've won any medals in 100-metre sprinting.

BEN WATERWORTH: I think, I actually, I think we won a bronze in one of them from memory. I remember thinking about that in Tokyo. I'm just looking here at our all-time medal tally. So, sort of our, I mean, surfing and marathon swimming obviously just happened. Judo, that was back in Sydney, I believe, we won those medals. Gymnastics was Sydney. Baseball was Athens. Wrestling, so, softball, boxing. Yeah, I mean, a lot of these sports are pretty recent. Weightlift, Dean Lucan, that was LA, so that was 84, so that wasn't too long ago. Shooting, canoeing, equestrian, sailing. Yeah, right now, off the top of my head, Ali, this would be the biggest drought, because all of these other sports, we've won medals in the last 20, 30 years. What would you be the question? There you go. That's our trivia question of the day. What is the sport with the longest drought that Australia has not won a medal in? It's wrestling. Simple. Wow. OK, then. I like this. I like some good trivia. So we're getting to the bottom of that. Perfect. Now, we always ask our guests a series of fun, sort of get-to-know-you style questions. Now, these questions were asked to Team Canada athletes ahead of Rio and Pyeongchang. And just a bit of fun. And I've actually able to get a wrestler, somebody who, a wrestler, a Canadian wrestler, Daniel Lepage, to answer these questions back in Rio. So I always like to try and get an athlete from the same sport. So I'm glad that there's wrestlers on here. And I'm going to learn a little bit more about you today, Ali, by first of all starting, who to you is the greatest Olympian of all time?

ALI ABDO: Who is the greatest Olympian of all time? I mean, from a wrestling point of view, I mean, I'd have to say the most recent would have to be the Cuban, you know, Lopez. Yep. I believe she won four Olympic gold medals. I don't know if Kyra called the name. I think... Look, I think overall, if you're going to go back decades, I mean, Hamad Ali always resonated with me, if you want to say, catching his clay back then.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, for sure.

ALI ABDO: Just his whole story, what he stood for.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep.

ALI ABDO: And his legacy, you know. Yeah.

BEN WATERWORTH: The one I always loved from wrestling, because, I mean, growing up as a kid, as most kids do, you were watching what was the WWF back then, now WWE, but it was when I liked Kurt Angle, and when he used to come out with a whole pomp and pizzazz, like, oh, I'm an Olympic gold medal. I never believed it. And then I finally looked him up one day that he actually really did win an Olympic gold medal.

ALI ABDO: His story is quite... He's got a unique story, too. He had a broken neck before the Olympics.

BEN WATERWORTH: I remember that.

ALI ABDO: He only got through because he was getting jabbed with, like, I don't know, a cortisone injection, or I don't know how many cortisone injections, just to get through the fight, or through the comp, and he ended up prevailing and getting gold medal.

BEN WATERWORTH: Absolutely insane. Is it, I mean, this is probably the dumbest question I'll ever ask in this show, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I mean, obviously when it comes to boxing, the discrepancy between amateur and professional is, you know, still similar around levels. Is there much of that kind of recruiting from sort of the wrestling, the sort of the WWE style wrestling, like, do people go, well, like, you know, do you want to be a bit more entertaining coming to the professional wrestling side of things?

ALI ABDO: I think some, I think amateurs look at that as a bit of an insult.

BEN WATERWORTH: I thought it might be. Like, that's what I'm saying. It's probably a dumb question, but Kurt Angle did it.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, it's still quite, you can't diss the fact that, you know, WWE or WWF is very, like, you got to be quite athletic. It's, you know, a lot of athleticism is required, you know? But, you know, it's all for show. It's all entertainment.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.

ALI ABDO: You get paid good money.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep.

ALI ABDO: I think that's the insult.

BEN WATERWORTH: Which I remember talking to Jane and Connor a little bit about it, which it is kind of that sort of weird aspect. It's the only sport, I think, is this way in which that you say wrestling, people automatically probably think of that, and then you've got to kind of that Olympic wrestling, which I can see the kind of insult level, because again, please, any sort of professional wrestlers listening, please don't come and hurt me. One's real, one's fake. Just to point that out, but entertainment, Olympic, Olympic wrestling is still entertaining. The first Olympics you remember watching were?

ALI ABDO: First Olympics I remember watching, and it had to be, it had to be Atlanta Olympics. I guess, look, not a real particular moment resonates with me. You know, if I have to, if I have to say what Olympic moment resonates with me, probably have to say Cathy Freeman.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep. Where were you? Were you like in the village? Did you get to go to the stadium that night?

ALI ABDO: No, I was in the village. That was before my, it was before my competition schedule.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

ALI ABDO: We were watching that on a big screen in the village.

BEN WATERWORTH: I imagine that would have been a pretty incredible experience to be, you know, that close and having all those people around you in that moment.

ALI ABDO: Yes. It was awesome. Yeah, I believe it was quite a successful Olympics, you know. Everyone was swimming, you know. It was a good Olympic campaign that year.

BEN WATERWORTH: The best ever still, as Juan Antonio said. But yeah, in terms of total medals won, it is still Australia's best ever Olympic performance.

ALI ABDO: Look, I think for me, if I was going to rate my three Olympics or the Olympic experience, Sydney was my favourite.

BEN WATERWORTH: For sure. Do you keep much of, you know, do you keep the uniform? Do you kind of keep them like in a box? Do you put them on display? Like, do you kind of keep all that sort of memorabilia that you have from your three Olympics?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I've framed some stuff that I've chucked up in the clinic. And, yeah, I've still got some stuff stored away. But I think I'm hoarding a bit too much.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's, I mean, that would be a pretty cool thing when somebody comes to the clinic and they maybe don't know who you are and all. But like, that would be, I walk into a clinic like that, and I didn't, I'd just straight away be like, bugger here for what I'm here for. Like, I want to talk to you about the Olympics.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, it's, I guess it's definitely a bonus. You know, it gives you a bit more credibility as a practitioner. Yeah, and yeah, it definitely gets attention from the patients.

BEN WATERWORTH: That's good. That's what we like to hear. If you could be any superhero, who would you be?

ALI ABDO: I think I had that discussion with my son yesterday. He was asking me what superhero you want to be. For me, I like Superman.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, perfect answer. He'd be pretty handy in wrestling, wouldn't he? Sorry? He'd be pretty handy in wrestling. A little flick done over and done with. How would the Hulk go? The Hulk is kind of a decent wrestler.

ALI ABDO: He's got the right build for it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, the anger, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry, kind of that sort of stuff. Your favourite ice cream flavour is?

ALI ABDO: I like the Choc Mint.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes, good answer. I do like Choc Mint myself, good one. I mentioned before how we kind of added walk-up music for wrestling when we did the commentary of it. This question is, if I were a baseball player, what would your walk-up music be? So let's just say we got the walk-on music, you're coming up, you've returned, you're in Paris. What's the song that's pumping out for you, Ali? You walk out to the mat.

ALI ABDO: I got two choices, and I'd have to choose one.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep.

ALI ABDO: One, I'd have to always be either Tiger.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yes.

ALI ABDO: And the other one is...

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

ALI ABDO: You know the theme song, You're The Best?

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, you're the best, the best. Yes.

ALI ABDO: Oh.

BEN WATERWORTH: See, bring it in. Come on, IOC. I'm sure they're big listeners to this show. I just, I want to see it. They're always talking about getting the kids involved, Ali. Like, that gets the kids involved.

ALI ABDO: They need to make it a bit more exciting. To get more public, I guess, attention.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep.

ALI ABDO: And public following.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep, absolutely. Throw in a steel cage, a couple of chairs. Just... Maybe not. No, I mean, sorry. Don't want to go down that route. The best nickname that you've ever been called is?

ALI ABDO: Best nickname. Geez, best nickname, best nickname. That's how you got me there.

BEN WATERWORTH: Any nicknames? Have you sort of ever had a nickname at all?

ALI ABDO: Oh, look, I've been called the silverback.

BEN WATERWORTH: The silverback. Oh, OK. Is that a hair related question do I ask or?

ALI ABDO: No, definitely not hair related, I guess. I guess that's just my physical, my physical makeup.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right. I can think of worse. I can think of worse ones for that. That's not too bad. If there was a movie about your life, who would play you?

ALI ABDO: If there was a movie, say again, repeat that.

BEN WATERWORTH: So if there was a movie, somebody made the Ali Abdo biopic, who would be playing Ali in that movie?

ALI ABDO: Who would be playing Ali? Geez, that's a good one. Who would play that? No, man, no one really. That's a very tricky question. Who would play that? Who would play that?

BEN WATERWORTH: I'm always interested if people have a go to, like if they're straight away like Dave Bautista or The Rock, they just go for somebody like that. They're thought about it. They're writing their own biopic.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, you gave me an idea now. I always used to like Goldberg.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, absolutely. There's a random movie we covered on one of our other podcasts. It's called Santa's Sleigh. And basically, Goldberg plays like this sadistic serial killer version of Santa. It's all kinds of fucked up, but it's hilarious at the same time. If you ever want to watch Fran Drescher catch on fire, watch Santa's Sleigh. It's hilariously terrible. Like, Sleigh, I think it's like S-L-E-Y or A-Y, you know, because he's this serial killer. It's really strange, but it's hilarious at the same time. One of the weirdest movies I've ever watched. I know the answer to this, because you've achieved this already. If you weren't an athlete, what would you be?

ALI ABDO: I'll say a path. Yes.

BEN WATERWORTH: Is that something that you sort of grew up wanting to do, or is it sort of you wanted to do medicine, and then you kind of just kind of like chose a field as you were studying?

ALI ABDO: No, look, I always had an interest. Like, even in, you know, like in high school, I always had an interest for hands-on therapy. You know, at one point it was physio, and then at another point it was chiropractic, because I was, I guess, I wouldn't say mentored, but, you know, I looked up to a particular practitioner. But then eventually, like, I got exposed to osteopathy, and then I took that path.

BEN WATERWORTH: And then the rest is history. Here you are. Do you want to plug your practice while we're on the topic?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, I work for my own clinic. It's called the Aversine Osteopathy out in Newport, Melbourne. I've been doing that for now, I guess, 11 years now.

BEN WATERWORTH: Great.

ALI ABDO: And yeah, still going strong and enjoying it. I'm passionate about it, so I don't mind doing it five days a week.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. I feel like I need to start this interview again and introduce you as Dr. Ali Abdo, because I can't say if I've ever had a doctor on the show before, so I feel like I need to take advantage of it. Come on, don't lie. You'd like to hear that. Like, if I was a doctor, I just want everybody, every time I walk in the room, Dr. Ben, here he is.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I look and say, stop banging, use it where you can, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: Your full name is like Dr. Ali Abdo O-L-Y. So, that's not bad. That's a good name to have. All the other initials that you have from all the degrees and everything that you've got. A very long business card, I can imagine.

ALI ABDO: Well, yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough, like, finished my degree in human movement, exercise rehab. Although, yeah, that wasn't always the master plan, but all those fields tied together really well. So, yeah, a lot of letters on the business card.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fits all together there. Your guilty pleasure snack is?

ALI ABDO: Guilty. Look, I definitely love my chocolate, but the dark chocolate.

BEN WATERWORTH: Oh, yes.

ALI ABDO: Yes.

BEN WATERWORTH: Good answer. I mean, that is the healthiest chocolate. You know, you can get away with that. Um, the most recent TV show that you binge watched is?

ALI ABDO: Geez, whatever the wife's watching.

BEN WATERWORTH: Correct answer.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, no. Um, there's a series we've been watching. I think it's called Raising Canaan. It's the add-on or part of Power, the series Power.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yep, yep. Great. And you're enjoying it? You keep coming back, so I'm guessing you're enjoying it?

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I guess I keep coming back, you know.

BEN WATERWORTH: Or the wife keeps coming back, and you just keep, you know, watching it. Yeah. All right, we'll watch another episode, sure. Um, your favourite place in the world to compete is?

ALI ABDO: Madison Square. Where I haven't or where I have?

BEN WATERWORTH: Let's go with both.

ALI ABDO: Well, yeah, I mean, Madison Square Garden would be awesome. The opportunity was there. But unfortunately, yeah, there was a few obstacles in the way. It didn't eventuate. And, um, yeah, what's really, I had a memorable experience in Las Vegas.

BEN WATERWORTH: Great. The show piece. I'm actually impressed that they would have, um, normal wrestling, not the fake wrestling, at Madison Square Garden. So that's cool.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, that was, I think it's been, they've done that twice now. Yeah, that was huge.

BEN WATERWORTH: Fantastic. I remember I went to Colorado Springs and I did a tour of the US Olympic facility and the sort of the wrestling area and was just like blown away by just kind of like the level and they had the wall of fame. I found Kurt Angle's name on the wall and kind of, it was pretty cool. Like, I think that's probably the only time I've ever actually seen wrestling in person. Um, so it was, yeah, pretty crazy. They love it there, don't they?

ALI ABDO: Oh, it's a different level. Like, once you start to see the world, the world wrestling, you start to realise, unfortunately, Australian wrestling is very behind. You know, like, I went to Japan for training camp a couple of years ago, or two, three, maybe three years ago now. And yeah, I mean, just, we went and trained out of a particular university, and just the whole culture, you know, the whole culture of sport, and it's completely different.

BEN WATERWORTH: We're just hopeful that, I mean, we saw it in the lead up to Sydney, of course, kind of the injection of funds that kind of came in so that our athletes would perform at the best of their ability come Sydney, so it's a good showpiece. So again, 11 years now for Brisbane rather than a usual seven, so hopefully we can have that and break the goddamn drought of wrestling medals. Come on. Let's hope so. Yes, what do I say, 73 years? Yeah, it'll be about 84 by that point. So yeah, bring it on. Now, I'm not sure if you're much of a gamer, but if you are, what is your favourite video game?

ALI ABDO: I grew up not... I've never been a gamer, to be honest.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right.

ALI ABDO: If you ask my brother, he'll give you an answer, but no, nobody.

BEN WATERWORTH: Do you sort of avoid the kids playing them, or are they sort of...

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I really limit them, especially now. I'm sure you're aware. Technology and kids and... You know, in some aspects, it's okay, but it's very easy becoming addictive.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I remember my nephew when he was about, I want to say three or four, when I saw him using an iPad probably better than I could, I didn't know how to feel about that. I'm like, how is this a thing? He's like so young and he knows what to do. I barely know what to do.

ALI ABDO: They're pretty good. They see the adults and before you know it, they're swiping and pressing.

BEN WATERWORTH: Accidentally spending hundreds of dollars on your iTunes account.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I definitely limit their time on it.

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah, I can imagine. Your biggest fear in life? Here's a deep question for you.

ALI ABDO: Public speaking is huge.

BEN WATERWORTH: Right, okay.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, I look, I won't jump out of a plane and do parachute or whatever you want to call it, parachuting. I definitely wouldn't do that, but definitely public speaking.

BEN WATERWORTH: Wow, so if they've ever asked you to like a wrestling conference or something like that or speaking that, you're like, oh no, I think I might pass.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, like even like, even just publicly speaking, like let's say for instance in my business, if I was to talk to a camera and talk to my audience or my followers, I really, pardon the pun, I really grapple with the idea. Like I can't, I just really, yeah. Interesting. It's very interesting. I mean, look, if I have to speak, I've gone and spoken to schools about my Olympic campaigns and experience. I seem to be okay there. Maybe because I'm very confident in what I'm delivering. You know what I mean?

BEN WATERWORTH: Yeah.

ALI ABDO: Public speaking is definitely one that makes me sweat.

BEN WATERWORTH: I think you're the first person here. I like that. It's kind of because some people will say spiders and all these heights and stuff. But yeah, it's sort of interesting to hear that and everything. I love these different answers. It works well. Last one for you today, Ali. What's one thing that you can't live without?

ALI ABDO: What's one. Well, now being a family man, it's my family members. That's a given. So if we have to move on from that, look, definitely physical lifestyle, like a healthy, like an active lifestyle. If I'm not exercising, then not only does it affect me physically, but definitely the mental, you know, mentally it's... because I grew up, it's embedded in my body, in my brain, my blood, my veins, you know, I grew up doing something every day, you know, every second day. So, yeah, definitely exercise to some degree.

BEN WATERWORTH: I feel that's the correct answer for an Olympian.

ALI ABDO: Yeah, look, I always said like, you know, friends around me got married, had kids, blew up 10, 15 kilos, 20 kilos. I was like, no, that'll never be me. That's never going to be me, you know. And, you know, three kids later and seven years of marriage, you know, I've probably put on probably five kilos, four or five kilos. Not too bad, doing all right.

BEN WATERWORTH: Not bad at all. You see, you still could compete, Ali. Like, Paris could happen, you know, just saying, like never seen. Birmingham's what? Not far away. So, you know, like get ready for that. Before let's go, Ali, anything you want to plug? You've obviously plugged your clinic, but in terms of sort of wrestling, social media, anything along those lines, if people want to associate with you or get involved in the sport, anything along those lines?

ALI ABDO: No, you know, like, you know, thanks for the opportunity for, you know, the platform, to, you know, talk about my experiences in wrestling. And yeah, I think wrestling, wrestling is a tough sport. It's not for everyone. I think we're grateful that MMA has increased the wrestling's exposure. So, you know, it's, I think it's, it's kept wrestling alive in Australia.

BEN WATERWORTH: Great.

ALI ABDO: Which is great, you know, and I tell people it's a good, it's a good founding sport for young kids, because it increases their, improves their motor development, their strength. It builds their work ethic. You know, that tenacity. Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely a, it's a good sport to get your kids into.

BEN WATERWORTH: There you go. Straight from, straight from a man who should know that. Ali, seriously, a lot of fun, great pleasure to be able to chat to you about your career and your amazing experiences and everything else in there. And best luck with everything moving forward. And let's count down those days until we're celebrating a medal around an Australian wrestler's neck, because it's been too bloody long.

ALI ABDO: 100%. Thank you very much for having me on, Ben.

BEN WATERWORTH: And a massive thanks to Ali there, great time. Dr. Ali, I feel like I should be saying that there to be a little bit more formal and proper, but fascinating to learn about that, the Greco-Roman, the freestyle, the discrepancies in kind of training for both of those as well. And where the sport is at in Australia, it would be fantastic to not only obviously get a wrestler back to the Olympics. It felt weird in Tokyo not having an Aussie wrestler at the Olympic Games for basically the first time in 100 or so years, but 73 years of drought for Australia not having won a medal at the Olympics in wrestling. How did I just jump to that conclusion earlier? Jaden and Connor saying that we had never won a wrestling medal, and I was completely wrong. So there you go. Glad we could clarify that there. But again, big thanks to Ali for his time. Plenty more great episodes to come your way. Can you believe we're actually nearly at our 200th episode? Believe it or not, we nearly are there. So you know that when we do every 50 episodes, we often do a bit of a montage episode. The best of kind of clips and everything else in between there. So that is coming very, very soon. As are the Beijing Olympics. They're very, very close, folks. I know you are getting very excited for that. You know we're gonna have daily coverage once again during Beijing. And as we always say, the real Olympics. So bring on the winters. We're so excited for those. If you've missed any of our past interviews or episodes or want to listen to them again, or you want to not miss another one that's coming up at any point in the future, search Off The Podium, all the podcast platforms, of course, and on social media, Off The Podium as well, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook is where you can find us. Big thanks again to Ali. Big thanks to everybody for listening to the show. Special shout out, as always, to Jason Momoa. And until we next week again, my name is Ben. This is Off The Podium, and as always, go left.